Alan's even more Cambrian thread (actual pre group content in this one!)

[Quarryscapes]

Regarding The Cambrian 2 Plank: I usually use etched W Irons when building kits, removing the plastic ones carefully and leaving the plastic axle boxes. these can then have the axle hole opened out to enable a sprung W Iron to be used. Do you think the same could be done with this?  obviously I would need to acquire the correct W Iron.

 

These look like a really good model, I want a few of these for Llanfyllin in both Cambrian and GWR.

 

Shame about the 2-4-0 would have liked one of those, but, will watch your work carefully to see how you create one.

 

Yep it could be done, the solebars/w irons/springs/axleboxes are a single part. You could therefore just ditch those parts and sub in an etched underframe of the correct wheelbase (9ft). One other thing that is easily overlooked - the inside face of the headstocks has a recess, no doubt to save on plastic, however what I didn't realise is it extends beyond the solebars, so should really be filled in before fitting them! 

 

I think I'll end up with a hybrid cast and etched loco for the 2-4-0Ts, the GEM kit is beyond redemption IMO.

 

I get the impression that the Dragon Models Cam brake is not terribly good. Is this a true impression?

 

Regards

 

Yes, as much as I don't really want to slag off the only company that produces a decent selection of Welsh pre group stock, the ones I've built so far have not been great. 

[Quarryscapes]

One thing easier than expected was fitting the springs. You're supposed to cut off the massive chunk attached to them and do all kinds of filing and thinning, all I did was chamfer it so that it didn't protrude below the solebar and soldered it then to the back of the solebar. The solebars are of course a single thickness of etch so there's plenty of room between the W iron and solebars even on the rocking W iron. 

 

[Quarryscapes]

To aid construction of future box vans I drew this...

 

 

Artwork for a proper underframe, 9' wheelbase with proper brake gear which is tabbed and slotted into the floor, no guesswork. Also panels for the planked sections, the body will be a 3D printed framework which will be cast in whitemetal, then these etched panels added for sides and doors. 

 

Alternate ends will allow vented versions an versions with square or round base buffers. Alternate underframe etches will allow 9' and 9' 4/5" wheelbases. According to Dragon models there was a version running on 3'7" mansell wheels, I have never seen any evidence of this wagon but I'd like to be able to model it also. 

[Quarryscapes]

Took a deep breath, and made this....

 

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And it works! 

 

[Quarryscapes]

With a little bit of weight (courtesy of the Dean Goods in the background!) the chassis rolls just fine, though it won't roll under it's own weight alone. 

 

[Quarryscapes]

I am pleased to announce that after a little fettling, the wheels turn with the rods on! 

 

[mike morley]

 the GEM kit is beyond redemption IMO.

 

It's not that bad!

 

 

A bit battered and worn after a few years sterling service, I'll grant you, but it's still a nice little engine.  One thing to bear in mind is that by the standards of whitemetal kits it is extremely cheap, making it perfect for someone tackling their first cast kit - which is what I was when I built it.

 

It's got a right mongrel of a chassis, with Gibson milled brass sides held apart by EMGS frame spacers, compensation using Perseverance hornblocks with a paperclip for a compensation beam and the brake gear and coupling rods from the Iain Rice/Mainly Trains etch. 

It needed Perseverance's first generation hornblocks because the wheelbase of the Gibson frames are slightly different to that of the Rice/MT etch (Best not to wonder why) and the later version could not cope with the discrepancy.

[Quarryscapes]

It's not that bad!

 

1197 010.jpg

 

A bit battered and worn after a few years sterling service, I'll grant you, but it's still a nice little engine.  One thing to bear in mind is that by the standards of whitemetal kits it is extremely cheap, making it perfect for someone tackling their first cast kit - which is what I was when I built it.

 

It's got a right mongrel of a chassis, with Gibson milled brass sides held apart by EMGS frame spacers, compensation using Perseverance hornblocks with a paperclip for a compensation beam and the brake gear and coupling rods from the Iain Rice/Mainly Trains etch. 

It needed Perseverance's first generation hornblocks because the wheelbase of the Gibson frames are slightly different to that of the Rice/MT etch (Best not to wonder why) and the later version could not cope with the discrepancy.

 

Back then I'm sure it was fine, however my example has several poorly cast bits, holes in the footplate and cabside beading etc. Basically not a viable kit. I was only after the boiler anyway, but even that was poor and took several hours work to get it smooth, only to find it's not the correct profile in the first place! 

 

I've moved it on via ebay, and am going to start from scratch with my own etched chassis and parts. 

 

There has been some progress elsewhere though! Finally some proper Cambrian pattern buffers! 

 

 

 

3D printed in FUD, with MJT sprung heads, seen above in the Cambrian 2 plank. 

[Quarryscapes]

Ok then, nearly there with the 2 plank:

 

At start of play:

 

 

 

 

[Quarryscapes]

Just to recap on the 2plank, it's a Cambrian models plastic kit, with Gibson wheels, etched brake gear from a Dragon Models van, sprung buffers from MJT heads and springs in my own 3D printed bodies (available on shapeways) and finally transfers from Dragon models. As you can see I made a bit of a hash of them, but the weathering masks most of it!

[Quarryscapes]

And a couple more because I'm actually rather happy with this wagon!

 

 

 

haven't finished the interior, I messed up a bit thinking I could get away with a black wash to highlight the planking but it was waaay too soon for that! 

 

The rather heavy weathering is a mix of enamels and talc - yes talc! As noted in the opening thread my Cambrian era is set after WW1 really, and this livery came to an end in 1915, however I figure wartime expediency meant a few will have escaped the net for a good while after that. So, the initial painting was vaguely to spec, Black ironwork below the solebar and ironwork on the body sides (actually I left it it Vallejo panzer grey rather than black), then the interior was done in a sandy colour, which was also lightly washed and streaked down the sides. This is followed by picking out the floor by dry brushing with a reddish brown, again also washed and streaked over the exterior lightly. Then out comes the black wash, picking out detail on the exterior and streaking about. As this is drying the whole exterior is dusted with talc, toning it all down and giving a slightly dusty finish of a working wagon. 

[MartinWales]

Nice work sir!

 

Looks like I ended up with your 2-4-0T chassis off E bay and I also work in EM gauge too, so if you want to offset some of the costs for a Seaham body, then I may be able to help.

 

Have been collecting some bits for a small Cambrian project based upon the 1865 Beddgelert Railway project, the earthworks of which can still be seen along the Glaslyn bank as you travel from Tremadog on the A498.  However, at the moment it will take a little time after the two other EM layouts, another layout on the drawing boards, in addition to a 3mm scale 14.2mm finescale project!  

[57xx]

... and finally transfers from Dragon models. As you can see I made a bit of a hash of them...

 

And there I was thinking how good they looked! They have a painted on feel and the bits that have flaked off just give an authentic aged look to me.

[Quarryscapes]

Nice work sir!

 

Looks like I ended up with your 2-4-0T chassis off E bay and I also work in EM gauge too, so if you want to offset some of the costs for a Seaham body, then I may be able to help.

 

Have been collecting some bits for a small Cambrian project based upon the 1865 Beddgelert Railway project, the earthworks of which can still be seen along the Glaslyn bank as you travel from Tremadog on the A498.  However, at the moment it will take a little time after the two other EM layouts, another layout on the drawing boards, in addition to a 3mm scale 14.2mm finescale project!  

 

Glad it's gone to a good home (and not too far away!) Sounds like an interesting project - and one that will be requiring the wagon lurking behind the 2 plank in the above pics, a dumb buffered Lime wagon. It's currently available as a 3D print on Shapeways, though I think a few things will be altered as I'm not all that happy with the result at present, will see when it's painted. 

 

Always happy to help with anything Camrbian so if there's anything I can do just give me a shout

[Quarryscapes]

And there I was thinking how good they looked! They have a painted on feel and the bits that have flaked off just give an authentic aged look to me.

 

Yes they don't look bad once blended in, I'm very pleased with how they've settled into the texture of the wagon. (I scuffed it up with a scalpel lightly to simulate wood grain)

[MartinWales]

Thanks! Will keep that in mind!

 

Do you know that Fox are now supplying Cambrian transfers?

[alanbuttler]

Superb work mate! I think you've got the weathering and tone spot on

[Quarryscapes]

Thanks! Will keep that in mind!

 

Do you know that Fox are now supplying Cambrian transfers?

 

Your the 2nd person to tell me so, but I haven't seen any yet and Fox don't list them on the website - do you know exactly what they are offering as I've reached the stage now where I can't proceed with the Dragon Models van without the necessary lettering, I was thinking of asking Rail Tec or Powsides about commissioning some, as although they're fiddly I prefer rub down as I don't need a glass like surface to stick them to!   

 

Superb work mate! I think you've got the weathering and tone spot on

 

Cheers, I'm working some grimy magic on the Lime Wagon now:

 

[Quarryscapes]

Well I've just sent the artwork off to be etched for:

 

Chassis for the Lime Wagon

Chassis for Box Van

Panels for Box van including alternate ends for Mawddwy Road van

A load of coupling hooks

A tester set of panels for 'Seaham'

An assortment of GWR numberplates

Etched corner plates for the Lime wagon (the 3D printed ones weren't up to much IMO) 

A test of a set  of Compensated W irons in Brecon & Merthyr style

 

Can't wait for the results! 

 

Meanwhile, the lime wagon is finished apart from the chassis: 

 

 

 

 

I know technically I can't use it as the real thing was firewood by 1902, but I just had to model it! I'm very happy with the colouring on this. It's the same grey as the 2 plank (and the van) but after weathering they look totally different next to each other.

[alanbuttler]

Well I've just sent the artwork off to be etched for:

 

Chassis for the Lime Wagon

Chassis for Box Van

Panels for Box van including alternate ends for Mawddwy Road van

A load of coupling hooks

A tester set of panels for 'Seaham'

An assortment of GWR numberplates

Etched corner plates for the Lime wagon (the 3D printed ones weren't up to much IMO) 

A test of a set  of Compensated W irons in Brecon & Merthyr style

 

Can't wait for the results! 

 

When I'm at that point it would be great if you could give a 5 min run through of the process Alan, I'm planning to get the frames for the overhead cranes etched after seeing your great results on here  The lime wagon looks good, I can imagine it already in a long rake behind a dean goods, such as that photo of 2516 through Oswestry 

[Quarryscapes]

Have a look at this Alan: http://www.ppdltd.com/Drawing_Guidelines.html, that's the basic spec for etch artwork. As long as you make sure you don't have any overlapping lines or small gaps at corners/ends etc you'll be fine.

 

The hardest part is visualising how it's all going to fold up and making the necessary allowances dimensionally. 

[PenrithBeacon]

Have a look at this Alan: http://www.ppdltd.com/Drawing_Guidelines.html, that's the basic spec for etch artwork. As long as you make sure you don't have any overlapping lines or small gaps at corners/ends etc you'll be fine.

 

The hardest part is visualising how it's all going to fold up and making the necessary allowances dimensionally.

I took a look at this website a few moments ago and found that 'click rights are disabled'. This means that I can't even close down the webpage unless I reboot the computer. I think this supplier is well worth avoiding.

 

Regards

[Jol Wilkinson]

There have been several threads on this subject on RMweb which the search function may help you find.

 

There are also some good guidelines to be found here;

 

http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/HowToPapers.shtm 

 

Despite what you may read, you do not need AutoCad to produce etch artwork. A good 2D program such as CorelDraw or Illustrator is more than adequate.

[5050]

Here's some I made earlier!  A lot earlier, probably around 30 years ago IIRC.  All scratchbuilt from plasticard using Mike Lloyd's drawings mainly with adapted commercial running gear and hand lettered although I think someone was marketing Cambrian axleboxes etc. at the time.  Buffers were adapted from some commercial ones.  I also have (somewhere!!) a van built from a Model Wagon Co. cast kit - but I can't find it!  I'm aware that the brakevan should have Red ends, one day I'll repaint them.....................

 

The wagons are compensated and on P4 wheels but standing on my US HO layout (as can be seen by the vehicles in the background!).

 

I remember one of the lime wagons being parked in a siding at Porth-y-waen in the early 60's and I think it was the one that Mike measured up for his drawing.

 

The 'darker' low-side wagon was built by Dave Goodwin ('Mostyn' layout etc.) and presented to me at a Cambrian Railways Modelling Circle meeting.  He used a different paint to me, mine was a Humbrol Authentic one from the Military range, possibly a German Light Equipment Grey?  Lettering was done with a mapping pen and thinned poster colour (I think!).

 

I have a Jidenco kit for the 'double end' brakevan, one day I might steel myself sufficiently to have a go at it!

[mike morley]

The Jidenco/Falcon Brass Cambrian guards van was the first etched kit I ever tackled. 

Every so often I would take it out of the cupboard, look at it, whimper, then put it back.  When, after several years of doing that I finally plucked up the courage to start it I found that although the instructions are truly appalling, the kit itself isn't actually that bad.

The main problem I found was that there aren't all that many fold lines and quite a few of those it does have are in the wrong place.  Even that wasn't the problem it might have been because they were so far from where they ought to have been the error was blatantly obvious, so unlikely to catch anyone out.