Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[brumtb]

35 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

I think it has been a while since I have thanked everyone for their reactions.  I do appreciate them, and find them encouraging.  I have also noticed that I have some more followers to the thread.  Welcome aboard and I hope you are not disappointed,  If it gets a bit slow there are nearly 200 pages to go back through, mostly at the moment without pictures so you can either, imagine what it might have been like, get out a crayon and a piece of paper, and draw what you imagined, or if you really want to see something, just ask and I will reinstate those ones.  I would not advise going back as you will see just how many things I have started and just how few I have finished.

 

I have done some modelling, but not in the last week, and the next couple of weeks looks a bit rough to.  There is quite a bit to report, but this post is not about that, it is more from Caersws, The Cambrian Railway Village, which should, maybe, round up on refreshment rooms.

 

On page 75 there is a paragraph about Spiers and Pond, who supplied the refreshments in the refreshment rooms.  It states, as we have probably discussed, that at a preceding large station the guard would be told that a tea basket, or luncheon basket, (summer only) would be required.  The book says it would be signalled onto the station where the basket was to be prepared, so that it would be ready when the train arrived.  I assume, 'signalled' means telegraphed, another job for young Owen Price.

 

The Tea basket would consist of tea, coffee or cocoa, bread and butter, (option of toast), and a piece of cake.  

 

A substantial Lunch Basket at any time of the year could be ordered by letter or telegram provided that there was reasonable time for preparation.  This would be, just amazing, cold fowl and ham, or roast beef with salad, bread, cheese, and claret or beer, or wine or mineral water.  It says that there was a system of food hampers being provided for First Class passengers but it does not say why or how.  Maybe you could book it at the time of getting your ticket, or perhaps they had them ready for those who wanted them.  Who knows.  Salad is interesting as in the early 20th century when these memories apply to, salad was seasonal, so what did they get in winter?

 

I assume a Luncheon basket, was somewhere between a Tea Basket and a Lunch Basket, or perhaps not.

 

It also recounts the story I mentioned earlier where at Moat Lane two ladies were collecting empty hampers and the train pulled out with them still on it.  The first stop was Welshpool and they cam back on an all stations stopper to find their colleague in tears as she ploughed through a mountain of washing up having held the fort while they were gone.

 

So what does this all mean for Traeth Mawr?  Firstly, I need to add another Clerk to the staff.  There is evidence of a Clerk and a lad Clerk at Barmouth.  I need to see if there are suitable figures.  (I have some Stadden loco men, which as long as they have jackets and a hat, would work.)

 

I had intended to have four ladies in the two refreshment rooms so that should be fine.  I do not have any figures for those yet, so I shall have to see what I can find.

 

Also the Telegraph Boy at the moment is a choice between these two:=

 

 

These are Stadden H0 figures.  The one on the left looks a bit scruffy with his jacket open and his hands in his pockets.  The one on the right does have a Kepi style hat, but neither have the right sort of jacket.  The Preiser HO Prussian figures from their 1900 range do not look right, they look too adult.  There is no rush as I have dozens, literally, of figures to paint and could spend a whole week just catching up doing those.  (Mainly sitting figures for coaches, although these would jump the queue.)

 

I need to sign of as I have a letter to write requesting a Lunch basket, shame you cannot get cake with your cold fowl though.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

At first glance the one on the left looked a typical "lad".

Tony

[ChrisN]

30 minutes ago, brumtb said:

At first glance the one on the left looked a typical "lad".

Tony

 

Tony,

Yes he does a bit.  Perhaps I ought to keep a watchful eye on him.

[Donw]

1 hour ago, ChrisN said:

I think it has been a while since I have thanked everyone for their reactions.  I do appreciate them, and find them encouraging.  I have also noticed that I have some more followers to the thread.  Welcome aboard and I hope you are not disappointed,  If it gets a bit slow there are nearly 200 pages to go back through, mostly at the moment without pictures so you can either, imagine what it might have been like, get out a crayon and a piece of paper, and draw what you imagined, or if you really want to see something, just ask and I will reinstate those ones.  I would not advise going back as you will see just how many things I have started and just how few I have finished.

 

I have done some modelling, but not in the last week, and the next couple of weeks looks a bit rough to.  There is quite a bit to report, but this post is not about that, it is more from Caersws, The Cambrian Railway Village, which should, maybe, round up on refreshment rooms.

 

On page 75 there is a paragraph about Spiers and Pond, who supplied the refreshments in the refreshment rooms.  It states, as we have probably discussed, that at a preceding large station the guard would be told that a tea basket, or luncheon basket, (summer only) would be required.  The book says it would be signalled onto the station where the basket was to be prepared, so that it would be ready when the train arrived.  I assume, 'signalled' means telegraphed, another job for young Owen Price.

 

The Tea basket would consist of tea, coffee or cocoa, bread and butter, (option of toast), and a piece of cake.  

 

A substantial Lunch Basket at any time of the year could be ordered by letter or telegram provided that there was reasonable time for preparation.  This would be, just amazing, cold fowl and ham, or roast beef with salad, bread, cheese, and claret or beer, or wine or mineral water.  It says that there was a system of food hampers being provided for First Class passengers but it does not say why or how.  Maybe you could book it at the time of getting your ticket, or perhaps they had them ready for those who wanted them.  Who knows.  Salad is interesting as in the early 20th century when these memories apply to, salad was seasonal, so what did they get in winter?

 

I assume a Luncheon basket, was somewhere between a Tea Basket and a Lunch Basket, or perhaps not.

 

It also recounts the story I mentioned earlier where at Moat Lane two ladies were collecting empty hampers and the train pulled out with them still on it.  The first stop was Welshpool and they cam back on an all stations stopper to find their colleague in tears as she ploughed through a mountain of washing up having held the fort while they were gone.

 

So what does this all mean for Traeth Mawr?  Firstly, I need to add another Clerk to the staff.  There is evidence of a Clerk and a lad Clerk at Barmouth.  I need to see if there are suitable figures.  (I have some Stadden loco men, which as long as they have jackets and a hat, would work.)

 

I had intended to have four ladies in the two refreshment rooms so that should be fine.  I do not have any figures for those yet, so I shall have to see what I can find.

 

Also the Telegraph Boy at the moment is a choice between these two:=

 

 

These are Stadden H0 figures.  The one on the left looks a bit scruffy with his jacket open and his hands in his pockets.  The one on the right does have a Kepi style hat, but neither have the right sort of jacket.  The Preiser HO Prussian figures from their 1900 range do not look right, they look too adult.  There is no rush as I have dozens, literally, of figures to paint and could spend a whole week just catching up doing those.  (Mainly sitting figures for coaches, although these would jump the queue.)

 

I need to sign of as I have a letter to write requesting a Lunch basket, shame you cannot get cake with your cold fowl though.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

I think those figures are a bit tubby for a young lad in those days especially one who might be cycling here and there delivering messages. Now there is an interesting project how to slim a figure without losing the external details.

 

Don

 

[ChrisN]

I did promise an update on modelling, but I am afraid, this is a pretty poor one, but if this one is not posted then the next will be too long.  (Long posts cause people's eyes to glaze over and lose concentration, or is it just me?  I have been known to stop half way through a post, open up another tab with RMWeb on it to find shorter posts, so when I have more time I can go back to the original one.  That is usually because I am doing three things at once.)

 

So, the siphons.  Progress of a sorts has been made.  You may remember I had put things together on the 4 wheel.

 

 

Just a reminder as we have had tea in the refreshment room and been bombarded with telegrams from the Telegraph Boys.

 

I decided to shellac everything I could see, so it made it look like this.

 

 

Some bits were already done, but this did the rest of the parts, including the floor of the 4 wheel siphon.

 

The next thing I did was to order some tall milk churns from Dart Castings, and as I wanted more than 20, I did as requested and phoned them and got a discount.  They arrived, along with some other stuff, including, er, umm, some more figures to modify, quite quickly.  A line of them was glued along each side using superglue, and when they were dried, and survived the turning upside down test, I glued the roof support and end on using PVA.  All fine, until later that day I dropped it.  Four out of about 20 stayed in place.  Sigh.  So, next I had to use some twesers to place them after having put more superglue on them, much more.  I then, when the superglue was dry, flooded the line with PVA.

 

 

You can still see the line of PVA as it had not dried, but not the churns.  Yes the side needs gluing to the end again, and was done so after everything had dried and I was convinced I would not have to replace the churns.  It is now nicely heavy.

 

We had a discussion about what was the correct colour, and it was suggested by @Sasquatch, probably along with others, that it should be GWR coach brown, and by @Dana Ashdown that Humbrol 10 Service Brown was about the correct colour, but glossy so it would take transfers.  (Why am I getting an aversion to transfers?  I never had a problem as a lad on my Airfix, planes, tanks etc.)  What to do, I have a pot of Pheonix GWR Coach Brown and a pot of Humbrol 10 Service Brown.  The answer I thought was simple, as the wagon had slats and the inside would be visible, paint the inside coach brown and the outside service brown and see if they were the same.  So the inside.

 

 

Done before churns were added.  I only did one coat, so the sides obviously need another one, but the ends and floor are about right.  (Joke time-  I actually asked myself, if I have painted one side of the ends how will I know which is inside, and outside so I know which side to glue the cardboard ends?  After a minutes thought, 'You glue the cardboard end to the non painted side.'  'Oh yeah!  Der!'  It is ok, I will keep taking the tablets.)

 

Now the outside.

 

 

I have tried to show the glossy outside against the the colour of the matt inside and have singularly failed.  Trust me, they are not that much different.

 

You will also notice that you can hardly see the milk churns let alone the inside of the vehicle, so I probably could have just left the inside coated in shellac.  Note also, I have scrapped away the paint on the six wheel floor as then the churns will be stuck to the MDF not the paint.  Next time I will glue the churns in place before putting the sides or ends on, but that will be after the wheels, but more of that on the next siphon post.

 

The kit comes with a thin cardboard roof to glue on.  I am of a mind to not use this and make a roof out of thicker cardboard and use formers as I usually do so that it is removeable, so that if/when it takes a tumble again, I can get inside.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Mikkel]

Very useful to see this Chris, as you know I have been curious about these kits. Thanks for the detailed write-up.

 

The small Siphon is high on the cute scale!

 

 

5 hours ago, ChrisN said:

I decided to shellac everything I could see,

 

I shall adopt this approach at work today. Should be interesting.

 

 

[Middlepeak]

Chris,

 

Sorry if I haven't picked this up elsewhere, but do you have any observations on the choice of materials used?

 

I tried laser cut 1mm mdf for a couple of Danish wagons I am building (see my thread elsewhere), but concluded that it was just too difficult to get nice square framing and accurately spaced planks, so I went back to my favoured plasticard instead.

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, Middlepeak said:

Chris,

 

Sorry if I haven't picked this up elsewhere, but do you have any observations on the choice of materials used?

 

I tried laser cut 1mm mdf for a couple of Danish wagons I am building (see my thread elsewhere), but concluded that it was just too difficult to get nice square framing and accurately spaced planks, so I went back to my favoured plasticard instead.

 

Geraint,

Thank you, that is an interesting question.  The mdf is 2mm thick and is quite robust.  The card is very thin and even when glued together is only 1mm thick and not very robust.  I have been told by the kit manufacturers that this method of laminating thin card goes back to the 1950s.  Although the card is thin the ends are glued to mdf and the sides are supported by the base and also the roof supports so in fact is overall quite robust.  My only concern is the roof which as it is so thin and needs all that roof support, not because it is thin but because I might need to remove it to replace the milk churns.

 

My only question remaining is about the W irons as I am not sure how robust they will be with all the weight of the churns, but I shall report on that when I get there.

 

It may well be that in the future we will need to move towards more card and wood modelling and these appear to be making up into nice models.

[Nick Gough]

7 hours ago, ChrisN said:

It may well be that in the future we will need to move towards more card and wood modelling and these appear to be making up into nice models.

 

I hope we don't have to start using wood locomotives because they probably wooden work.

[MrWolf]

The trouble is that MDF is horrible stuff. Although the modern version uses a safer glue, the dust needs to be treated with extreme care, despite the minimal level of exposure we modellers have to it.

 

 

https://www.cancer.org.au/news/5-workplace-cancer-risks-you-may-not-be-aware-of

 

[Mikkel]

I have been wondering what to do with some of the MDF kits I have in the attic, so I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts, if you'll allow Chris.

 

Given the difficulties of cutting and filing MDF kit components (I share Middepeak's experiences) and not least the health hazard (to which Wolf alerted me some time ago, thanks), I 'm thinking that MDF kits are best used un-modified. Is that a sensible principle?

 

Then there's the question of whether MDF kits emit formaldehyde  when built as they come? These are small components and if shellacked/varnished I don't suppose there would be many fumes - especially if compared to your average Ikea furniture?

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Mikkel
Typos, clarity, etc

[ChrisN]

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

I have been wondering what to do with some of the MDF kits I have in the attic, so I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts, if you'll allow Chris.

 

Given the difficulties of cutting and filing MDF kit components (I share Middepeak's experiences) and not least the health hazard (to which Wolf alerted me some time ago, thanks), I 'm thinking that MDF kits are best used un-modified. Is that a sensible principle?

 

Then there's the question of whether MDF kits emit formaldehyde  when built as they come? These are small components and if shellacked/varnished I don't suppose there would be many fumes - especially if compared to your average Ikea furniture?

 

 

THis is something I had not thought about, or really knew about.  I am concerned when people talk about cutting up resin kits, as resin is also pretty nasty.

[MrWolf]

I think though that we have to bear in mind the level of exposure is minimal. 

It's not like we're shop fitters or working in a flat pack furniture factory.

In modern MDF, formaldehyde is only released when it is worked.

It's rather more about being aware of the possible dangers while putting them into perspective.

 

Recently the most effective stop smoking drug has been taken off the shelves due to the discovery of trace amounts of nitrosamines.

The perspective is that the drug is only taken for 28 days and cigarettes contain far more nitrosamines, to which the smoker is constantly exposed.

[Donw]

For those worried about using card this shows Jim Read's 0 gauge loco chassis under test

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLd0Z1B9W0E

 

Don

[Dana Ashdown]

On 23/05/2022 at 17:59, ChrisN said:

You will also notice that you can hardly see the milk churns

I can see them!

[ChrisN]

I had better do a post as otherwise you will think I have not been doing any modelling.  The truth is that modelling time has been limited, and the time for posting posts has been even limiteder.  Work has continued on the Siphons, but very slowly.  The station building has seen some progress so I will show that.

 

I am not going to talk refreshment rooms and ranges, although that has commenced, but internals must wait until externals are done or we are waiting for paint to dry.

 

So, pillars.  I will post one of @corneliuslundie's photos of Newtown, as I think he has posted them on here, but all is lost at the moment.

 

 

You will notice the intricate design at the top of the pillar.  As the Cambrian, or in this case the Newtown and Machynlleth Railway was strapped for cash, they not only had this intricate design made on this pillar, but the design on every pillar is different.  How am I going to model this.  Answer:  I am not.

 

So, I decided that the main piece of the pillar should be 2mm deep x 3mm wide, and the piece at the top should be 3mm deep x 4mm wide.  There are sort of plates at the top and bottom of the decorated piece and I have made those of 10 thou plasticard.  A picture to explain, rather than an explanation then picture.

 

 

At the top on the left the plasticard has been marked out using a 4 x 3 rod.  It was drawn round, so the markings are slightly bigger than the rod.  The same has been done on the right, but with a 2 x 3 rod.  At the bottom is a 4 x 3 plastrut rod.  It was marked 2mm from the end, using a 2 x 3mm rod, and it has been filed from both sides and the front down to 2 x 3.  I then cut out one of the smaller rectangles, and glued this to the rod, and then glued a cut piece of 2 x 3 to it.

 

 

The lower piece was cut at an angle as it will need to go on the window sill.  You may be able to see on the lowest one at the top that it is in fact filed down to the correct size at the bottom, well, sort of.  The top square was cut and glued on once the shaped piece had been cut off the rod.

 

Now the idea of gluing the rectangle and the pillar to the shaped piece was that it is better to work with large pieces than smaller, so sticking the rectangle, then the rod to the shaped piece which is 3 x 4 x 2 surely should be easier.  Well it was, but that did not mean that it all stayed together when the shaped piece was cut off.  It almost worked, and it was not every time that I cut the shaped piece off that it all fell apart, sometimes they stayed together, and sometimes they half fell apart, so a quick gluing was all that was necessary.

 

 

There are ten here as I have ten windows.  I actually made eleven.  One ran away and hid until I had made the rest.  You will notice two things.  One, they are all different!  That is due to my lack of skill in filing.  Two, the shaped piece is in fact too long in comparison with the pillar, but to be honest I doubt if I could have worked with anything smaller.

 

 

 All ready to go in and pre-painted.  Notice on the left the other one has turned up.  This will be for sale on EBay at some incredible inflated price.  🙂

 

 

 

And fitted.

 

 

You may see that there white marks on the pillars.  On the pillar in the photo above the edge of the pillar is shaped, so I have filed the edges to reflect this.  They will be repainted when I paint the rest of the stonework, but it is away from the green frame so should not be a problem.

 

One last picture.

 

 

This is the inside with the second layer in place and painted.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Dana Ashdown]

On 19/06/2022 at 11:59, ChrisN said:

"limiteder"

Try saying that three times fast!😆

 

But the pillars do look good. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Dana Ashdown

[Nick Gough]

Interesting to see your construction method for the pillars Chris.

 

I will have to produce some similar, though smaller, items for Cholsey:

 

I shall need a total of 33, for the three station buildings, so it will be a challenge to see how consistent I can make them!

[ChrisN]

6 minutes ago, Nick Gough said:

Interesting to see your construction method for the pillars Chris.

 

I will have to produce some similar, though smaller, items for Cholsey:

 

I shall need a total of 33, for the three station buildings, so it will be a challenge to see how consistent I can make them!

 

Nick,

How interesting, and, er, small.  You could make them the same way as I did the top pieces, but could you make a mould and make them from DAS, or Milliput, or Fimo?

 

Make one, make a mould of it with Milliput, then when it is hard use DAS or Fimo.  Not sure how you would get them out though.

 

Just a thought.  

[Nick Gough]

10 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

Nick,

How interesting, and, er, small.  You could make them the same way as I did the top pieces, but could you make a mould and make them from DAS, or Milliput, or Fimo?

 

Make one, make a mould of it with Milliput, then when it is hard use DAS or Fimo.  Not sure how you would get them out though.

 

Just a thought.  

Thanks Chris.

I shall give that some consideration.

[Nick Gough]

17 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

How interesting, and, er, small. 

 

Indeed.

Each one should have maximum dimensions of 4 x 2.5 x 2mm!

[ChrisN]

41 minutes ago, Nick Gough said:

 

Indeed.

Each one should have maximum dimensions of 4 x 2.5 x 2mm!

 

Nick,

The tops of mine were a rectangle at the top of 4 x3mm going down to 3 x2 mm, and thier height was 2mm, which is why I filed them still attached to the rod.

[corneliuslundie]

For those who don't know Newtown station, here are the bits of stone he refers to:

Did Aberdovey have anything similar?

Jonathan

 

[ChrisN]

5 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

For those who don't know Newtown station, here are the bits of stone he refers to:

Did Aberdovey have anything similar?

Jonathan

 

 

Jonathan,

Here is a picture of Aberdovey, first posted by @NCB

 

 

You can see the pillars are similar but not carved as at Newtown.  Mine are probably in terms of shape somewhere between the two.

[ChrisN]

I have noticed that some people like to see me building the Siphons, and some the coaches, and some the station build.  Now not wishing to be a crowd pleaser I am going to break my rule of only posting about one thing at once and do all three, but there is a reason, well for two of them anyway.

 

You may wonder what has happened to the Siphon.  Well, it is usually done at our Wednesday morning Craft and Coffee, (tea actually but it does not alliterate), Mornings where my wife has encouraged me to take my modelling.  No smelly glues or paints though.  😒  I have been working on the wheels and I believe I showed some pictures of how far I got and said I was a little worried that they were quite fragile.  Basically, they have broken to pieces, the plastic being quite brittle.  I am hoping to use the springs along with Dart Casting W irons.  I just need to check I have some in stock.  (I think I have.)

 

Meanwhile a picture

 

 

I posted a picture of the Siphon against itself showing that I thought that Precision Paints Coach Brown was like Humbrol Service Brown.  Now above I have posted the picture just to embarrass myself as the brown background, which is coach brown, is a rather lumpy floor to the station building, and the badly painted Siphon, honestly it looked better than that before I took the picture, is Service Brown.  'Bout the same I think.

 

Onto the station building.

 

 

I have added glazing.

 

 

It is stuck on with 'Glue 'n glaze'.  You may just see the dado rail between the two colours made of 1mm semi-circular rod painted Coach Brown, or was it Service Brown?  One of the two.

 

While glazing I wondered if the Glue 'n Glaze would make suitable windows for my coaches.  The answer is that it is no better than PVA at it, so 'No'.  I decided that as the glazing was out I would do the coaches.

 

 

First the LB&SCR saloon.  There is a recess for the glazing and I reckoned that the seats would hold it in place, and they did, success!

 

 

 

 Stroudley brake.  Most of these were glued in place except a couple that by good fortune are just the same size as the compartment so are friction fit.  If they fall out I can glue them.  The Glue 'n Glaze did the duckets though, and then I remembered the windows at the back, and eventually did those as well.

 

 

MSLR Saloon.  I thought the seats in the First Class compartment should hold the glazing, which is how I tried to design it and that worked, another success!  (Notice the hard wearing carpet.)  The rest were a mixture of gluing and friction fits.

 

So apart from couplings they are ready to go into revenue earning service.  Yes, I know they should have transfers but I have a bit of a mental block where they are concerned at the moment.  I just need to spend some time thinking about them.  Yes, and spend some time painting passengers.  It is ok, the roofs are all done.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Mikkel]

Hurrah, good to see the coaches almost done. Will there be an inaugural train?

 

Fitting the glazing can be such a pain, I use Testors Clear Parts Cement around the edges, with the edges out of sight. However, I find it tricky because capillary action can draw the cement onto the visible part of the glazing and although it dries up clear the edges do make a mark which I don't like. A non-runny cement that doesn't leak or fog the glazing would be great.

 

A shame about the Siphon, but thank you for sharing the lessons learnt. 

 

 

On 02/07/2022 at 23:58, ChrisN said:

our Wednesday morning Craft and Coffee, (tea actually but it does not alliterate),

 

Tea and tinkering? 😀