Minories Holborn viaduct

[Pacific231G]

Well, this kinda works. Remove the return curve board and it would conform to modular. The return curve may work better and be more compact as a double track r1 and r2 curve. Should be just long enough for a 37 and 3x mk2s in the station for when the kids are abusing some old Lima stock.

 

GWR Minories-2.jpg

 

The station could always have a 2ft+ extension for modular days.

 

3rd use is as a GWR terminus, and the styling of architecture of buildings would reflect this. Hence the turntable. Freight handling is minimal, usual Minories loco stabling stub becomes a very small goods yard, and couple of 'loco' wagons can serve the tmd area. Vehicles and anything else that would 'age' this would be removable.

 

Torn as to whether this would look and operate better as a 3 platform terminus or 2 platform with center road (would carriage sidings negate a center road?)

 

I kind of think that that the three platform version would give a bit more variety of operation though I prefer the other throat. On that You've managed to avoid any reverse curves on the "main" line which is great and with medium radius points even main line corridor stock will flow into all three platforms quite smoothly. Even on the branch there's only one reverse curse and that's staggered.

 

I like the idea of the terminus being a reversing junction for the branch; that should give a lot more operation. I did wonder whether in the space available you could lengthen the platforms,  maybe by making the two upper fiddle yard sidings single ended to serve just the "main" line via the reverse curve but you know the operation you'd be using it for. 

 

I wasn't sure about a single goods road as even a fairly small yard would be unlikely to have fewer than two. I think you could fit a second goods road into the space and that would give some scope for shunting. It could be a parcels/packages terminal rather than a general goods yard though I think the one at Moor Street. handled most things apart from coal.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Pacific231G

[Satan's Goldfish]

I kind of think that that the three platform version would give a bit more variety of operation though I prefer the other throat. On that You've managed to avoid any reverse curves on the "main" line which is great and with medium radius points even main line corridor stock will flow into all three platforms quite smoothly. Even on the branch there's only one reverse curse and that's staggered.

 

I like the idea of the terminus being a reversing junction for the branch; that should give a lot more operation. I did wonder whether in the space available you could lengthen the platforms,  maybe by making the two upper fiddle yard sidings single ended to serve just the "main" line via the reverse curve but you know the operation you'd be using it for. 

 

I wasn't sure about a single goods road as even a fairly small yard would be unlikely to have fewer than two. I think you could fit a second goods road into the space and that would give some scope for shunting. It could be a parcels/packages terminal rather than a general goods yard though I think the one at Moor Street. handled most things apart from coal.

Cheers. I think you're right, 3 platform is going to provide better operations. Point noted on the goods siding too, I'd already thought (space pending) of adding an extra line there.

 

Refrence the fiddle yard, access is from both ends so when it's being used as a module there's an extra loop for head shunt available. However, thinking about it, if the double track mainline is continued all the way round to the fiddle yard and the 3rd track was dropped, then only a single point is needed to make it single track before the minories throat (save the cost of 4 points that way ). With 3 platforms and 2 carriage sidings that's plenty of stock space for the kids, and my GWR collection is very small. The hidden double track could be isolated in a couple of places to hold 4 trains off scene. A traverser could squeeze in too potentially, just lock it in place when it's being a module. The 'length balance' for the station is then how long the carriage sidings can sensibly be.

[Flying Pig]

Here we have the plan. It'll be about 4 ft longer than the plan shows, I just wanted to get the track arrangement right. The single line represents the freight only line through Snow Hill tunnel. Once I've sketched it out full size I'm hoping to get 6 Car EMUs into the two longer platforms.

 

Looking at this, I can't help feeling that the junction with its facing slip seems a little forced.  A possible alternative would be to follow the example of Tower Pier (posts 44 and 48 above) where the goods lines are entirely separate from the passenger lines and at a slightly different level. The variation in levels adds a lot to the visual interest of what is a very compact layout.

 

I can think of a couple of ways of doing this.  First keeping it very simple:

 

 

Or, if you have the space for the approach tracks, an 'omage to the Ray St Gridiron:

 

[t-b-g]

My pleasure Tony.

 

I did find when operating Newford in its original form and another pure Minories that I wanted a bit more operational variety so for me a small goods depot would be very desirable. The extra operations with the carriage sidings created by Newford's expansion to Littleton might make a difference to that and, apart from being mainly EMUs,  would in principle give it the same scope as Bradfield-Gloucester Road. 

 

It was good to catch up with you at ExpoEM yesterday and thanks for bringing Linslade down again. It's been great to actually see Peter Denny's work again and you've done a grand job of refurbishing it.

 

Cheers

 

David

 

Thanks for the kind words! Leighton Buzzard actually needed very little work other than a clean and we have recently added some hedges to replace the original sponge rubber type that just crumbled away.

 

It is an absolute joy to have the layout and to bring LB out from time to time.

 

Tony 

[Karhedron]

GWR Minories-2.jpg

 

3rd use is as a GWR terminus, and the styling of architecture of buildings would reflect this. Hence the turntable. Freight handling is minimal, usual Minories loco stabling stub becomes a very small goods yard, and couple of 'loco' wagons can serve the tmd area. Vehicles and anything else that would 'age' this would be removable.

 

The trouble with the goods siding as drawn is that it is hard to access from the arrival line. Arriving goods would need to park at Platform 1 and then b shunted into the siding by a pilot loco. This is particularly problematic in the 2-road version as you are losing half your platform space whenever a goods train arrives which interferes with the intensive suburban concept somewhat.

 

I like the idea of the junction terminus for an out-and-back layout though. There are a couple of plans that add some scope for freight to Minories (the goods shed in the Mk2 version for example). I think that using one of those existing ideas with your return loop would give better operation at the terminus.

 

Here is a plan I came up with for adding some freight interest to Minories. You have a goods shed and arrival siding parallel to the platforms without obstructing them. You also have a dedicated freight facility located off the kickback. I have planned this as a milk bottling plant since these were common in urban areas but also quite compact. The use of slips is justified as restricted urban spaces are the sort of setting where they would be required.

 

Edited May 19, 2015 by Karhedron

[Satan's Goldfish]

I have been trying to redraw the plan with 3 platform faces rather than 2. I've also added a second stub siding for goods. I don't mind the idea of freight pulling into a platform and then a station pilot shunting wagons to the appropriate location, adds more operational play value. The way I've drawn the 2 stub sidings makes them more like van or parcels bays alongside the platform (pics when I've got the design sorted!)

 

The other thought with my design was putting the goods yard where the engine shed and carriage sidings are, and using the stubs as loco stabling, but then where would the turntable go?

[Satan's Goldfish]

Still tinkering! everyone loves a good Minories inspired terminus....

 

Still playing around with the balloon loop plan, decided i'd prefer it if it was 2 mainlines rather than a main and a branch reaching the station. The below plan isn't to scale (despite being drawn to scale!) And to make it work i've had to mirror image the Minories part which i've highlighted yellow. Mirroring it means the throat for the mainline straight to the fiddle yard still conforms to the 4 point length rule (admittedly a 5th has crept in to reach platform 3, but it just uses dead space anyway) and the TMD access from the other mainline is on the trailing line. Stabling siding is a potentially a more useful bay platform, board width pending.

 

Anywho, my issue is concerning reverse curves. The way i've drawn it puts a reverse curve into every platform but removes them all from the throat. The version highlighted red has a reverse curve on the crossover at the entrance to platforms 1 + 2, but removes the reverse curve from each platform itself. Which is more acceptable? or can someone see how to do it without any reverse curves?

 

Ta

[Joseph_Pestell]

I don't know what your constraints are for space. But if I were going for that style of terminus to loop set-up, I would want some hidden sidings (fiddleyard) behind the terminus and some more behind the TMD. So there would be two end-to-end possibilities as well as the terminus-terminus operation. It allows more of a mix of services in the style of Southport or Brighton.

 

Like at those stations, you could have just one common platform which simplifies the electrics a lot as polarity can be changed with the turnout at the platform end.

[Satan's Goldfish]

It's just a 'trying the concept' exercise at the moment, fiddle yard design will come later (along with a tmd that's more than just 3 spurs!) However, I'm planning on this potentially being UK Modular compatable with the end curve removed, so on the station part there isn't really a 'back' to hide more storage behind. I'm trying to create something small with this layout plan, max train length of a class 40 and 3 mk2s.

[danstercivicman]

Here is my latest creation:

 

Its OO Guage, BR steam MINORIES style layout replacing my previous layouts!

[Pacific231G]

Here is my latest creation:

 

Its OO Guage, BR steam MINORIES style layout replacing my previous layouts!

This is looking very neat and I like the sweeping curve leading into the terminus. Is the kickback siding a general goods yard or a specific "customer"? (In the end a kickback goods yard with two sidings was Cyril Freezer's preferred way of adding goods to Minories) You've clearly lengthened the Minories plan enough to run a five coach MU or a four coach loco hauled train so what are the overall dimensions?

Edited October 11, 2016 by Pacific231G

[danstercivicman]

Hello,

 

It's 243cm by 40cm for the throat and platform using Peco Code 100 and for the first time successfully 3mm cork track base.  

 

The curve is 36 inch and 30 inch radius and will either lead to:

 

1) Fiddleyard (cassette type) 

 

Or 

 

2) A junction to Goods Yard or...

 

2) A junction to Goods Yard and a spur to an engine shed...

 

It all depends on whether we move house or not and money (which this hobby seems to drain...)

 

I've made it all modular this time so if we do move house I can take it with me

 

 

This is looking very neat and I like the sweeping curve leading into the terminus. Is the kickback siding a general goods yard or a specific "customer"? (In the end a kickback goods yard with two sidings was Cyril Freezer's preferred way of adding goods to Minories) You've clearly lengthened the Minories plan enough to run a five coach MU or a four coach loco hauled train so what are the overall dimensions?

[danstercivicman]

Should add, 

 

I'm not sure what to do yet with the kick back siding.  It may be lengthened slightly just to serve as a storage siding or it may lead to a parcel bay?

 

Any ideas welcome

 

 

This is looking very neat and I like the sweeping curve leading into the terminus. Is the kickback siding a general goods yard or a specific "customer"? (In the end a kickback goods yard with two sidings was Cyril Freezer's preferred way of adding goods to Minories) You've clearly lengthened the Minories plan enough to run a five coach MU or a four coach loco hauled train so what are the overall dimensions?

[danstercivicman]

The curve part is about 1m by 1m, I have tried to make the curves as gentle as possible as it makes the layout more realistic.   My other layouts had very random curves and it caused poor running.

 

The goods yard can either go behind the station or in the centre of the room on a spur

This is looking very neat and I like the sweeping curve leading into the terminus. Is the kickback siding a general goods yard or a specific "customer"? (In the end a kickback goods yard with two sidings was Cyril Freezer's preferred way of adding goods to Minories) You've clearly lengthened the Minories plan enough to run a five coach MU or a four coach loco hauled train so what are the overall dimensions?

[Karhedron]

I'm not sure what to do yet with the kick back siding.  It may be lengthened slightly just to serve as a storage siding or it may lead to a parcel bay?

It depends on what stock you want to run. You could store coaches on it although personally I would take the opportunity to add some variety. Most bulk freight would not be routed into a terminus but Parcels traffic would be quite feasible. You could also have van traffic carrying goods for local shops.

 

One dedicated industry which might be found in such a setting is a milk bottling plant. Milk traffic would add a splash of interest to the normal procession of coaches and would not need to be too big. Even the large London bottling plants usually had no more than 2 sidings. The IMS plant on Rossmore Road was right next to Marylebone station and would be a good source of inspiration. The plant is on the left of this shot with its platform occupied by NPCCS. Marylebone itself is just behind the bridge.

 

[danstercivicman]

Hello,

 

Thank you for that idea and photo!

 

That's s good idea for using that bit of space, I'm planning to keep good traffic except parcels well away from the station as I'm planning a spur from the fiddleyard to a goods yard, ATM I'm having to use my iPhone for everything so can't add pictures of this weeks progress

[danstercivicman]

I'm restructuring my layout to include a milk plant (low relief) on the siding.

 

Can anyone help with stock lists for a typical BR 1965 inner city terminal?

 

So far I have:

 

1) Ivatt 4MT

 

2) Bachmann green dmu class 105

 

3) parcels rake of 12t van, MK1 bg, Guv

 

4) BR maroon mk1 rake- bsk, comp, so, bsk

 

5) three coach suburban 57ft mk1 set

 

6) rake of four ex LMS p3 coaches (btk, ck, ck, btk).

 

7) random wagons vans and 16t minerals

 

I know I need to buy milk tankers

 

But should I invest in:

 

Class 24 green

Another DMU

Standard 4MT tank?

 

Should I consider a blue dmu?

 

Help appreciated?

[leopardml2341]

Brush Type 2?

[roythebus]

I've mentioned this on a Minories type thread before; I built a Minories back in the 1960's using Ray Rippon pcb track to BRMSB standards (remember them?). 

 

I remember talking with CJF at the Model Railway Club one night, many years ago, about the loco spur on Minories. The last "loco hauled" layout for Moorgate widened lines was a simple double track with a scissors crossover, and a loco spur each side of the running lines, with the entry to the spurs directly from the platforms. This made for simple working. He designed his loco spur the other way to make layout operating more interesting!

 

Remember too Moorgate widened lines was rebuilt in the late 1960s on a new alignment and the track layout was considerably altered to that described above.

 

I worked into and out of Moorgate during my time as a secondman at Kings Cross in the last couple of years of diesel operation. 6 car short suburban stock, class 31's, nothing green or maroon by then, and Cravens DMUs. The Midland side were all DMU by then. We probably had 6 or 8 loco-hauled trains to Moorgate, and about 4 DMU workings. There was a light engine move before the first up train, and a light engine move before the first down train in the afternoon, much like the Midland timetable posted above.

[danstercivicman]

Thank you for the information, that's good stuff, I'd like to get a class 31 but they seem very rare esp in br livery, ages ago I had a BR blue airfix one, it ran very badly and had a fake wheel in one bogie!

[cromptonnut]

Thank you for the information, that's good stuff, I'd like to get a class 31 but they seem very rare esp in br livery, ages ago I had a BR blue airfix one, it ran very badly and had a fake wheel in one bogie!

 

The Hornby Railroad 31 is available in blue.

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/36004/Hornby_R3067_Class_31_31256_BR_Blue_Railroad_Range_/StockDetail.aspx

[Flying Pig]

I'd suggest the Class 24 would sit better with the LMS carriages, but would also be fine with the BR suburbans if you wanted to play at Widened Lines.

 

A blue DMU would be a little after 1965 - there's likely to be info in the Transition Diesel Liveries forum or among Dave Ford's pictures about exactly when they appeared. Look at Clive Mortimore's Sheffield Exchange threads to see how DMUs can take over.

 

You can have far more fun with parcels stock than just BR standards, BTW. There were still lots of older designs around at this time - check out this thread. The same goes for general goods stock.

[Karhedron]

Should I consider a blue dmu?

Blue livery was only a year old in 1965 and I don't know how many DMUs would have been repainted in it yet (my guess is that mainline stock probably got first dibs). My feeling would be you could justify it if you want to run it but at that date, no one would question the DMUs all still being in green.

 

I know I need to buy milk tankers

The other thing you will need for milk traffic is a pre-nationalisation BG. Milk trains always needed a passenger-rated brake vehicle for the guard to travel in and these were exclusively Big-4 designs. Your stock list looks to have a Midlandish flavour so I would recommend either a Stannier 50' BG or a Stove-R. Both were common on milk trains and are avilable RTR. If you fancy something older you could certainly try your hand at something kit built. The Photos below give you an idea of some typical LMR milk train formations.

 

[danstercivicman]

Thanks very much for that information, it's a huge help!

 

The pics are awesome!

 

Thankfully I have a Stanier ex LMS BR 50ft BG

 

I did have the Stove R from Hornby Magazine (Dapol) but it ran sooooo badly! I sold it!

 

Now I have a back to back guage and man what a difference it makes!

 

I have made big progress on the layout this week but need to jack up the computer as my iPhone pics are too big for the website

[Karhedron]

Thanks very much for that information, it's a huge help!

 

The pics are awesome!

You are welcome.

 

The good thing about dairies in the variety of buildings they occupied. Like the ones at Marylebone or Wood Lane, some were striking Art Deco buildings.

 

 

Others like the Express Dairies plant at Morden were plain industrial buildings.

 

 

For the space-starved, the greatest example is probably Vauxhall. The Unigate bottling plant was located below platform level and the tankers were simply discharged into a discrete set of stainless steel pipes on the platform.