The Correct Shade of Grey

[Clem]

Clem

I don't think anyone has responded to your message request to contact Pete Johnson. Canada Street appears on Kier Hardy's site  http://emgauge70s.co.uk/modelpageindex.html. Might be worth trying to contact him through that source.

 

HTH

 

Doug

Cheers Doug for the information, I'll do that.

 

 

 

Remember that BR used more than one shade of grey - a light one and a darker one... and I like the photo - but beware some of the colour prints aren't quite what they seem.

 

I will try out Halfords primer as the current varieties of BR Grey seem to vary from bottle to bottle and tin to tin.. as shown here

 

BR 16t Airfix, Parkside, Parkside.JPG

 

 but once weathered it still shows a  difference..

 

3 dirty 16t.JPG

 

Barry O

Hi Barry,

I accept what you say about colour prints, but only up to a point. I've got many colour shots including minerals and other non-fitted stock and whilst the hue can vary - i.e. a blue, green or red cast, the luminence appears reasonably consistent, assuming one looks at the non-rusted or dirt-blackened parts, and it is always of a lighter appearence than say Bachmann's attempt on their mineral wagons, more akin to the the two outer minerals in your non-weathered picture. BTW, a little bit more information on the Kings Cross picture - it is considerably later than I thought,  probably between 1959 to 1961. So for my era, it's more important to get the original shade there or thereabouts as more of it is likely to be showing  than say mid or late 1960s.

 

Cheers for the replies!

 

Clem

[Barry O]

Cheers Doug for the information, I'll do that.

 

 

 

Hi Barry,

I accept what you say about colour prints, but only up to a point. I've got many colour shots including minerals and other non-fitted stock and whilst the hue can vary - i.e. a blue, green or red cast, the luminence appears reasonably consistent, assuming one looks at the non-rusted or dirt-blackened parts, and it is always of a lighter appearence than say Bachmann's attempt on their mineral wagons, more akin to the the two outer minerals in your non-weathered picture. BTW, a little bit more information on the Kings Cross picture - it is considerably later than I thought,  probably between 1959 to 1961. So for my era, it's more important to get the original shade there or thereabouts as more of it is likely to be showing  than say mid or late 1960s.

 

Cheers for the replies!

 

Clem

Clem

 

the two outer wagons are in the lighter shade of grey specified by BR - the Bachmann and centre 16T in my photos are painted in the darker BR Grey... hence different shades of grey - and thats before the different workshops applied there onw variations.

 

B arry

[Clem]

Clem

I don't think anyone has responded to your message request to contact Pete Johnson. Canada Street appears on Kier Hardy's site  http://emgauge70s.co.uk/modelpageindex.html. Might be worth trying to contact him through that source.

 

HTH

 

Doug

To Doug,

Thank you for your link. I have now been in touch with Pete Johnson and he has kindly given me an insight into his method of getting what I consider to be a very convincing representation of BR unfitted grey on minerals and other freight stock.

 

 

To quote (with Pete's permission):

 

"For grey I tend to use Humbrol Matt 147, although the last tin I got was much too close to white and needed quite a bit of matt black added to get a shade I felt was right….the previous several tins had been fine straight out of the tin so I fear quality control at Humbrol has taken a bit of a dip lately – which complicates everything when colours aren’t consistant. I have also used Humbrol Matt 1 on occasion but tend to think it is a little too blue and dark these days. I have tried the odd pot of Railmatch, etc, but was never that impressed with the result. All that said the exact shade of grey did vary I believe, and was certainly subject to fading once a wagon was in traffic, so in 1955 many steel minerals would be virtually new and so close to the darkest the grey would ever be – but even then nowhere near as dark as some ready-to-run wagons are finished. I have never seen a colour photo suggesting BR finished unfitted stock in a much darker grey – although often grey vans look dark because of grime on the wood. Coal wagons went through washeries at the pits regularly which tended to stop the steel sides holding much dirt is my feeling."

 

I had tried Matt 147 but I must have got a similar coloured one to Pete's latest and I felt too that it was too close to white. However, I will now experiment with Matt 147 and hopefully when I find the right shade I can treat 20 or so 16 tonners at the same time and get some consistency with just the weathering providing individual interest.

 

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread so far. Hopefully, I will at some stage - when it's a bit warmer - come back with some of my results. But in the meantime, for anyone who hasn't come across it,  I would highly recommend a visit to the site that Doug referred to. It's run by Kier Hardy and features a number of layouts in EM gauge modelling the 1970s. The standard of modelling is outstanding and well worth a visit on a regular basis to give your inspiration a boost!

 

Clem

[45568]

Couple of local P.O.wagons in my take on late '50's condition Clem.

Cheers,

Peter C.

[Clem]

Couple of local P.O.wagons in my take on late '50's condition Clem.

Cheers,

Peter C.

 

Hi Peter,

 

Very nice indeed!  I've just started a few 7-plankers myself. I find it quite rewarding and enjoyable to weather the 7 and 8 plankers. I'm going to need at least 100 on my layout as it's main purpose for being built was to serve the East Mids collieries. 

 

I think you've done a very skilful job. I particularly note that the lettering is very worn in a number of places , giving the impression of exposure to the elements of the paintwork and of course the residual dirt around the strapping always gives a realistic feel. Did you use cotton buds and T-cut for lettering wear? I also like your general weathered wood look - it definitely looks grainy in places.

 

 

Here's my latest effort. Still got to sort the transfer decal film out (either microsol or white spirit carefully applied to dissolve it) after which it will be finished.

 

I think most of my PO wagons will have lost there lettering pretty well entirely like this example although I will leave some remains of lettering on just a few. This is as a result of looking through a lot of photos of the period I'm modelling for the area I'm modelling and finding very little evidence of the previous liveries. I know in some cases wooden PO wagons were painted unfitted grey by BR after nationalisation but I think this was the exception rather than the rule and in many cases the old livery was either painted over with any paint available (sometimes black) or just repaired away with untreated planking. It's a shame that there aren't more colour photos available of the period (1955-ish).

 

Happy New Year

 

Clem

 

 

 

 

[45568]

G'day Clem,

T-cut would be nice! We cannot get it here, bit of a pest when you see all the modelling articles which advise using, "a little T-cut on a cotton bud and... remove decals, restore shine etc."!

No, I have used a fibreglass pencil to remove lettering, it also seems to 'grain' the wood. Where there is lettering on strapping, overpaint or use a 'sharpie' or similar to cover up, ( which I haven't done on Snibston'). Replacement planks are just painted in a natural wood colour, overpainting the lettering. hint, make sure you rub lettering off overpainted planks beforehand, it will show through! Add the white 'end-door' line to the strapping as well.

The underframes are sprayed with any of several Tamiya brown colours, moving the wagon to ensure the wheels get uniformly sprayed. The wagon is then painted with a dark grey/brown mix of gouache, which when dry, is wiped off again with a damp cloth over the fingertip, ensuring it stays in the planking and around strapping. The whole wagon is then misted over with a VERY fine spray of Tamiya TS1 red/brown, which seems to dull the whole effect, (this last is optional).

The Suncole wagon represents an attempt to show patchpainting of grey for numbers and other markings. I have found this weathering of PO wagons to be quite fun, and try to keep it to collieries that are local to Notts./S.Yorks. I would love Bachmann to do Blidworth, Newstead, Pinxton! TMC have Annesley, but only in packs of three.

As a small boy in the 1950s, my gran lived in (old) Blidworth. My dad was brought up there, and when we visited he and I would walk up to the colliery and then along the road adjacent to the sidings. The transition to 16t steel minerals, all new, seemed very quick, it was probably a year or two though. Then again, a lot of blidwoth coal went to the railways, such was the quality!\

Cheers from Oz, where it was 35C in the train shed at 12.00.

Peter C.

[Clem]

G'day Clem,

T-cut would be nice! We cannot get it here, bit of a pest when you see all the modelling articles which advise using, "a little T-cut on a cotton bud and... remove decals, restore shine etc."!

No, I have used a fibreglass pencil to remove lettering, it also seems to 'grain' the wood. Where there is lettering on strapping, overpaint or use a 'sharpie' or similar to cover up, ( which I haven't done on Snibston'). Replacement planks are just painted in a natural wood colour, overpainting the lettering. hint, make sure you rub lettering off overpainted planks beforehand, it will show through! Add the white 'end-door' line to the strapping as well.

The underframes are sprayed with any of several Tamiya brown colours, moving the wagon to ensure the wheels get uniformly sprayed. The wagon is then painted with a dark grey/brown mix of gouache, which when dry, is wiped off again with a damp cloth over the fingertip, ensuring it stays in the planking and around strapping. The whole wagon is then misted over with a VERY fine spray of Tamiya TS1 red/brown, which seems to dull the whole effect, (this last is optional).

The Suncole wagon represents an attempt to show patchpainting of grey for numbers and other markings. I have found this weathering of PO wagons to be quite fun, and try to keep it to collieries that are local to Notts./S.Yorks. I would love Bachmann to do Blidworth, Newstead, Pinxton! TMC have Annesley, but only in packs of three.

As a small boy in the 1950s, my gran lived in (old) Blidworth. My dad was brought up there, and when we visited he and I would walk up to the colliery and then along the road adjacent to the sidings. The transition to 16t steel minerals, all new, seemed very quick, it was probably a year or two though. Then again, a lot of blidwoth coal went to the railways, such was the quality!\

Cheers from Oz, where it was 35C in the train shed at 12.00.

Peter C.

 

Hi Peter,

I love it how everyone spreads their ideas and techniques on this forum. It leads to better modelling all round. I've used fibre glass pencils myself before using T-Cut - the graining effect is a clear bonus! I have collected some wagons here that I'm sure you'll find interesting. I've not seen a Blidworth but my dad managed Wollaton and Clifton and was undermanager at Babbington. Previous to that he worked at Linby amongst other collieries. I recently came across his entire work record which included his starting date, going down the pit at 14 years of age in 1925!

 

I don't know whether you can still get them but the two local model shops in Nottingham -  Gee Dee and Sherwood Models -  commissioned quite a few local colliery wagons from Bachmann. I can't remember who did what but here's a picture of one's I collected at the time. These are definitely NOT for the weathering treatment!! They prettty well represent the pits my dad worked and managed and so are a bit special to me. My guess is that if you contacted the two shops (they advertise in the modelling magazines and on t'internet) they may have some left but if not may reserve one for you if any came in second hand. Not sure what it would cost in shipping out to Oz.  It's a grim, grim winter day with no light here, so the available light photo is a bit unsharp - sorry about that . 

 

BTW your remark about 35C in the trainshed fooled me for a time. I was trying to think how Peterborough Spital Bridge was relevant until I clicked you were talking temperature lol!

 

Cheers for now

 

Clem