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What loco would use a 31 mm x 33 mm wheelbase


hayfield

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Another Ebay find and one which may just end up under a Peco O 16.5 Tram loco body. But as its so detailed with brake gear sand boxes etc I thought I would find out what it is,

Please can anyone tell me what loco and it looks to be a tender loco with a wheelbase of 31 mm x 33 mm and has 21 mm wheels.

post-1131-0-00116300-1391328411_thumb.jpg

 

post-1131-0-31335300-1391328430_thumb.jpg

As to its make is another question, it has 1.5 mm brass bar sides which are screwed into plastic spacers. The brake blocks are plastic and the iron work supporting the brake blocks are attached to the plastic spacers and have the electrical wheel wipers on them, very ingenious. Please does anyone have any idea as to the maker



Thanks in advance

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Having skimmed through a number of loco books, I think you can eliminate GWR, H&BR, NSR, LNWR, Barry, TVR, GNR, Cambrian, L&YR, HR, LBSCR, LSWR, SR, SER, SECR, LT&SR, MSWJR and GSWR.  The only near match I have found is the LCDR B, B1 and B2 classes, although the first two only had 4' 9" wheels, but the last, the fore-runners of the SECR C class, had 5' 0" wheels, and they did last until 1933.

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Thank you very much to all who have replied and as usual you have pointed me in the correct direction

 

The wheels could be a slight red herring as some modellers would use under size ones, also I have just looked at the Roche drawing and its there about's for the 4F in size and the sand boxes and pipes are very similar if not the same as the 4F

 

As said it may be a motorising / converting kit for the Airfix 4F of even a Triang Hornby (did they do one?), Flangeless center drivers could also age the kit. The construction of the chassis is not like any I have seen before, with brass sides being screwed into plastic spacers, and the pickups coming from the wire that holds the brake hangers in place under the chassis

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Could it be one of the brass chassis made to fit say a 4F kit that was originally made to fit an RTR chassis hence the wheelbase discrepancy. Just a thought.

 

Dave

That's a definite possibility. Wills/SEF certainly did a chassis like that. Not sure about the plastic spacers, mind you

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Mark

 

I thought after  the whitemetal chassis Wills then went to etched brass and used axle bearings, This is a 1/8th (ish) brass bar chassis and the wheel guards are part of the sand boxes. I have never known Wills or SEF using either plastic spacers or plastic brake blocks. Also the pick up arrangement is very novel. Could it be something by a company associated with an EM or P4 group ?

 

Thanks for the input, I think its my bad description that might be at fault

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Mark

 

I thought after  the whitemetal chassis Wills then went to etched brass and used axle bearings, This is a 1/8th (ish) brass bar chassis and the wheel guards are part of the sand boxes. I have never known Wills or SEF using either plastic spacers or plastic brake blocks. Also the pick up arrangement is very novel. Could it be something by a company associated with an EM or P4 group ?

 

Thanks for the input, I think its my bad description that might be at fault

No worries, hayfield. Given your latest info, it could be a home made beastie, of course?

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Mark

 

It could be but the parts look more manufactured, especially the plastic ones and not home made, though it might just been they have been adapted from another use. The coupling rods are etched.

 

Certainly I will not be using it on my O-16.5 layout as the chassis is far to wide

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Sorry, I too can't find anything of those dimensions and would go along with a slightly short 4F, but I have a few observations.

 

It could be EM. Yes, there would be very little side play, but it does have flangeless centre driving wheels and, if my eyes do not deceive me, it looks as though the wheels have been catching on the chassis in a couple of places. As you have axles, that should give you the back-to-back. If it doesn't add up, was there an Irish loco it could have been?

 

Also, 31mm + 33mm is the wheelbase of the Triang Jinty 0-6-0 chassis.

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Thanks for that

 

It has a back to back of 15.9 mm, my EM chassis with Romford wheels comes in at 16.45mm. Interesting about the Hornby Jinty chassis but its a tender loco so could have been for one of the body line tender locos that used the Triang/ Hornby loco chassis. Having said that it has a very Midland/LMS style sand boxes, but nothing like either any Wills or SEF chassis I have ever seen

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Further to Paul Cram's suggestion yesterday that a LNER J22 and J23 would fit the bill. I haven't checked the relevant dimensions for the J22, but the 31mm x 33mm would not be correct for a J23 (ex H&BR 'B' class),which had 5ft diameter wheels, i.e. 20mm, and a wheelbase of 7ft-3" x 8ft-3",i.e 29mm x 33mm.

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Sem-red face. J22 does indeed have the 7' 9" + 8' 3"  wheelbase, but the sandboxes are completely wrong, so I still feel it's a slightly-out Midland engine. Wheels would be 5' 1". Anyone feel a Triang or Hornby based model coming on?

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As it happens I do have an EM gauge chassis with 21 mm wheels and a 32 mm x 34 mm wheelbase which works very well, Its scratch built with a DS something (12) motor which I use for testing purposes, thinking about it I do have a spare Wills Flatiron needing a decent chassis also a  Jamieson Collet goods or 3F (I have 18 mm wheels). To be quite honest I have several whitemetal loco bodies and the odd sheet metal loco that need a decent chassis so with the info re Triang wheelbase (I should have checked)  I have plenty of choices to go on top of it

 

Many thanks again

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