GWML Electification

[gismorail]

A few shots of the state of play (I nearly typed "progress", but thought better of it!) at Langley Crossing, just east of Chippenham. A works compound has been established in the field here, but is rather empty at the moment.

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There seem to be some electrification parts present, but also a stack of short track panels (Hornby R610s I think). Several of the fences had blown down and the banner at the site entrance had been torn to shreds (I'll make no comment...)

The view Up

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and Down

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and Up again, but from the top of the bridge

20180101 (12)b.jpg

 

Edit: to correct spelling

That TTC is one hell of a chunky piece of steel work almost looks out of place. 

[The Stationmaster]

At least the masts are up lets hope the rest follows quickly(?)  still think a bit heavy but at least the service will improve soon.

 

Judging by progress elsewhere there'll no doubt be one or two sections wired with a couple of months or so, the others adjacent to them will follow anything between 9 months and a year later (in fact I think it might be longer than a year in the case of certain sections between Challow and Uffington).

[The Stationmaster]

Todays' score from direct observations in the Twyford/Reading area -1 out of 3 Class 800s running with the pans up, the other two were on diesel (both Down trains although one appeared to be a training train).

 

Class 387 duly travelled Twyford - Reading & return;  in both cases train gained about 45-55 seconds on dmu performance over the same distance (clear run comparison); interior quite pleasing and while the seat cushions are very firm (those with less rear end padding might say 'bl**dy hard?) the seat backs are at an excellent upright angle so overall quite comfortable for a journey taking less than 6 minutes.  The ride is interesting as there appears to be some lack of stiffness in the lateral control and in places the vertical ride was not as good as I think it ought to be for a modern train but I suspect it might be related to where you sit and possible accumulated mileage as the two trains I travelled on differed in respect of ride.  My overall impression was positive and, seat padding apart, definitely a step up from a class 16X Standard Class area (apart from those hard, but individual, seats) so in this case modernisation has delivered a noticeable and tangible advance from the Turbos which themselves had delivered a tangible advance from the First Generation dmus.

 

Caught by the low winter sun 387150 arrives at Twyford this afternoon on the 14.03 Didcot - Paddington 

 

 

Work is continuing on restoring the length of Twyford's Up Main Line platform (some decking is mow in place on the Down Main platform extension but the sun was in the wrong place to get a photo

 

[4630]

I've posted this on the Class 800 Update thread, but thought it might be of interest here too;

 

A link to a document detailing the 'IEP Train Technical Specification', which is in the public domain, has appeared on another forum.

 

I've not seen the document before and as it contains a significant amount of information regarding the Class 800, I thought it might be useful for others on this forum who may be interested.

 

The caveat, and there is always at least one, is that although the document is Issue 5 and is dated 19/07/12 and was the 'Formal Issue for Contract', there will have been some contract variations subsequent to the publication of this document.

 

So with that caveat in mind, enjoy!

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/82840/tts-redacted.pdf

Edited January 5, 2018 by 4630

[DavidB]

I had my first electric trip west of Reading today, on one of the new semi-fast 387 services. Expectations were low, as I almost always travel on HSTs on my commutes and my previous experiences of Electrostars on the Brighton line have not been great. In the event, I was seriously impressed. We covered the 17 miles to Didcot in just over 13 minutes, including the switch to the Down Relief at Didcot East, taken at the full 70 mph. Performance matched HST speeds for the first six miles, reaching 90mph through Tilehurst and 110mph at Pangbourne. Riding was excellent, including over the junction at Didcot East, where HSTs, Voyagers and (in particular) Adelantes can be decidedly wobbly. Air-con noise was far lower than in the 800s, with less evidence of fixtures rattling at similar speeds, all giving the impression of a higher build quality. All in all, a very positive experience, and a fascinating contrast with my morning commute in the other direction today, which was in HST car 42356, now nearly 46 years old having entered service as part of the class 252 prototype set in 1972.

 

David

[The Stationmaster]

I had my first electric trip west of Reading today, on one of the new semi-fast 387 services. Expectations were low, as I almost always travel on HSTs on my commutes and my previous experiences of Electrostars on the Brighton line have not been great. In the event, I was seriously impressed. We covered the 17 miles to Didcot in just over 13 minutes, including the switch to the Down Relief at Didcot East, taken at the full 70 mph. Performance matched HST speeds for the first six miles, reaching 90mph through Tilehurst and 110mph at Pangbourne. Riding was excellent, including over the junction at Didcot East, where HSTs, Voyagers and (in particular) Adelantes can be decidedly wobbly. Air-con noise was far lower than in the 800s, with less evidence of fixtures rattling at similar speeds, all giving the impression of a higher build quality. All in all, a very positive experience, and a fascinating contrast with my morning commute in the other direction today, which was in HST car 42356, now nearly 46 years old having entered service as part of the class 252 prototype set in 1972.

 

David

 

I agree absolutely about the trains giving an impression of a higher quality build than the Class 800s and about the lack of aircon noise (which I forgot to mention as well as its effectiveness)  initial impression of these sets is definitely encouraging and makes me bemoan even more the fact they'll be replaced (for some of us) by. Crossrail's miserable excuse for a train in a couple of years from now.

[phil-b259]

I had my first electric trip west of Reading today, on one of the new semi-fast 387 services. Expectations were low, as I almost always travel on HSTs on my commutes and my previous experiences of Electrostars on the Brighton line have not been great. In the event, I was seriously impressed. We covered the 17 miles to Didcot in just over 13 minutes, including the switch to the Down Relief at Didcot East, taken at the full 70 mph. Performance matched HST speeds for the first six miles, reaching 90mph through Tilehurst and 110mph at Pangbourne. Riding was excellent, including over the junction at Didcot East, where HSTs, Voyagers and (in particular) Adelantes can be decidedly wobbly. Air-con noise was far lower than in the 800s, with less evidence of fixtures rattling at similar speeds, all giving the impression of a higher build quality. All in all, a very positive experience, and a fascinating contrast with my morning commute in the other direction today, which was in HST car 42356, now nearly 46 years old having entered service as part of the class 252 prototype set in 1972.

 

David

 

The Electrostars on the BML are getting on for 15 years old now! - so I am not surprised that the compare unfavourably to the brand new GWR variants.

 

There is also the little matter that compared to the GWML, the trackwork on the BML* is deicdably ropey in places - particulalrly over junctions most of which have seen very little by way of serious upgrade works for getting on for 40 years now (life expired wooden sleepers, poor basllast condition and undelying formation issues).

 

* South East Commuter routes are well known for having lousy track compared to 'important' InterCity routes.

[cheesysmith]

The south east commuter routes have had the Pway hammered for how long with heavy nose hung traction motors in the EMUs. It's not a surprise the formations are poor. The only things left using this are the ex BR trains, as all the post BR units use gearboxes between the motor and rail to lower the unsprung masses. It does mean that when they do get round to improving the Pway it will have more chance of keeping in a better state rather than deteriorating as rapidly. The same should apply to the GE lines from Liverpool st.

 

Does one need to say the WCML and the 86s as a example?

[Northroader]

I got paid the ultimate compliment today. My wife walks into the railway loft, looks round, and said “It’s just like the Great Western electrification in here!”

[Northroader]

Looking out of the window yesterday, it looks like nearly all of the metalwork structures with register arms and so on have got as far as Swindon station. There’s earth cable up to past the Oxford road bridge, and some catenary and contact wire spans at Shrivenham, although there are long gaps here and there back through Uffington. Then there’s just the black hole of Steventon.

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

For those that are wondering about the new signs that are appearing at Didcot, here is the explanation of what they mean:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94506-class-800-updates/?p=2998295

 

Simon

[Dava]

Those expensive new electric trains look pretty naff and drab in 'GWR' green, IMHO.

 

Dava

[jim.snowdon]

Those expensive new electric trains look pretty naff and drab in 'GWR' green, IMHO.

Dava

But a distinct improvement on what they have replaced, and as a passenger I rather appreciate that. The colour is secondary, although I find it quite pleasing. It could have been a lot worse, and it isn't first group corporate purple-blue with f logos everywhere.

 

Jim

[The Stationmaster]

Those expensive new electric trains look pretty naff and drab in 'GWR' green, IMHO.

 

Dava

 

I rather like them - a nice understated livery and I have to say Mrs Stationmaster was greatly impressed when she first saw and travelled on a 387 last week (but she was not too keen on those hard seats and also accused me of stealing one of her armrests - my defence is that they are a bit narrow).

[corneliuslundie]

Probably not possible to discuss without descending into politics but I thought it was worth flagging this up:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-42733012?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/ce2gz914l5mt/rail-transport&link_location=live-reporting-story

He is MP for Powys.

Jonathan

[Covkid]

Probably not possible to discuss without descending into politics but I thought it was worth flagging this up:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-42733012?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/ce2gz914l5mt/rail-transport&link_location=live-reporting-story

He is MP for Powys.

Jonathan

 

 

The overall issue is accurate planning and costing of the scheme, then adhering to the contracts.

It seems to me that the GWML scheme was poorly planned and designed which has led to shocking overruns and cost escalations. However, the electrification is essential primarily from an environmental point of view. It is not acceptable for a country like the UK to operate 125mph diesel trains on one of it's busiest routes, particularly with murmerings about the noxious outpourings from internal combustion engines, particularly diesels.

 

The decision was made to electrify the GWML and it is in progress. Mr Grayling's decision to fit all the GW IETs with diesels was a fait accompli because there was no significant other choice apart from keeping the non Scottish HSTs a little longer and parking the 801s up until they could be used. I still believe Chippenham-Bristol TM and Bristol TM-Parkway need to be continued ASAP - bearing in mind we are told four tracking the Filton bank will be complete by the end of this year.  

 

Electrification of Cardiff ~Swansea and the Cardiff Valleys are a political football between the UK Government in Westminster and the WAG in Cardiff, but let us not follow the path of Donald Trump by his scrapping of his version of the Paris treaty and us abandoning vital environmental electrification schemes. Not only fossil fuels eventually become too expensive to procure and use in the long term, electricity is what most of our World neighbours are using, and they cannot all be wrong. 

 

There. Hope that wan't too political !!!

[Coryton]

 It is not acceptable for a country like the UK to operate 125mph diesel trains on one of it's busiest routes, particularly with murmerings about the noxious outpourings from internal combustion engines, particularly diesels.

 

Electrification of Cardiff ~Swansea and the Cardiff Valleys are a political football between the UK Government in Westminster and the WAG in Cardiff, but let us not follow the path of Donald Trump by his scrapping of his version of the Paris treaty and us abandoning vital environmental electrification schemes. Not only fossil fuels eventually become too expensive to procure and use in the long term, electricity is what most of our World neighbours are using, and they cannot all be wrong. 

 

Electric trains in the UK are to some extent an exercise in moving pollution around as most of electricity comes from burning things (albeit not diesel, and in a more efficient way than a diesel engine under a train, and of course some of our electricity comes from not-so-polluting sources). As for fossil fuels, I don't have the figures to hand, but isn't the bulk of electricity produced used in the UK still generated from fossil fuels?

 

What electric vehicles are really good at is reducing pollution where it matters - in cities.

 

I don't think swapping long distance trains from diesel to electric will make much difference to the cities they pass through.

 

Will it make a difference out in the countryside? In percentage terms, perhaps, but still well below acceptable limits I would have thought...unlike our cities.

 

To get the maximum benefit (lives saved due to pollution reduction per pound) I would have thought that subsidising less polluting buses would win hands down. 

[Fat Controller]

Electric trains in the UK are to some extent an exercise in moving pollution around as most of electricity comes from burning things (albeit not diesel, and in a more efficient way than a diesel engine under a train, and of course some of our electricity comes from not-so-polluting sources). As for fossil fuels, I don't have the figures to hand, but isn't the bulk of electricity produced used in the UK still generated from fossil fuels?

 

What electric vehicles are really good at is reducing pollution where it matters - in cities.

 

I don't think swapping long distance trains from diesel to electric will make much difference to the cities they pass through.

 

Will it make a difference out in the countryside? In percentage terms, perhaps, but still well below acceptable limits I would have thought...unlike our cities.

 

To get the maximum benefit (lives saved due to pollution reduction per pound) I would have thought that subsidising less polluting buses would win hands down. 

Fossil fuel generation is minimal. See here for live link:-

http://gridwatch.co.uk/

[Budgie]

To get the maximum benefit (lives saved due to pollution reduction per pound) I would have thought that subsidising less polluting buses would win hands down.

Where are you going to get buses running at 125 m.p.h. and more in the UK?

[billbedford]

Fossil fuel generation is minimal. See here for live link:-

http://gridwatch.co.uk/

 

 

Gridwatch shows that more than half the electricity generated comes from CCGT ie gas - a fossil fuel. And that doesn't include all the gas used for space and process heating.

[billbedford]

Where are you going to get buses running at 125 m.p.h. and more in the UK?

 

Well, there used to be 100mph Midland Red buses when the M1 was new.....

Edited January 22, 2018 by billbedford

[jonny777]

Gridwatch shows that more than half the electricity generated comes from CCGT ie gas - a fossil fuel. And that doesn't include all the gas used for space and process heating.

 

 

Maybe today it does that, but look again on a sunny, breezy day and you will find a different story - with solar, wind and nuclear generating well over half the demand. 

 

With another ~20GW of offshore wind and onshore solar either under construction, or passed the planning application stage - the figure is only going to rise. 

[Coryton]

Where are you going to get buses running at 125 m.p.h. and more in the UK?

 

Nowhere, but I'm not sure what that has to do with it.

 

Is your view that the best way to reduce pollution in city centres is to make sure any intercity trains passing through are electric and keep the diesel buses and lorries, because trains are faster?

 

 

Fossil fuel generation is minimal. See here for live link:-

http://gridwatch.co.uk/

 

I'm reading that differently from you - looking at the "this" and "last" month graphs I see an awful lot of power from gas and coal, and a significant constant production from nuclear (polluting or not? Depends on how you look at it). There is a creditable though variable amount from wind but I can't agree that fossil fuel generation is minimal.

 

It's also notable that the peak loads (and therefore peak usage of fossil fuels because we can't turn the others on and off easily) do rather coincide with when most train services run.

[Edwin_m]

Where are you going to get buses running at 125 m.p.h. and more in the UK?

You don't, but the question was about how you might best spend a sum of money to minimise environmental damage.  Specifically would there be a net environmental benefit if the spend on the IEPs was spend on reducing emissions from buses instead.  This is of course hard to assess, not least because of the trade-off between locally damaging nitrogen oxides and particulates (which are more damaging in populated areas) and CO2 (which doesn't cause local harm but contributes to climate change wherever it is emitted). 

 

Personally I feel the direct environmental benefit of electric trains versus diesel is likely to be fairly small.  Rail accounts for a small part of total emissions, is more efficient than the alternatives in terms of fuel expended per passenger-mile, and has fewer people in proximity than roads do.  New diesel trains including the 80x units are subject to higher standards which require the use of an additive.  So for all these reasons a pound invested in reducing emissions on urban roads will bring more benefit than doing the same on the railway. 

 

The environmental benefit of rail mostly comes from being able to get cars off the roads, which reduces noise and accidents as well as emissions.  It also reduces the amount of domestic aviation, which has more severe climate effects than a similar level of emission at ground level.  These benefits will be maximised if the train offers an attractive journey time, fare and level of comfort.

[billbedford]

With another ~20GW of offshore wind and onshore solar either under construction, or passed the planning application stage - the figure is only going to rise. 

 

 With a capacity factor of around 20%, 20GW doesn't sound so wonderful.

 

And it appears that further plans for renewables have all but dried up since the government has decided to reduce the subsidies it pays.