Bluebell Railway news

[jetmorgan]

I'm trying to find out how long the B12 & 8F are staying at the Bluebell. I won't be able to get to the Giants of Steam weekend so was thinking about the following Sunday or the Sunday after...weather dependent. So when are both locos going back home?

[Dan Hamblin]

I'm trying to find out how long the B12 & 8F are staying at the Bluebell. I won't be able to get to the Giants of Steam weekend so was thinking about the following Sunday or the Sunday after...weather dependent. So when are both locos going back home?

Departing next week I believe, so this weekend is the only chance to see them in action.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

[edcayton]

Has the extension to EG generated much extra traffic? The couple of times I have been there I saw no evidence of passengers going directly from NR to the Bluebell.

 

Ed

[jetmorgan]

Departing next week I believe, so this weekend is the only chance to see them in action.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

Thanks Dan...bit of a bummer but will have to live with it...next time I'll have to go down the week before.

[Neal Ball]

Has the extension to EG generated much extra traffic? The couple of times I have been there I saw no evidence of passengers going directly from NR to the Bluebell.

 

Ed

Loads. I haven't got the stats to hand, but EG is as important as the Park to the railway. I suspect we could do with a bigger station to better occupy passengers when they are waiting for the next train.

[jetmorgan]

Loads. I haven't got the stats to hand, but EG is as important as the Park to the railway. I suspect we could do with a bigger station to better occupy passengers when they are waiting for the next train.

Just a bit of out of the box thinking...rather than a bigger station to occupy the passengers waiting for a train, why not run a few extra trains. But not the full length of the railway...a shuttle service from EG to either Kingscote or more logically Horsted Keynes. So the passengers aren't waiting around for so long and you get them to somewhere that does have more going on.

 

Granted this will make more use use of your slim loco and rolling stock resources so this would be a very long term plan. But with all the new build engine projects going on, including the new build Atlantic on the Bluebell...it's not beyond the realms of possibility to have new build tank engines for just such a purpose. Some while ago when the Atlantic project was looking around for ideas for a future new build project. I did make the suggestion that rather than build one larger locomotive, they build a small batch of smaller tank engines, then off that batch they can sell some of them to other preserved railways or loan them out to help recoup their own costs.

 

So could be beyond the realms of possibilty for perhaps a pair of new build LBSCR D1 0-4-2's to be running between EG & Horsted Keynes on a shuttle service with 2 or 3 coaches each...perhaps even with new build LBSCR coaches...and what about even a new build LBSCR push pull set.

[Zomboid]

What you're suggesting is a more frequent service. If it would increase passenger numbers it might be worthwhile, but steam trains are very expensive to run.

Having stuff at EG which would be an attraction in itself ought to be cheaper to run and could have a gift shop/cafe...

[Gwiwer]

Having stuff at EG which would be an attraction in itself ought to be cheaper to run and could have a gift shop/cafe...

 

There's that track-bed off towards Three Bridges ........  

 

But seriously.  I don't think the Bluebell has track capacity for a shuttle at the EG end.  Kingscote loop is required for charters, dining specials and other occasional non-timetabled crosses meaning none of the above could operate if the second platform was required by an East Grinstead shuttle.  Then there's the cost factor - would it generate revenue in excess of costs?  Potentially not.  And would it require another steam loco to be fired and crewed?  Or would it become a (contentious) non-steam operation?

[Zomboid]

Google earth suggests that there's really no space to do anything at all at EG. Not without building on the car park, which is probably not a winner. Not really sure what could go there anyhow, what does the railway lack that might prove an enhancement? Can't think of much with a railway theme - a CCT with a model railway in it? A miniature railway? (Where would one of those run?) With the best will in the world, those would kill about 10 minutes each. They're probably better off advertising which Southern trains provide a good connection so people don't have to stand around in the weather for an hour whilst nothing happens.

[The Stationmaster]

There's that track-bed off towards Three Bridges ........  

 

But seriously.  I don't think the Bluebell has track capacity for a shuttle at the EG end.  Kingscote loop is required for charters, dining specials and other occasional non-timetabled crosses meaning none of the above could operate if the second platform was required by an East Grinstead shuttle.  Then there's the cost factor - would it generate revenue in excess of costs?  Potentially not.  And would it require another steam loco to be fired and crewed?  Or would it become a (contentious) non-steam operation?

 

Judging by their timetable for 24-27 October (a two train service) I don't see how they could fit in a shuttle from East Grinstead to Kingscote without use of a second platform, or some sort of shut-in siding, at East Grinstead.

 

But of course apart from the resource issue - of a fully crewed additional train in service - what exactly would it achieve?  The two train service gives a train from East Grinstead at roughly a 70 -80 minute interval and there is something to keep folk occupied if they have to wait a while for the next train (although not as much as at certain other stations of course).   And for some people a short trip might amount to all they'd be happy with so they will expect it to be at a 'bargain' fare - so higher costs will not offer a good revenue return.

[PenrithBeacon]

Has the extension to EG generated much extra traffic? The couple of times I have been there I saw no evidence of passengers going directly from NR to the Bluebell.

 

Ed

My understanding is that before the EG extension footfall was decreasing year on year. When the EG extension was opened footfall increased dramatically but has since declined. Whether it continues to decline I can't say.

 

Regards

[60526]

I don't think that there was a trend that "footfall" was decreasing before they reached EG, I read in Bluebell News a while ago that after the initial surge coming through EG that numbers would settle down but like all preserved railways you have got to have something to make the trip worthwhile apart from just the steam rail journey. Went today and was impressed by both the 8F and B12, together with the Bluebells Std5, Q, S15 and the H doing station duty at SP. I thought £3.15 for a bacon butty and a cup of tea on the 9:10 SP departure was good value and it tasted like bacon as well. Got off at Kingscote to see the Q start running the freight south, not sure what it was but the first open wagon in the train did not have a floor? Visited the carriage works at HK for a guided tour, they had 3 post 1948 Bullied coaches running in the service train and they are well on with re-restoring a Southern Bullied composite in the works, it's no wonder they rot, the coach is now 69 years old and were only design for about 20, a sheet metal floor with metal brackets to take the side wooden frame. There was also a wooden Lego kit in there that in reality is the early stages of Pullman brake No.54's restoration to a first brake diner with wheelchair access. It's amazing to see the woodwork and how these things were made including earlier mods. Also wet out the side door for a view of the new carriage storage shed, work going on with drainage here before ground membrane is put down and they start to lay track, but there is lots of other track work to keep the guys busy with at the moment. Mention was made earlier of the Atlantic project and specifically it's building, when it is finished why don't they help out some of the other Bluebell loco groups and provide clean and covered accommodation for say the class P 27 and especially the group doing the Std class 2 conversion. I can remember a while ago that its wheels were sitting alongside the chassis but straight on the ash around the area, it must be a joke at times working on the chassis. If not these then if they are looking for something old, why not the railways own 1877 Manning Wardle Sharpthorn, in looking around the goods yard at Kingscote I came across what looked like it's cab front and roof in a wagon, I didn't see the loco but assumed that it was behind the coaches on pltfm 1 at HK somewhere. North London Tank?

 

 

 

[cromptonnut]

Never understood how "non Southern" steam locos on the Bluebell seem acceptable on the simple basis it's steam, yet perfectly legitimate Southern diesels like a 33, 73, Thumper etc are considered "inappropriate" because they never ran on the line when it was open.

[60526]

Why do you keep on with this constant having a go at the Bluebell because you think that it doesn't want Diesels, there are others like me who have a broad approach which is not just steam and are fed up with it, you have a go at any preserved railway and your having a go at the volunteers and that is not on. You have to realise that a lot of the older volunteers have been there a long time, some for over 50 years, things can't change overnight, the railway has enough on it's plate with the existing ongoing projects stretching resources and finances. My comment about the B12 was a tribute to the team on the North Norfolk Railway who keep this loco in ticket and keep it restored and running because it is one of a kind, does inside cylinder 4-6-0 mean anything because I can't think of another ex BR one working in the UK,  it was good to see it down South, it's 88 years old, it's a lovely looking engine, was well turned out and sounded on song. The 8F for the same reasons, not as old but this was an ex Barry scrapyard loco and if you do not appreciate this then I give up. There was a resident 33 at HK when and after the EG extension was being done, did you ever look at it up close, it wasn't that good, rust etc, the engine was missing and the exhaust at times looked like a steam loco. The point is that the Bluebell has been offered Diesels before, including a Thumper, but they needed restoration, so with all that is going on with limited space as well, how does that add up. If you look back in this thread you'll see photos I took of the Deltics at the Bluebell, a terrific weekend, I'd look forward to say a Warship/Western/Hymek weekend. Anyhow, for those from the South who don't know what an 8F from outside our area is and never run on the line as far as I know, here is a couple more photos.

 

 

 

 

[Torn-on-the-platform]

I wholeheartedly agree with 60526. The Bluebell have been warming to diesels but if you want to make a change - get involved. Complaints about the Bluebell's 'anti-diesel' policy are becoming tiresome and decreasingly relevant. The 33 and a 73 have both pulled trains on the Bluebell and they now cater for diesel enthusiasts for a weekend each year. The rest of the time they cater largely for non-enthusiasts who would, in general, prefer to see a steam locomotive. Granted, many will happily sit behind a diesel but steam will always be the more popular choice for Joe Public. There are plenty of other places to enjoy heritage diesels, so I don't see why it offends people that the Bluebell doesn't embrace them.

 

I didn't think that the 33 looked too tatty on the Bluebell, but I've seen it more recently at Okehampton and it really is in an externally sorry state.

 

With regards to non-native steam power, half the point of a gala at a preserved line is to mix things up and provide extra interest. Providing only BR standards and Southern motive power every year would surely see gala footfall suffer, as the Bluebell can provide that kind of spectacle on a normal operating weekend with its own locomotives. This weekend's gala looks excellent. The B12 is a stunning locomotive and the 8F I think is a slightly more interesting guest than OC as it has visited before, albeit very briefly.

[Gwiwer]

One other issue with East Grinstead.

 

Unless things have changed since planning consent was granted then legally the station is not a "station" but a "stopping place."  This was what could be got through for a very restricted site which the Bluebell was rather lucky to have got at all.  It might have gone under a supermarket or houses for example, or at least car parking / access roads.  

 

There are constraints as to what can be done and what can be provided there but it is at least handy for a fair-sized town centre if you find yourself with a long wait.  Which cannot be said of any other Bluebell station.  HK and SP have visitor attractions which form part of the working railway.  EG might never have that.  But there are at least alternatives to a wait in the cold / rain / hot / sun with minimal (though more than there was at first) shelter.

[cromptonnut]

Not once have I criticised any volunteers at the Bluebell.

 

A token "diesel gala" - which does well - does not change the general anti-diesel sentiments that have affected the railway for years.

 

But I'm not involved, so I guess I'm not allowed to have an opinion.

[60526]

Everyone can have an opinion,but the point made was that in having a go at the Bluebell you are having a go at the volunteers,without the volunteers you do not have a railway, Who owns the 09 shunter down at SP?  Answer - volunteers, so its your personal view about anti-diesel sentiments. A resident green JA or 33 could be interesting, but I can't see what the noverty is when both 33's and 73's can still be seen on the mainline. I've still to see 33029 or D6547, but last time I saw Slim Jim 33207 it sounded really good for a 50+ year old diesel loco, somebody must have spent a fair bit of time looking after and maintaining that.

[cromptonnut]

The volunteers do a fine job on any railway.

 

It'll be the armchair members, who pay their subs and do nothing else but complain about diesels that are the problem.

 

But time will eventually catch up with them and be replaced by more forward thinking people who can accommodate both happily.

[BR-Green]

Why do you keep on with this constant having a go at the Bluebell because you think that it doesn't want Diesels, there are others like me who have a broad approach which is not just steam and are fed up with it, you have a go at any preserved railway and your having a go at the volunteers and that is not on. You have to realise that a lot of the older volunteers have been there a long time, some for over 50 years, things can't change overnight, the railway has enough on it's plate with the existing ongoing projects stretching resources and finances. My comment about the B12 was a tribute to the team on the North Norfolk Railway who keep this loco in ticket and keep it restored and running because it is one of a kind, does inside cylinder 4-6-0 mean anything because I can't think of another ex BR one working in the UK, it was good to see it down South, it's 88 years old, it's a lovely looking engine, was well turned out and sounded on song. The 8F for the same reasons, not as old but this was an ex Barry scrapyard loco and if you do not appreciate this then I give up. There was a resident 33 at HK when and after the EG extension was being done, did you ever look at it up close, it wasn't that good, rust etc, the engine was missing and the exhaust at times looked like a steam loco. The point is that the Bluebell has been offered Diesels before, including a Thumper, but they needed restoration, so with all that is going on with limited space as well, how does that add up. If you look back in this thread you'll see photos I took of the Deltics at the Bluebell, a terrific weekend, I'd look forward to say a Warship/Western/Hymek weekend. Anyhow, for those from the South who don't know what an 8F from outside our area is and never run on the line as far as I know, here is a couple more photos.

 

48624_SP8 Web.JPG

 

48624_SP7 Web.JPG

 

48624_SP9 Web.JPG

 

48624_KCOTE01 Web.JPG

Well said could not put it better myself…

[45669]

I went to the Bluebell Gala last Sunday (by train to East Grinstead!) and have now put the first selection of pictures on Flickr.  If anyone would like to have a look, this is the first one in the Photostream : 

 

RD14048.  B12 8572 at Sheffield Park. by Ron Fisher, on Flickr

 

Alternatively, they can also be found in this album :

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/train-pix/albums/72157675849049316

 

Hope they're of interest.

 

Incidentally, having the B12 there was a major incentive to visit; it's a long way to Norfolk! 

Edited November 4, 2016 by 45669

[PenrithBeacon]

8F Class locos did run on the Southern indeed a batch was made at Eastleigh. I can remember seeing one at Clapham Jc in 1964.

 

Regards

[Zomboid]

it's a long way to Norfolk!

That's true if you're starting from Suffolk, to be fair.

[Neal Ball]

Oh dear!

 

Sorry 60526 the general feeling at the railway is that we do not want regular diesels on the line. It's not a case of being offered a Thumper and others and they were refused on the basis of too much restoration. Specifically the Thumper went to a membership vote and the answer came back as NO.

 

As for Cromptonut criticising the volunteers - that hasn't happened in all the time he and I have corresponded in this thread. So don't know where 60526 got that from either.

 

On another matter if anyone would like to raise funds for the Bluebell the annual track trek is the weekend after next, giving everyone the opportunity to walk the line from EG to the Park. Sadly I've got a dodgy foot so can't make it.

 

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/funding/fftf/

 

With the suggestion of sponsoring Deborah: https://mydonate.bt.com/fundraisers/deborah2016tracktrek

Edited November 6, 2016 by Neal Ball

[The Stationmaster]

8F Class locos did run on the Southern indeed a batch was made at Eastleigh. I can remember seeing one at Clapham Jc in 1964.

 

Regards

 

And 48624 was actually built nearer to the Bluebell Railway than some of the engines which run on the line regularly and are based there (it was built at Ashford)