Finished ! - First Kit - Slaters Wagon 7mm

[Poggy1165]

It's interesting that photo shows the little clips used to hold the capping piece in place. I think I am right in saying these were a late addition. Does anyone happen to know when these clips started to be added?

I certainly agree it's worth adding the capping. It's one of those little touches that makes the difference.

[ThePurplePrimer]

Thanks for the suggestion Chris - I might give that a go

[jwealleans]

I think I'm right in saying the caps were a post war addition, or only became very common post war.

[81A Oldoak]

I think I'm right in saying the caps were a post war addition, or only became very common post war.

 

I don't know, but it is worth checking. The photo in my link showed a preserved pre-grouping wagon so the capping could be a later addition. As I model the BR period I am reasonably well covered, but for earlier periods research is obviously required.

[buffalo]

I think I'm right in saying the caps were a post war addition, or only became very common post war.

Would that be be railway companies of PO wagons?. A quick flick through just one of Keith Turton's PO wagon volumes showed what appeared to ne pinned strips without any of the wrapover clips on a few pre-1920 (poss. pre WW1) wagons, though most do not appear to have the strip until well into the twenties. In this volume, there was nothing with a wrapover clip until well into the thirties and most were WW2 pooling era or later.

 

Now that's a quick look at a small sample, so dates could change significantly with a better study. A lack of visible strips may be a product of most photos being taken from the side and below the top and the stip fitting flushly when the wagon was new.

 

It looks, then, like strips and clips are different issues.

 

Nick

 

ps. I forgot to mention company wagons. Many photos of GWR opens show strips from the mid to late 1890s, though the only trace of clips that I recall were on often heavily repaired wagons post-WW2 or in early BR days (esp O13 chaina clay opens). Perhaps others would care to look further at other company's wagons?

Edited January 27, 2014 by buffalo

[ThePurplePrimer]

By 'pinned' do you mean nailed on ?

 

Just trying to visualise this - I am imaging a metal strip with holes simply nailed to the top edge of the top board 

[buffalo]

By 'pinned' do you mean nailed on ?

 

Yes, imagine a piece of metal strip as wide as the side planks and no more than 1/4" thick, often rounded on the top outer corners, with a hole every six inches or so. Then nail or screw this to the edge of the plank.

 

Nick

Edited January 27, 2014 by buffalo

[DOCJACOB]

You may want to look in the Preservation Forum at the thread LNER Grain Wagon as i did exactly what you were discussing this AM  

[ThePurplePrimer]

Well I am back at work today as I have been laid flat with a chest infection and wanted to get this kit finished and off my other bench

 

I tried to read the instructions in regards to the buffers and gave up after a few times reading. I am well aware that I am still not feeling right but I reckon I should be able to manage this but sadly my brain cant cope with the instructions today

 

Firstly the box picture of the wagon seems to show buffers that have cast in ribs ( looks like 4 ? ) - I cant seen anything in my box that looks like I could make that

 

If I assume I am not using ribbed buffers then the 'instructions' talk about buffer collars needing gluing to buffer barrels which should be on the solebar moulding.

 

Glued how - to what end - in which orientation. I decided to look for a drawing but all I can find is a scribble that scarcely resembles the parts I have

 

I find myself now frustrated - has anyone deciphered this

 

( disclaimer - this might all be very obvious and well presented and I am simply not thinking clearly )

 

PS - I do have some small springs in the bag - but what is a 'threaded spring' when its at home  ? ) 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2014 by ThePurplePrimer

[jamie92208]

Hi

 

If you;ve got brass buffer bodies then you don't need the end collars.  I presume from the photo that A is a brass buffer body that's been painted.

 

Thread the small spring onto the buffer rod adn then insert it into the brass body.  The small nut then goes on the tail of the rod to retain it.   Then put the whole assembly into the wagon end.

 

 

Jamie

Edited February 3, 2014 by jamie92208

[ThePurplePrimer]

Thanks Jamie

 

Yes part A is the brass body that I have blackened chemically

 

I did loosely assemble as you describe and that did make sense

 

Should I be using parts e or d on the wagon ends ? Something makes me think I should

[Andrew Young]

Thanks Jamie

 

Yes part A is the brass body that I have blackened chemically

 

I did loosely assemble as you describe and that did make sense

 

Should I be using parts e or d on the wagon ends ? Something makes me think I should

 

Yes, use either E or D depending on your preference and place that between the wagon body and part A when you push it in.

 

Cheers,

Andrew

[Guest Isambarduk]

“… what is a 'threaded spring' when its at home?”

 

 

Indeed!  The instructions just need better punctuation and/or laying out; they should read:

 

The sprung buffer unit comprises:

• Turned buffer head and shank, threaded 12BA
• Spring
• 12BA nut

 

I think you’ll still need to add the flanges (parts D or E) to the headstocks (lower part B ) to suit the turned part of the buffer stocks (part A).

 

 

David

Edited February 3, 2014 by Isambarduk

[3 link]

Hmmm, I think the buffer shanks that had " ribbed " side strengtheners were standard BR shanks, and I notice the completed wagon picture on the box also has these, so it depends on what era you are modelling and how important the detail is to you.

 

I am certain BR did not get round to replacing the buffers on all their acquired wagons, and there were plenty hiding away in some weed strewn sidings all over the network.

 

So modellers licence should come into play in my opinion.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[3 link]

Hi Paul,

 

Thanks for the info, I did not realise they had been round for that long, learn something new every day.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[Guest Isambarduk]

"20 years ago, Slaters had plastic moulded buffers in the PO kits" + "I did not realise they had been round for that long"

 

If you were referring to Slater's wagon kits, I bought my first one around 1973/4 and I was not an 'early adopter' (student = not that much cash, chose 3H, mostly) so they were about before then.  So that's 40 years!  Good grief.

 

David

[ThePurplePrimer]

Thanks for the tips - I now have the buffer sleeves fitted and chose part E ( my name not Slater's ) I chose this one as it was large enough to cover the sink marks

 

Then I went on to fit the hooks and 3 links - the links would no way fit through the hole in the hook so I enlarged the hole - no go - so I enlarged it as much as I dared and could get the link through but due to the curved shaped it was VERY tight - too tight so I have removed the link to rethink this and have reblacked the hook.

 

I am going to need to find better link than these - not impressed

 

I then decided to skip the links and get the hooks fitted - the instruction slip/sheet tells you to cut the single spring in two with side cutters or heavy-duty scissors ( scissors !? )

 

I have two springs in my bag so do I cut or not - no idea how long they should be in any case so assume not. Then my hook has 2 possible holes - no idea which one I am supposed to be using and now I don't know how long the spring is supposed to be either. Inexperienced in 7mm so no idea how much tension there should be so cant even guess but I do

 

I follow the instruction slip and fit the split pin , it doesn't say to bend the end of the slit pin but I assume I am going to have to - before I do I line the wagon end up with the bottom plate so I can dry fit for clearances !

 

Now this clearly is never going to work - I check the slip instructions and I have done it right. I need a solution - hmmmmm - I can bend the loose end of the slit pin and trim that will work - but what about the loop end - if I bend it one way then the spring will slip over it rendering the pin pointless - if I bend the other way to make in effect a 2 prong grappling hook then the spring will be retained but there is a risk it will foul the plastic channel - need to think about this.

 

My initial bemusement is now turning to irritation.

 

I get the feeling this kit has been around a while so I suspect that the instructions could have been improved where needed and they would be putting parts in the box that match the description - the drawings don't seem to match anything very closely at all.

 

If this is what I should be expecting from 7mm modelling, then thanks Slater's, I think you made my mind up for me

 

 

I have obviously not bent or cut the pin here but its very obvious there are going to be issues - and it most certainly will need bending at the loop end and will NOT fit as per Slater's photo

 

Edited February 3, 2014 by ThePurplePrimer

[66C]

My initial bemusement is now turning to irritation. 

 

I get the feeling this kit has been around a while so I suspect that the instructions could have been improved where needed and they would be putting parts in the box that match the description - the drawings don't seem to match anything very closely at all.

 

If this is what I should be expecting from 7mm modelling, then thanks Slater's, I think you made my mind up for me

Hi Rob

 

Don't give up on 7mm scale just yet. As with other scales there is a great variety of kits on the market and to judge a scale by one product is unfortunate. There is an ongoing debate amongst Gauge O Guild members about the quality of kits - not just the parts but also their accuracy and the "instructions" that often hinder rather than help!

 

If you do not yet want to venture into etched brass or whitemetal kits, than may I suggest that you consider a Parkside wagon kit. They are probably not perfect but are certainly straightforward to assemble and include transfers as well.

 

Just to give you something else to think about - not everyone uses the 3 link couplings that come with the kits. There is a variety of automatic couplings that can be used instead.

 

Finally, there are many RMweb members who are very willing to offer support and encouragement - don't be reluctant to ask for advice or opinions before taking your next step in 7mm scale.

 

Best wishes.

 

P.S. Just had a look at your own website - your painting skills are certainly better than mine! - those figures look great.

Edited February 3, 2014 by 66C

[ThePurplePrimer]

Hi Bill

 

Thanks for the words of encouragement - Don't worry as I am determined to get this kit finished one way or another

 

Here is what I came up with - the slot in the under chassis is roughly 4mm ( actually tapers in 2 directions ) - the spring is roughly 3mm OD and the hook bar is roughly 3mm x 1 with rounded edges

 

I am lucky enough to own a Waldron punch and die set so I grabbed a scrap of 0.75mm plastic card and punched out a 4mm disc - then I eyeballed 2 x 1mm holes which I joined together with a sharp scalpel 

 

I now have a tight ( but not too tight ) washer that fits on the hook bar. The washer retains the spring nicely but the assembly doesn't foul in the chassis slot. This arrangement should allow me to to be a nice tight bend in the splt pin - so the pin wont foul now and the spring wont slip over the washer ( I hope )

 

 

 

[ThePurplePrimer]

Bill

 

It is interesting the the Guild consider it a matter worthy of debate and its a topic that I would be keen to discuss ( maybe not in the thread ) - I think its an important discussion to be having somewhere

 

Couplings seems to be an area with little consensus that I can see - this is why I decided to go for the 'easiest' option ( ie what comes in the box ) for starters

 

And you are quite right - plenty of very helpful members here ( this place is great ) and I wouldn't have gotten this far without all your help - please all stick with me through my whinging as I am looking forward to the fun but ( the painting etc )

The weathered lettering on that wagon looks fantastic Paul - any tips ?

[3 link]

Hi Rob,

 

I have always found that after a couple of kits you get to know how the various kit designers minds work, I enjoy working out different ideas the same as you do with the Waldron punch ( I use brass washers ). I have built many of the Slaters kits over the years and in my opinion they are one of the better kits on the market, and if you think the wagon kits are not up to the mark then I suggest you steer clear of the loco kit market for a while.

 

The loco kits can go from good to absolutely diabolical and not fit for sale, and even the so called " top of the range " can test the most patient of modellers.

 

I have never had any kit that just falls together in any scale, and I find that 7mm is a lot easier to work with due to it's size. Many times in the past I have felt like throwing the lot out of the window, but now with the internet there is always someone willing to help us out, we have never had it so good.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[ThePurplePrimer]

Hi Martyn

 

I would not go as far as to say that the kit is bad - but the instructions are poor in my opinion

 

I would have possibly found it easier with no written instructions at all but a good exploded diagram - sadly I don't have that either

 

I am hoping that it will build up to be a nice model when it's finished and that's the main thing.

 

Can you imagine what someone building a kit of any kind for the first time would make of this ?

 

I don't see myself building a loco kit any time in the near future now I have some idea of what to expect with a set of instructions for a railway rolling stock model.

[3 link]

Hi Rob,

 

Yes I agree the instructions are not the best, and to warn you now that most instructions and not just Slaters are of the same ilk. 

 

Saying that though if you were wanting to try your hand at a brass kit, then in my opinion Connoisseur kits are one of the best with exploded diagrams and some of his kits are classed as starter kits with added instructions on how to fold the brass and soldering tips as well.

 

What I would say is that once you have built this first wagon, if you decide to build another Slaters kit you would find it so much easier, because except for different types of braking most wagons are very similar in there design. They all have W irons, solebars and buffer beams, just different bodies.

 

I cannot work out as to why you had a problem with threading one of the links through the coupling hook, unless the hook was badly cast or etched. If the hole is small I usually open them out with a reamer or a small broach.

 

ATH,

 

Martyn.

Edited February 3, 2014 by 3 link

[66C]

Hi again Rob

 

I just remembered my current solution to the split pin problem for the coupling hook.

 

I get a 6mm length of 0.7mm or 30thou brass wire. Put a right angle bend in the middle. Insert in place of the split pin. Let the spring come back against the wire so that the wire is held at the bend and points towards the back of the buffer beam like an arrow head. It does not fall out or foul anything. Simples!

 

This method works very well if access to the coupling hook is cramped by the chassis framing.

 

I will do a picture if the explanation does not make sense.

 

Regards.

[brianthesnail96]

I have to say that those instructions look rather better than Parkside's, which are quite comical at times. Very grateful to Paul Bartlett for his excellent website to use as reference when it comes to working out odd details!

 

I've retro fitted three links with a spilt pin spring retainer to a second hand wagon, which was a faff to say the least. Bill's method sounds like a good one to try! I'm surprised that the Slaters one doesn't have a washer to retain the spring. The Parkside hooks are much easier, as they become a split pin in themselves, but they don't look as good!

 

Edit- that sounded a little condescending, sorry- it wasn't meant to, more of an "I feel your pain, but battle through 'cos it's all the more satisfying when you get it fettled"   

Edited February 3, 2014 by brianthesnail96