coachmann Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) Although I am intending to try copydex if I can find a local supply. I tested Copydex for gluing down cork and it is thinner than PVA and dries quicker too. So I am sticking with PVA (see what I did there haha). It is possible to get ballast up to the tops of sleepers by laying on a thick layer of PVA although the same layer would be too thick for SMP or C+L track. In other words, it is better to lay points first then the thinner sleepered flexible track afterwards using less PVA. A benefit of using my lay 'n ballast method that I have not previously mentioned is it makes for level track even when the baseboard is not perfectly flat. This is because I use long lengths of 3" x 1" timbers as weights on which are placed books. This weight presses the track down onto level parts but allows the track to 'float' on the PVA over slight dips. Having said that, I use a 2ft 6ins foot steel rule to show up high spots on the cork underlay and do my best to sand them out with an electric sander before putting track on it. Edited May 23, 2015 by coachmann 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I would advise having a bit of practice first, especially if using a new can. When full, some rattle-cans can chuck out such vast quantities of paint it can swamp fine and, in extreme cases, not-so-fine detail. Cocktail sticks have numerous modelling uses - holding laminated coupling rods in place while they're being soldered up, mixing and applying epoxy adhesive, adding the slice of lime to the stiff gin and tonic you'll need after a ballasting session . . . 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted May 23, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2015 I tested Copydex for gluing down cork and it is thinner than PVA and dries quicker too. So I am sticking with PVA (see what I did there haha). It is possible to get ballast up to the tops of sleepers by laying on a thick layer of PVA although the same layer would be too thick for SMP or C+L track. In other words, it is better to lay points first then the thinner sleepered flexible track afterwards using less PVA. A benefit of using my lay 'n ballast method that I have not previously mentioned is it makes for level track even when the baseboard is not perfectly flat. This is because I use long lengths of 3" x 1" timbers as weights on which are placed books. This weight presses the track down onto level parts but allows the track to 'float' on the PVA over slight dips. Having said that, I use a 2ft 6ins foot steel rule to show up high spots on the cork underlay and do my best to sand them out with an electric sander before putting track on it. Thanks. I will have a practise on my fiddle yard and see what I can achieve. I have just checked the shed and to my surprise I have pieces of wood that may just do the trick. I am quite surprised as most of my 'useful bits of wood' did not survive the move. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted May 23, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2015 I would advise having a bit of practice first, especially if using a new can. When full, some rattle-cans can chuck out such vast quantities of paint it can swamp fine and, in extreme cases, not-so-fine detail. Cocktail sticks have numerous modelling uses - holding laminated coupling rods in place while they're being soldered up, mixing and applying epoxy adhesive, adding the slice of lime to the stiff gin and tonic you'll need after a ballasting session . . . Mike, Fortunately I have a large fiddle yard so there is room to practise. I am a whisky man myself. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) Meanwhile - Wagons...I have a wagon Label from Gwaun-Cae-Gurwen Colliery, for Malting Coals.It's for Benjamin Perry & Sons, Radcliffe Siding, Bristol. Dated 19 Nov 1918.So, we have the barley, proper Welsh Malting Coal, just the Yeast and somewhere near Barmouth... Oh, and a van or two to export the arisings..... I think in your 1890's period the Collieries would have been under the ownership of 'Richard Morgan & Sons', I'm sure I have a coal wagon with that name on, somewhere. There have been RTR models, but ... http://www.robbiesrollingstock.co.uk/images/Wales/Rich_Morgan_00.jpg Edited May 23, 2015 by Penlan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 In what way do we think malting coal would have differed from any other general purpose heating coal? I'm guessing that malting floors were gently warmed, to encourage germination, then turned up high a couple of days later to roast the barley sprouts. Were they steam heated, or directly? I suppose I ought to answer this thirst for knowledge by arranging a brewery visit... Best Simon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted May 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2015 Malting coal needed to have a very low arsenic content. Hence anthracite was usually used. This meant that wagons from the Swansea valleys went all over the country. BTW, who knows which Welsh brewery discovered coal when it was drilling for water? No prizes I am afraid. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Jonathan Thanks for that pointer, I had no idea. Google provides more... http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1901.tb00174.x/asset/j.2050-0416.1901.tb00174.x.pdf?v=1&t=ia17d3am&s=cbe397fd7c008997c19c85cf33e57a24aa532e4a Best Simon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted May 23, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2015 Meanwhile - Wagons... I have a wagon Label from Gwaun-Cae-Gurwen Colliery, for Malting Coals. It's for Benjamin Perry & Sons, Radcliffe Siding, Bristol. Dated 19 Nov 1918. So, we have the barley, proper Welsh Malting Coal, just the Yeast and somewhere near Barmouth... Oh, and a van or two to export the arisings..... I think in your 1890's period the Collieries would have been under the ownership of 'Richard Morgan & Sons', I'm sure I have a coal wagon with that name on, somewhere. There have been RTR models, but ... http://www.robbiesrollingstock.co.uk/images/Wales/Rich_Morgan_00.jpg Don't you need hops as well? Barmouthw as apparently famous for herring and so was Traeth Mawr, although the records are more scarce. There was also a rock trench offshore where the fishing fleet went crabbing. Much sort after they were. Regular supplies to Birmingham, and even London when they could get them. Now, the rich Englishman who lives up the valley has strong links to Shepherd Neme, and the odd van is seen in the siding. I need to check the records as to whether Traeth Mawr had its own brewery. Small scale obviously. I will just go and check Wikipedia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted May 23, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2015 Malting coal needed to have a very low arsenic content. Hence anthracite was usually used. This meant that wagons from the Swansea valleys went all over the country. BTW, who knows which Welsh brewery discovered coal when it was drilling for water? No prizes I am afraid. Jonathan Jonathan, Water! You mean you have water in Welsh beer! The only Welsh Brewery I know is Brains, so lets go with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted May 23, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2015 Jonathan Thanks for that pointer, I had no idea. Google provides more... http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1901.tb00174.x/asset/j.2050-0416.1901.tb00174.x.pdf?v=1&t=ia17d3am&s=cbe397fd7c008997c19c85cf33e57a24aa532e4a Best Simon Simon, Not sure what site that is but it says that I am forbidden! Must have upset somebody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Weird! The intro is the interesting bit, unless you're a research chemist. As it's from 1901, I'm not too worried about copyright... Best Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) Gee, could my daily dose of Cod Liver Oil and Malt be contaminated with arsenic...? Edited May 23, 2015 by coachmann 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted May 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2015 They may have put water in the beer (!) but cleanliness being next to godliness they needed lots of water for washing the ingredients. But interesting that suggestion that malt might have contained traces of arsenic. Of course, depending what is in the soil foodstuffs can contain all sorts of trace elements - or have them missing, which is a problem in the centre of big continents such as the USA. And the brewery was (and still is) Felin Foel. The colliery closed a long time ago, I think. Me, I only drink Guinness (preferably Dublin brewed) or Peja Beer. Jonathan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted May 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) Me, I only drink Guinness (preferably Dublin brewed) If you drink it in the UK or Ireland then it will be as the Park Royal Guinness brewery closed in 2005. But that doesn't mean it's all good. It needs a good landlord to know what they're doing with Guinness. It also needs plenty of customers as it's not that easy to keep, so you don't want the barrel on for long. I like the idea of malt, hops, barrels and beer... will need to look at what if any of that sort of traffic frequented my area. Might even call for an investigatory trip to see what sort of stuff is served in the pubs there now Edited May 23, 2015 by Anotheran 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I've missed a lot of discussion since being here last but a few things I can add (which are probably too late now!): Cambrian rail was all bullhead - the Tanat Valley Light Railway was laid in Flat bottomed rail, except at Blodwell Junction where the original bullhead remained. Cambrian Gunpowder vans were not built until 1905 - they were to the standard Iron mink design but with the side stanchions not turned under the floor, instead they carried down straight and were attached to the soldebar with brackets. Axleboxes were oil, and the door hinges were pretty ornate. The Cambrian originally ballasted over sleepers, but stopped - I don't know exactly when I'm afraid. My underframes are progressing very slowly, I haven't had chance to do anything with them, but they are getting there. The Axleboxes come in a few versions, I have undated ones in hand, which were certainly in use circa 1903 on Oswestry built vehicles. As far as I can tell there were 3 basic styles of round bottom: As just mentioned just lettered Cambrian Railways, Carrying the date and a cast in 9 supplied by Pickering and a 3rd type which has 3 lines of lettering inside the cambrian railways circular motif that I have yet to decipher. There were a further 2 designs of oil axleboxes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted May 23, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2015 Weird! The intro is the interesting bit, unless you're a research chemist. image.jpg As it's from 1901, I'm not too worried about copyright... Best Simon Love it. A scientific paper written in Victorian English. Does it say where the samples were found. Sorry, I will go down a side turning if I am not careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Me, I only drink Guinness (preferably Dublin brewed) or Peja Beer. Tut tut tut! Try Purple Moose or Cader Ales. Much, much closer to you is Monty's. Support your local brewery! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted May 23, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2015 If you drink it in the UK or Ireland then it will be as the Park Royal Guinness brewery closed in 2005. But that doesn't mean it's all good. It needs a good landlord to know what they're doing with Guinness. It also needs plenty of customers as it's not that easy to keep, so you don't want the barrel on for long. I like the idea of malt, hops, barrels and beer... will need to look at what if any of that sort of traffic frequented my area. Might even call for an investigatory trip to see what sort of stuff is served in the pubs there now Neil, I am not sure what the local brewery in NE is/was but at one time it was Bass. I suppose you could see who they took over, or you could have t transported in from up the coast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted May 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2015 Neil, I am not sure what the local brewery in NE is/was but at one time it was Bass. I suppose you could see who they took over, or you could have t transported in from up the coast? Chris, That's funny. I just made a post on NE having done the same search and found the same page. I decided then not to clog up your thread any more with off topic posts. So thank you for looking, and then posting it! Kind regards, Neil 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 From past experience I can assure you that researching breweries of the past is surprisingly difficult. It is one of those situations where you really need to know the answer before you can ask the question. If you've got even a vague idea of what the brewery was it is quite easy to confirm, but if you are starting from scratch it is extremely difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted May 23, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2015 I've missed a lot of discussion since being here last but a few things I can add (which are probably too late now!): Cambrian rail was all bullhead - the Tanat Valley Light Railway was laid in Flat bottomed rail, except at Blodwell Junction where the original bullhead remained. Cambrian Gunpowder vans were not built until 1905 - they were to the standard Iron mink design but with the side stanchions not turned under the floor, instead they carried down straight and were attached to the soldebar with brackets. Axleboxes were oil, and the door hinges were pretty ornate. The Cambrian originally ballasted over sleepers, but stopped - I don't know exactly when I'm afraid. My underframes are progressing very slowly, I haven't had chance to do anything with them, but they are getting there. The Axleboxes come in a few versions, I have undated ones in hand, which were certainly in use circa 1903 on Oswestry built vehicles. As far as I can tell there were 3 basic styles of round bottom: As just mentioned just lettered Cambrian Railways, Carrying the date and a cast in 9 supplied by Pickering and a 3rd type which has 3 lines of lettering inside the cambrian railways circular motif that I have yet to decipher. There were a further 2 designs of oil axleboxes.... Alan, Thank you. Rail: I misunderstood the picture, so it does show bullhead. Gunpowder Van: I bought one and did not check the number until it arrived. Yep, 1905. Oh well. Sleepers: My understanding is, and I cannot remember the reference, is that Parliament made a ruling in 1890 to stop the covering of sleepers which I think was common railway practise as the sleepers could go rotten and no one would notice until a train derailed. Underframes: I have a number of wagons to go on them. The axle boxes, if they were on wagons built in Oswestry I assume they were built are after 1895? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted May 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2015 At one time Norfolk brely was shipped all over the place including Dublin to make guiness. The trade diminished with the coming of the railway so I assume it was moved around in wagons. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted May 23, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2015 At one time Norfolk brely was shipped all over the place including Dublin to make guiness. The trade diminished with the coming of the railway so I assume it was moved around in wagons. Don Don, Does that mean I can have a GER closed van? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted May 23, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2015 I made a comment on Neil's thread that the page above appears to show that there were in 1905 already a limited number of Breweries supplying the pubs in Wales. Allsops of Burton was one which could have become Bass, and apart from other more local ones there was City Brewery Litchfield. Thinking about it some more there were quite a number of 'Free' houses which I suppose could indicate that there was a market for the really local small brewer. Barley, hops, and malting coal would have come in but I doubt that the local brewery would have had its own van for beer going out. Would the coal have been delivered directly to the brewery or the station, then bagged(?) and taken by road? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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