Gruffalo Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Imho, that's six/fifths impossible to shunt. You'll be constantly using the platform road to run round trucks to shunt in different directions, and the main to get from one half of the yard to the other. But if you fancy it, go for it! A 9' length does restrict what can be done, just as that also calls for tighter radii and points than would be ideal even with things arranged from a curve where possible. OK, shunting would be complex but the geographical input using Aberaeron style river in the middle leads to plenty to keep interest - maybe too much. The OP should consider how he would move stock for each operation and decide if that is workable to him. I am no expert at layouts, I just took what has evolved in various posts and drew them to scale using proprietary software so he could see how that could look / work. As I also said, it is ultimately his project and I certainly wouldn't be offended if this is discarded, hopefully for justified reasons in his mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomsontour Posted December 12, 2013 Author Share Posted December 12, 2013 Chimer i have been looking at the design Gruffalo posted and to my eye it looks okay, as to shunting, thats half the fun having a challenge, and due to it being a branch line and only operated by me, i cant see there being to many times a passenger service will clash with shunting movements. I love the river idea and now looking to incorporate this into the design, will add another factor into the layout, but also give me a nice scenic challenge, i shall have a play tomorrow morning based on the layout provided and see if i can work around it, as i really appriciate everyone taking the time to do this and help me. Its proving a lot more challenging then i first expected to design a layout. But i want to get as much of it correct as i can before i go out and buy track, which will help me save on money One question though regarding the plan, how often would an engine shed be placed at the back of a yard, as i'm guessing the loco could become trapped in the shed if shunting was taking place?? All the best Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomsontour Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 right then lads, i've had another play this morning, please ignore the very poor drawings of the river/stream and dusty road, but was a quick job, Allowed a bit more room for a goods shed, how does this one flow with the stream running through the middle and keeping the engine shed where i had it, as i think this would make a nice little scene on its own, and be a nice place to take photos, over the far right hand side i think this would be a nice area to get a bit of greenery in, maybe a small pub, farm house, or something along these lines without it becoming cluttered! By placing the station on the angle i think it helps to improve the lay of the track, and opens up a bit more space, now we come back to the main problem area as before, the shunting, will this work now, or are we going to have to do some head scratching again Once again lads i know i keep saying this but i really do appriciate all your help on this one! Many thanks Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Matt Little one. The good's shed unload platform is not big enough - the goods shed at Ashburton (typical small terminus) measures, in 4mm, 145mm perpendicular to the rails. You could swing the curve and fit it parallel to the back wall, giving you a bit more room. Now I'm no signalling expert, but the signal box might have more visibility if it were situated a little to the right between the headshunt and the station throat, straightening the headshunt a little. The rodding distances would be shorter and the visibility to the yard would be better. In Aberayon the box was adjacent to the platform, but it didn't have a bay. But as we're now down to this level it really is getting to nit picking, as you really now do have an operational layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomsontour Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 Hi John, i have taken what you have said and placed the goods shed right at the back which allows a lot more room room for the goods shed, what do you thinkm should i increase the size anymore? ?? Moved the signal box, dont know if i placed this in the right area now, but its superb how its looking as if its coming together now Was thinking abit more on the scenic side now, i could have a small road bridge covering the enterance to the fiddle yard which in turn could lead down to the engine shed, although the gradient here might be a little step?? but we are getting there now anyone else got anything to through out there?? Many thanks again Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I think you'll need to make the goods shed wider to have a bigger internal platform - as it it unloading from vans is going to be a problem. and the face of the signal box would be parallel to the main running lines For bridge/tunnel see John Darch's Clinkerford - see the pix - http://www.johndarch.com/Model%20Railways/Clinkerford/Clinkerford1.html A road bridge may be possible but I think you've already said it yourself about gradients. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary hill Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Lose the river/stream - it uses up too much valuable space which could be better used for proper access arrangements to the goods shed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomsontour Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 Have made the goods shed a bit wider and changed the sidings slightly to allow for a bit more space for the lorries, have moved the signal box xlightly too, i do have a platform mounted kit from Ratio somewhere that maybe could be used, if not a standard box will be used in the location suggested, Many thanks for the link, some lovely modelling going on there, the road over the line is going to have to give some thought too, but this is somwething that can be sorted once i have some track down And David i can see what you are saying, but the river seems to add a bit more to the layout for me, and would add something to the layout, and make photos a bit more interesting as this is another passion of mine the backscene to the left of the layout will incorporate a small town with the road appearing to move off that way, so maybe this is one way i could around the space factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I know the stream absorbs space that could be used for increased goods facilities but IMHO the layout does look significantly better with something different in the scenic department. If something was to go, I would elect to dispense with the siding adjacent to the goods platform and move the alignment of the other one closer to the river's edge - allowing more vehicular space to the open goods platform. You could achieve that by swapping the turnout that feeds that siding from a right branch to a left branch whilst keeping the general alignment of the goods shed road. Now seen the latest iteration - if you need to keep the middle goods road i suggest that you shorten it a bit further so you perhaps put in a short livestock bay whilst clearing the goods platform access? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomsontour Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 following what Gruffalo has said have made these changes, My only worry now is we are trying the cram too much in, a small livestock bay was a item i wanted to include from the outset, but i just dont want it looking too crowded, so what do you think lads are we nearly there for a track plan?? Many thanks for all the help again i really do value your help Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Matt Don't underestimate the number of levers you'll need in the box - fully signalled this may be more than you think. And of course the number of levers determines the size of the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Livestock unloading - size up the Ratio model to see it if fits. One sacrifice could the the external platform for the goods shed - looks a bit tight round that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomsontour Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 i think i'll got for a track based box then John, as with all the points and i'm guessing a few signals it will be a fairly busy box, i have the cattle dock in stock at home so shall get it out the box and see if i can get it to fit, if not, its not a biggie, but might add to the operational interest. Have printed out the track plan and had a short play with a few dominos on the track plan. Seems to flow very nicely and should certainly keep me busy operating it, i've invisioned that the terminus serves two routes, with the bay forming a push pull service to another station, and the mainline running to another. With the engine shed it will allow me to change loco where needed, again adds into the operations. very much looking forward to getting the boards started after christmas now! All the best Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I think you're well on the way there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Hope I'm not teaching you to suck eggs but, if you intend automating the points, be very careful where you install your baseboard deck supporting frames and where you locate the joins between boards. I have had a nightmare planning my framework around the need for Tortoise point motors! That has resulted in diagonal bracing which does not run into each corner but is offset with ends butted into additional blocks. I am using 9mm ply "girders" and these support a 6mm ply deck with additional end-on 6mm webs to carry and stabilise the deck where required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomsontour Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 Not at all buddy, this is why i wanted to get the track plan sorted before cutting any wood or buying any track, now i have sorted the track plan i can now sort out where the bracing will be going under the main boards and so the frame will avoid all potential hazards of fitting point motors. Something i am yet to deciede on, which point motors to use. I am still umming and arring if to go down the DCC route, i can see the potential positives from it, althougth being a one man band i can see the need for more then one loco to be on the move at once, but i do like the flexibilty DCC has to offer and the extras that come with it. plan on the boards is to use 9mm ply, i helped on a layout earlier on in the year, and it seemed very robust, yet very light weight. Loving the way this has come together very rapildy with everyones help, Signalling plan still needs working out but this is something i can take my time over as the main objective now is to get the boards built and get some track down All the best Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Not at all buddy, this is why i wanted to get the track plan sorted before cutting any wood or buying any track, now i have sorted the track plan i can now sort out where the bracing will be going under the main boards and so the frame will avoid all potential hazards of fitting point motors. Something i am yet to deciede on, which point motors to use. I am still umming and arring if to go down the DCC route, i can see the potential positives from it, althougth being a one man band i can see the need for more then one loco to be on the move at once, but i do like the flexibilty DCC has to offer and the extras that come with it. plan on the boards is to use 9mm ply, i helped on a layout earlier on in the year, and it seemed very robust, yet very light weight. Loving the way this has come together very rapildy with everyones help, Signalling plan still needs working out but this is something i can take my time over as the main objective now is to get the boards built and get some track down All the best Matt Just a note of caution here Matt - you would do well to get a signalling expert's input before starting! I am indebted to The Stationmaster of this parish (and there are several more who could have done this) for going over my track plan and suggesting changes that made it more prototypical (and actually significantly better to operate I believe). I am yet to get the signal diagram but I do have a "solid" track plan from which that can be developed. Input from such a source will also ensure you get a signal box that is of sufficient size to look the part. The old adage of "measure twice and cut once" applies here - get the layout absolutely right before cutting your frames or deck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomsontour Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 thats a very valid point mate, Stationmaster if you are out there, or any other signalling gods, can you please take a look at my plan and help me with the signalling diagram?? , i know i will have to incorporate some trap points on the way, but this can be sorted before any track is actually paid for i hope to include working signals, i have seen the Dapol ones, but might look at the finer ones about, having played with a layout with working signals it certainly adds to the play factor, although they were very fragile as hand built, but this is something i can look into. Thought i would also include a loco list that i have so far for the layout, probably far too many for a layout this size but here goes 57xx in BR black ( will no doubt become the goods pilot) 45xx in BR black 45xx in BR Green 3MT in BR black N Mogul in BR black Collett Goods in BR green, will be renumbered as 3205 as i recently got a lovely cab ride on the SDR on this very loco T9 in BR Black ( this is a kit that i have to start) U boat ( again a kit thats waiting to be started) Ivatt Tank in BR Black ( will form a loco push pull service into the bay) i would like to get a 43xx to complete the branch line scene As mentioned far to many locos for a branch of this size but will allow for some interesting operations!! Many thanks Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 You may find this bit on signalling of interest. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/3-sigs/layoutsig.htm In fact the whole site is pretty good http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/index.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I don't know if you plan a more urban location - many of these on the GW; it wasn't all chocolate-box branch termini. However, what about making the river a canal? You could justify tracks a little closer to the edge, maybe make one a wharf with canal barges alongside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 13, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2013 I'd cover over part of the river/canal and put the cattle dock next to the dead end back off the run round loop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomsontour Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 thats a nice idea Peter, but i think it will be your classic sleepy scenic branch line and Mike i have done the changes you have suggested, what do you reckon?? All the best Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Hmmm. Now neither your livestock bay nor your goods shed have really sufficient apace for good vehicle access - Mike suggested you cover over (culvert) part of the river which would restore this space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomsontour Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 the livestock bay seems to be causing a bit of a headache!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 The answer is to run the river through a culvert - your road and livestock bay then have reasonable space and you can get road vehicles around. You don't have to think in terms of 40' articulated vehicles, your era would be predominantly 3, 5 and 10 ton lorries which would be around 60-70mm long. I still think that if you want to keep the siding with the red end, it should be shorter, level with the end of the goods platform? Being frowned at now - must go and do some Christmassy servile tasks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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