GWML Electification

[RJS1977]

Suspect they'll leave it like the have with the Patchway tunnels

 

From 31:30.

 

Given the closure of the tunnel and the route to it from Filton triangle you would assume it's a good time to conduct some of the other infrastructure works e.g the removal of the footbridge at Pilning.

 

Yes - the last ever westbound train from Pilning left this weekend.

[Great Western]

Another IEP test run last night, I'm not sure what they're testing though - any ideas ?

[HillsideDepot]

It did several trips between Bristol and Swindon as 5X17 before heading back to [the] North Pole (according to Real Time Trains). Interestingly it runs "Wrong Line" from Swindon to Thingley East (other traffic is still using the Down Line as normal, so it's not possession related). It's booked again for tonight, so a late might trip out might be in order.

 

As an aside, someone on Face Book posted photos of the class 800s at BTM, and also the first Up London, which included original liveried 43002 this morning: nice contrast, albeit not both in the station at the same time.

[The Stationmaster]

Another IEP test run last night, I'm not sure what they're testing though - any ideas ?

 

Could be they're simply trying to see how fast it can go on diesel power - according to one of the national 'papers 'Rail' has apparently posted an article saying the Class 800s won't be able to maintain HST speeds on diesel power.  Captain deltic addressed the issue a while back indicating that the engines may have been derated on the Class 800s hence creating the same possibility.

 

The Swindon - Thingley East wrong line running might well be something to do with testing the ride through pointwork, just an idea although maybe somebody is worried they might set off the near slip just east of Bassett. 

[Richard E]

Hang on, there's an 800 doing North Pole to Doncaster via Reading and Slough (departs NPIEP at 19:37) and back tonight as well if it runs. Bristol TM leaving NPIEP at 20:53. The Doncaster run hasn't been activated yet though.

 

Both are timed for 125mph maximum, I would have thought the testing on the ECML would have shown any power deficit by now.

[The Stationmaster]

Hang on, there's an 800 doing North Pole to Doncaster via Reading and Slough (departs NPIEP at 19:37) and back tonight as well if it runs. Bristol TM leaving NPIEP at 20:53. The Doncaster run hasn't been activated yet though.

 

Both are timed for 125mph maximum, I would have thought the testing on the ECML would have shown any power deficit by now.

 

Maybe - but it depends what's being tested and where of course.  Some years back when I was involved with arranging the operating side of tests we did one lot for one particular reason on one route and another lot - looking at something else - on a different route.  And if there have been questions about speed and acceleration and I was GWR I'd want some answers on home territory.

 

But in the end the fact is we don't know what is being tested or why.

[HillsideDepot]

Just been out to Chippenham station to see 5X16, tonight's North Pole - Temple Meads test run. Although it was booked to run wrong line it actually arrived on the Down Line, at 23:09, 9 minutes early, 800002 leading 800001. It paused at the platform for less than a minute before moving off again. It was booked a 2 minute stop, but it was stationary for less than a minute. There appeared to be two people in the cab, and just one person in the train, on the first seat behind the leading cab. 800002 has most of its seats fitted, standard and first, but the unit does have cabling along the luggage racks and along the gangway. There were some tables missing, and various items on the floor in the gaps. There didn't appear to be anything connected to the cables. Unit 800001 isn't fitted out, some cars are empty, some have longitudinal benches with computer screens on, although nothing appeared to be working, but it could just be recording data, or sending data back to base. The train seemed to run quite quietly, but then departure was fairly gentle, reflecting the "10 minutes in hand".

 

So, the mystery of the wrong line working remains. Certainly the first night it ran it ran wrong line as I spotted it on the Open Train Times signalling diagram on Dauntsey Bank, too late for me to get to the station to see it. Nor have I managed to answer the "what is it testing?" question. I was hoping that the booked stop would be a "proper" stop, open doors etc, maybe someone get off (or at least stick their head out) but no. Still, I suppose I can underline them in the book now (if I had a book!).

[Great Western]

I noticed last night that there are arm chairs (office desk type) positioned at the saloon doors, but the door locked out of use.

 

The train is being driven by GBRF crew, I'd assume the other person is maybe a hitachi test person ?

[royaloak]

What's the purpose of the third light on the front of the 378s?

Its for the forward facing CCTV camera so they can clearly see what the train hits when its dark.

[royaloak]

Hi,

 

Its used for lighting the coupling when attaching and detaching units whilst I also believe it can be used for a light for video cameras for track inspection.

 

Simon

If you can see the coupler from the cab of a 387 you have got better eyesight than me, can you see round corners?

[royaloak]

 3rd rail shoe gear very prominent on both units.

All I can see is a height limiting beam, no shoegear present!

[exet1095]

All I can see is a height limiting beam, no shoegear present!

The shoe sticks out of the bottom of the beam.

[St. Simon]

If you can see the coupler from the cab of a 387 you have got better eyesight than me, can you see round corners?

 

I know you can't see it from the cab, but I was told it was for the use of station / shunting staff observing the coupling from outside the train.

 

Simon

[Budgie]

The shoe sticks out of the bottom of the beam.

Is it proposed to send these units onto 3rd rail territory? If not, why have pick-up shoes?

[Suzie]

Is it proposed to send these units onto 3rd rail territory? If not, why have pick-up shoes?

Reading to Gatwick at some point?

[St. Simon]

Is it proposed to send these units onto 3rd rail territory? If not, why have pick-up shoes?

 

Same reason as to why the first 2 South West Trains Class 707's will be fitted with Pantographs (albeit temporarily while they test it) although none of the fleet will require them in SWT service, its so that they can be tested and certified for 3rd rail power in case they are transferred at a later date to the Southern Region.

 

I suspect it is easy to build them with shoes fitted and never use them rather than not putting them on and having to try and fit them on later and great expense.

 

Simon

[royaloak]

I know you can't see it from the cab, but I was told it was for the use of station / shunting staff observing the coupling from outside the train.

 

Simon

Who told you that?

What is their level of knowledge about these trains?

What have station/shunting staff got to do with the coupling process, its purely down to the driver!

 

Signed a GWR train driver.

Edited September 14, 2016 by royaloak

[royaloak]

Same reason as to why the first 2 South West Trains Class 707's will be fitted with Pantographs (albeit temporarily while they test it) although none of the fleet will require them in SWT service, its so that they can be tested and certified for 3rd rail power in case they are transferred at a later date to the Southern Region.

 

I suspect it is easy to build them with shoes fitted and never use them rather than not putting them on and having to try and fit them on later and great expense.

 

Simon

Why would the GWR 387/1s (a follow on order to the GTR order) need to be certified on third rail when the testing has already been done with the 387/1s at GTR which already work on third rail and OHLE daily?

 

Actually that sort of answers it, these are a follow on order so will be built to the same spec as the GTR 387/1s hence the limiting beam.

 

I still havent seen a picture that clearly shows shoe gear in place on the GWR 387/1s though.

 

Further edit-

These are fitted with shoe gear, it retracts when not in use to prevent it hitting anything, it can just about be made out in a couple of pictures but it isnt easy to see.

Expect the shoe gear and arms to be removed shortly although the height limiting beams will probably stay in place.

 

Aside-

The 350/1s were a cancelled order for more 450s and so were fitted with third rail gear which was soon removed (and sent to Northam for spares) only to be required when some of them were loaned to Southern for a few months, hence a van load of shoe gear wending its way to Northampton.

Edited September 14, 2016 by royaloak

[royaloak]

Same reason as to why the first 2 South West Trains Class 707's will be fitted with Pantographs (albeit temporarily while they test it) although none of the fleet will require them in SWT service, its so that they can be tested and certified for 3rd rail power in case they are transferred at a later date to the Southern Region.

 

I suspect it is easy to build them with shoes fitted and never use them rather than not putting them on and having to try and fit them on later and great expense.

 

Simon

They are the first of a new type of train so have to be certified on all the systems they are ever likely to use, these GWR 387s are not a newclass.

[royaloak]

Is it proposed to send these units onto 3rd rail territory? If not, why have pick-up shoes?

Probably because its a follow on order to the GTR 387/1s which do require 3rd rail gear so they are built to the same spec, at least GTR  will end up with a lot of spare sets of shoe gear in a few months time.

[HillsideDepot]

 

I suspect it is easy to build them with shoes fitted and never use them rather than not putting them on and having to try and fit them on later and great expense.

 

Simon

 

I speak as an operator (admittedly of buses and not trains), not an engineer, but in simple terms it is something unnecessary which is bolted on. Anything that is bolted on could fall off. Therefore it needs to be checked for security by engineers at maintenance inspections, and by drivers at the start of every day. But apart from creating extra work it achieves nothing. So why is it there?

 

Likewise the light. If it is for coupling (I'm not convinced) why isn't it designed to switch off over a certain low speed? Again, not a rail example, but I ran buses over 20 years ago which locked the passenger doors above about 2 mph, so it's easily done. I've also noted that they seem to have a light shining at the pantograph, but its not completely clear in the YouTube clips I've seen. Is this a standard fitting? Presumably they are monitoring the overhead wire in some way, although it would be interesting to know if its just the first few trains which are fitted to check the new OHLE, or whether it will be fleet wide to detect problems before they can cause a fault as the OHLE inevitably wears.   

 

All these questions: most people will just want them to turn up on time!

[jamie92208]

As far as I know it is all about the residual value of the units when the lease expires. If they are certified/tested etc with both systems now then their book value is maintained. No doubt the gear will be removed in due course but the certification will remain.

 

Jamie

[royaloak]

As far as I know it is all about the residual value of the units when the lease expires. If they are certified/tested etc with both systems now then their book value is maintained. No doubt the gear will be removed in due course but the certification will remain.

 

Jamie

The 387/1s are already certified for both systems, you dont have to certify every unit!

Edited September 14, 2016 by royaloak

[Edwin_m]

I'd put it slightly differently.  The ROSCO will specify the trains to have 750V capability and the builder will have to demonstrate that this (a) can be fitted, (b) works and (c ) has all necessary approvals.  Actually fitting one and testing it goes quite a long way to achieving all three of those objectives.  There will no doubt be some portion of the payment which is only released on successful completion of this and other tests. 

 

It's actually in the best interests of the manufacturer to do this test as well.  Otherwise if the ROSCO moves the fleet to a DC line in five years time and can't get the shoegear to work, their lawyers will go after the manufacturer.  Bombardier can then point to the test and say it worked when it left the factory and whatever has gone wrong since is nothing to do with them. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Edwin_m

[Zomboid]

I understand that pantograph cameras are common if not universal fittings on new trains. Useful for fault finding when the pan/wire interface causes trouble and disruption.