hayfield Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 I have been finishing off fitting some Rabbit turnout motors on Exactoscale adapter bases. This is the first of 2 baseboards which has 3 motors fitted. The dropper wires have been fitted and waiting for the DCC buzz bars (or what ever they are called) This is a close up of the topside, the underlay needs replacing between the sleepers and I am tempted to suggest that the tails are not cut but will be hidden by a plastic tie rod, I have found them quite a challenge to set up, and yet to think of a better way of doing it. Still they are there now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted July 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 20, 2014 A 30-minute video showing the assembly of a kit for a German 1:9 turnout in Proto87. The "timbers" are steel: The kit is also available in standard H0. Cost is 180 Euros (about £140): http://www.rst-modellbau.de/rstshop/index.php/gleisbau/weichen.htmlMartin. (no connection) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 The "timbers" are steel: Steel in the prototype but plastic in the model! It does look rather nice. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Flangeway gauges for 00-sf Did anyone have any luck finding a source of 1mm thick metal strip for these, as mentioned on a post a few pages back? I have been scouring hardware shops (looking at different fitting/ fixtures etc) and Radio Control Model shops, with no luck. However, I approached someone on the forum who produces gauges for 0 gauge to see if they could produce these, and guess what .... They already do! The secret is they are intended for S7, which also uses a 1mm flangeway gap. Eagerly awaiting the arrival of these! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted July 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2014 Did anyone have any luck finding a source of 1mm thick metal strip for these, as mentioned on a post a few pages back? For our purposes a 40 thou gauge is near enough (1.016mm). You can make that using spark-plug feeler gauges by using the 25 thou and 15 thou feelers together. An inexpensive set of feeler gauges should be available from most car accessory places. See: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DRAPER-36174-10-BLADE-IMPERIAL-FEELER-GAUGE-SET-GUAGE-WAS-73970-/161245792860 Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted July 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2014 I've used a set of Sykes Pickavant feeler gauges to do the flangeway gaps since I started hand building points. great for straight crossings as you can make sure the knuckle lines up with the nose of the V - not so good on curviform crossings, ask me how I found out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I do have feeler gauges - and understand how these could be used - just think it would be easier using flat metal one piece strip after using several methods of holding various bits and pieces together with blu-tack etc! For our purposes a 40 thou gauge is near enough (1.016mm). You can make that using spark-plug feeler gauges by using the 25 thou and 15 thou feelers together. An inexpensive set of feeler gauges should be available from most car accessory places. See: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DRAPER-36174-10-BLADE-IMPERIAL-FEELER-GAUGE-SET-GUAGE-WAS-73970-/161245792860 Martin. I've used a set of Sykes Pickavant feeler gauges to do the flangeway gaps since I started hand building points. great for straight crossings as you can make sure the knuckle lines up with the nose of the V - not so good on curviform crossings, ask me how I found out I do have feeler gauges - and understand how to use them - it just seems simple to use a straight strip of metal after using blu-tac to hold various bits and pieces together! And yes - this won't work on curves! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Oops - what happened there! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 I am certain either Eileen's or Hobby Holidays have some 1 mm thick flat bar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I am certain either Eileen's or Hobby Holidays have some 1 mm thick flat bar. Eileen's doesn't Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adew Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Fascinating thread. Thanks, Hayfield, for starting it - and to those who've taken up his challenge and shown what they've achieved. Very inspiring. However, I have a no doubt stupid question. All these examples involve soldering the rails. What about C&L or Exactoscale "Easy Build" kits which use plastic? Are these actually easier to use for a novice track builder? If it all goes pear shaped, is it more difficult to rectify gauge errors with this type of kit? I'm about to throw myself into the deep end of building a small P4 or EM (haven't decided yet) layout, hence the question. Thanks for any insights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 If it helps, I am a novice and have just built my first 3 kits, I used the C&L Plastic sleepered "point in the bag" kit and had no problem, you will need to use low melt solder though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayfield2 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Ade Not a stupid question, with the dearer C&L kit the common crossing is ready built, you just thread on the chairs and stick them to the sleepers with solvent. The tiebar is soldered to the switch rails with normal solder, you can use low melt but it takes much longer to solidify. I do not fit the slide chairs around the tiebar until I have soldered the blades to it as the heat leaves ridges in the plastic sleepers. The other area I solder is a piece of wire between the stock and switch rail. Nothing other than lots of flux so I cane go in and out with the soldering iron as quickly as I can (a second or two that's all) so nothing is damaged. Just practice, like soldering dropper wires to rails in plastic flexi track The Exactoscale kit is just glue together as all the parts that need soldering are prebuilt. BUT its in P4 only As you can see I build up the common crossings prior to building the turnout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 low melt solder Low melt solder is the 70 degree (or 100 degree) stuff meant for whitemetal and not suitable for rail IMHO, are you really using low melt or is this a terminology issue, the 145 degree solder would be appropriate. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayfield2 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 The reason why I don't use it, is it stays liquid for far too long.Do I take it from your reply its too soft (or something else for rail? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 It was 37114 who stated that Lowmelt should be used, I was trying to find out what he meant by Lowmelt. C&L/Carrs have a range of solders with different melting points, and it may well be helpful to use one with a lower temperature than the one they use for their pre-soldered crossings, I think this point is mentioned on their webpages. But none of these are what is normally described as Lowmelt, which has a much lower temperature again and would not be expected to make a firm joint with the hard metals used for rail. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
will5210 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I thought I'd join in as I've had this old SMP Y point kit lying around for a while (since Manchester show last year actually, when I bought it for £3) I thought a Y might be too complicated for a first attempt, so I printed off a B6 with templot & cracked on. Construction wasn't completely straight forward. I really need another roller gauge & a pair of check guages but I've been holding back as I'm still undecided between OO-BF, OO-SF or even EM. I followed Gordon S's assembly method for the most part, with Brian Harrap's Vee making method & more than a few bits of info I've gleaned from Hayfield's useful threads. It isn't pretty & it'll never be used on a layout, but It seems to work & I will wire it up & connect it to a tortoise on a little test track to practice ballasting a few other bits. DSC02086 by will5210, on Flickr Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayfield2 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Will Looks fine for a first attempt, I have enlarged it and other than a couple of gaps looking a bit large (that might just be the photographic angle) looks very good Many of us cut our teeth on SMP kits, even using the flat bars they supplied as gauges. Roller gauges improved the build quality, and the flat bars were the correct thickness to set the wing and check rails. A pair of roller gauges do make life easier, as do check rail gauges but these are a nice to have. For 00 I believe a wing rail gauge is the next best investment after roller gauges, as I have built 00 (though it may have been 00sf) gauge turnouts which work very well when being tested before check rails have been fitted. Y points are just as easy to build as normal points. BUT you must put the set (bend) in both rails, as both are curved. The photo is not clear if you have put the set (bend) in the curved stock rail just before the switch rail tip. Templot plans are very useful in showing both the set and the length of planning on the switch rails. A very good start, and I guess after building it there will be a few things you would do differently. I am very impressed that you are combining different build methods from several sources. Just keep on experimenting, that's the way you learn. Soon you will be passing tips on to the rest of us. I must have a go at Brian's method of building a Vee, I still believe that for copperclad construction the simple Vee build is best in 4 mm scale though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
will5210 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Will Looks fine for a first attempt, I have enlarged it and other than a couple of gaps looking a bit large (that might just be the photographic angle) looks very good Many of us cut our teeth on SMP kits, even using the flat bars they supplied as gauges. Roller gauges improved the build quality, and the flat bars were the correct thickness to set the wing and check rails. A pair of roller gauges do make life easier, as do check rail gauges but these are a nice to have. For 00 I believe a wing rail gauge is the next best investment after roller gauges, as I have built 00 (though it may have been 00sf) gauge turnouts which work very well when being tested before check rails have been fitted. Y points are just as easy to build as normal points. BUT you must put the set (bend) in both rails, as both are curved. The photo is not clear if you have put the set (bend) in the curved stock rail just before the switch rail tip. Templot plans are very useful in showing both the set and the length of planning on the switch rails. A very good start, and I guess after building it there will be a few things you would do differently. I am very impressed that you are combining different build methods from several sources. Just keep on experimenting, that's the way you learn. Soon you will be passing tips on to the rest of us. I must have a go at Brian's method of building a Vee, I still believe that for copperclad construction the simple Vee build is best in 4 mm scale though Hi, yes the set is in the curved rail, though it took a few attempts to get it just in the right place. The piece of shim in the kit proved useful, though I'm not sure what thickness it was. To be honest I'm not completely sure to what set of standards I built the point to in the end - haha! All in all I really enjoyed the building process though & am keen to start the next one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayfield2 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Will If it works then its to the correct standard. The wing rail gauge for 00 (universal) I believe is 1.2 mm, but in 00 there is a bit of inbuilt tolerance By the way £3 for the kit was a bit of a bargain What's the next one on your list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
will5210 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Will If it works then its to the correct standard. The wing rail gauge for 00 (universal) I believe is 1.2 mm, but in 00 there is a bit of inbuilt tolerance By the way £3 for the kit was a bit of a bargain What's the next one on your list. Yes it seems to work, but I'm yet to try it under power so we'll wait & see. There were a load of kit built SMP points on a stall at Manchester show last year. I bought 5 assembled ones for £4 each & this kit for £3. I have a plastic SMP catch point kit to build, so it'll probably be that next. After that I'll probably wait until after I've been to Expo EM north. Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayfield2 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Will They were good prices, were the sleepers the older type made from Paxoline or the newer fiberglass type. The plastic kits are not too bad, but over time may curl slightly. It wont be hard to test it, just add some turnout off cuts, two wires at one end, then just short across to the Vee with a piece of rail to test, then just do the same on the other side to test the other route. I see C&L will be at Expo north, Peter will be there with the large stand and is always available to chat through his range. But please remember he is there to take money as well, so if you have a few questions then ask in the quieter times. Now are you going to carry on with copperclad construction or have a go with plastic chair and plastic/ply sleepers. the other question is what flexitrack are you going to use. If Peco I would suggest that you spend the time altering the sleeper spacing, Andy Y has done this and the track looks so much better If nothing else buy your rail, as Peter either posts them in 500 mm lengths or via parcel post. Both being more expensive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayfield2 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 C&L have announced a set of price rises which seem to be in the region of 15% for chairs and 20% for HiNi rail where as standard Nickel silver went up by 10%. It seems that the special chairs have been hit the most going up to £4.50 per packet. Plastic sleepers have also increased. Its only the second C&L product increase in 4 years and with raw material prices increasing its understandable. Also many of the moulds are getting to the end of their life and need replacing, so its understandable that prices have to move upwards. I have been anticipating this. The actual cost of the parts for making a turnout is still quite reasonable, rail being 30p extra per turnout standard chairs being about 70p extra. Special chairs just depends on what's being made, under £1.50 for a turnout but somewhere between £3.50 to £4.50 per crossing and I guess about £1 for plastic sleepers (even more reason for using ply). I could use standard nickel silver rail which is only £10, I must look at the difference in colour. Please note I am not moaning about the price rises, its much better having the range available at a higher price than no range at all. Secondly if this leads to a better and increased range then its well worth it. Also Peter's mail order service is up with the very best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
will5210 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Will They were good prices, were the sleepers the older type made from Paxoline or the newer fiberglass type. The plastic kits are not too bad, but over time may curl slightly. It wont be hard to test it, just add some turnout off cuts, two wires at one end, then just short across to the Vee with a piece of rail to test, then just do the same on the other side to test the other route. I see C&L will be at Expo north, Peter will be there with the large stand and is always available to chat through his range. But please remember he is there to take money as well, so if you have a few questions then ask in the quieter times. Now are you going to carry on with copperclad construction or have a go with plastic chair and plastic/ply sleepers. the other question is what flexitrack are you going to use. If Peco I would suggest that you spend the time altering the sleeper spacing, Andy Y has done this and the track looks so much better If nothing else buy your rail, as Peter either posts them in 500 mm lengths or via parcel post. Both being more expensive. I already have 10m of SMP flexi as I was led to believe some RTR wheels hit the chairs on C & L track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayfield2 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Will You are quite correct there but most modern RTR and all scale wheels are OK now. Having said that there is not much between the two makes. I prefer the deeper sleepers of Exactoscale fast track system but that's another story. You will need the thinner copperclad strip plastic/ply timbers. Do make sure that you stick both ends of the sleepers to the track bed especially if using plastic timbers and chairs. Laser cut ply would be my recommendation. If using copperclad sleepers do try cutting the isolation slits first, then filling and filing flat before soldering the rails to the timbers. Just makes an easier job than filling and filing flat once the rails are in place Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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