10t CR and LSWR Vans

[Garethp8873]

Dear Members,

 

Does anyone know where I can get some 10t CR or LSWR Vans in plastic kit form? If not is there a possibility of getting any commissioned at all? I have several LSWR 10t Vans which are on Coopercraft chassis, but I am not sure that Coopercraft did so LSWR 10t vans.

 

Also I am looking for some articles on the 10t CR vans. Can anyone tell me where I can read up any articles on these vans?

 

Garethp8873.

[jwealleans]

I'm not a specialist in either railway but the only kits I'm aware of for either are whitemetal.

 

Have you considered resin casting? You could either build a master or have one made.

 

If you're looking to commission something I'd have thought Cambrian (Barry posts on here) or Parkside would be your best bets.

[flubrush]

Also I am looking for some articles on the 10t CR vans. Can anyone tell me where I can read up any articles on these vans?

 

I'm just about to start scratchbuilding some Caledonian 10T vans and I'm using a drawing by Kenneth Werrett in the February 1963 Model Railway News as my main source of data. This drawing also has a lot of detail of the door fittings. There's also a good photo of the van in "Caledonian Cavalcade" (Glen, Glen & Dunbar). I've had a quick check through the NRM list and the only possible drawing is marked as having an underframe for 3' 9" wheels.

 

There's also the HMRS and the Caledonian Railway Association as further sources of information.

 

Jim.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The ever useful SEMG site lists all the SR kits that have been available. http://www.semgonline.com/model/00goodskits.html

[iak]

Caley 10 tonners = http://www.51l.co.uk/crd067osf.htm

LSWR Vans = http://www.davidgeen.co.uk/catalogue/lswr.htm

 

OK so they are whitmetal but they are of the genre, some of the best

[The Stationmaster]

If you are interested in an LSWR van have a look in 'For Sale' under my s/n

[Garethp8873]

I'm not a specialist in either railway but the only kits I'm aware of for either are whitemetal.

 

Have you considered resin casting? You could either build a master or have one made.

 

If you're looking to commission something I'd have thought Cambrian (Barry posts on here) or Parkside would be your best bets.

 

How would I go about doing resin casting out of interest?

 

I'm just about to start scratchbuilding some Caledonian 10T vans and I'm using a drawing by Kenneth Werrett in the February 1963 Model Railway News as my main source of data. This drawing also has a lot of detail of the door fittings. There's also a good photo of the van in "Caledonian Cavalcade" (Glen, Glen & Dunbar). I've had a quick check through the NRM list and the only possible drawing is marked as having an underframe for 3' 9" wheels.

 

There's also the HMRS and the Caledonian Railway Association as further sources of information.

 

Jim.

 

Do you have any pics of your vans in progress? It may interest you but I have been taking photos of the two CR vans on the SVR 302080 and 304543. If you want to look at the photos please view the link below:

 

LMS 10t Van 302080 and 304543

 

If you are interested in an LSWR van have a look in 'For Sale' under my s/n

 

Could you send me any pics of the van and also I take it is metal.

 

Garethp8873.

[Rail-Online]

Hi,

There is also a CR van at Boness.

 

Cheers Tony

[karabuni]

I'm not a specialist in either railway but the only kits I'm aware of for either are whitemetal.

 

Have you considered resin casting? You could either build a master or have one made.

 

If you're looking to commission something I'd have thought Cambrian (Barry posts on here) or Parkside would be your best bets.

 

So he does.

 

The van we have in mind is LSWR D1408, which has the underframe that will be used on the forthcoming LSWR 8 plank (D1316) - which has been started on.

Perhaps one day: LSWR Brake van to D1543 ("new vans").

 

For some idea about commissioned mould prices, a side & end for a 4mm van would be in the region of ??400 plus VAT. There is no minimum order for mouldings (charged extra to mould cost).

 

Barry,

Cambrian Models.

[Phil Traxson]

How would I go about doing resin casting out of interest?

 

Garethp8873.

 

For resin casting you would need to produce (i.e. scratchbuild) a side and an end. Easiest done in plastic sheet and strip, Slaters/Evergreen etc., build it on a backing of 80 thou plastic sheet 3mm to 5mm larger all round than the finished part. Of course if you feel more confident in metal or wood these can also be used. The choice is yours as to whether you butt joint sides to ends or use 45 degree chamfers, if the former sides between ends is the best way so remember that the ends will be the total width of the van minus twice the thickness of the sides. On 7mm vans I have cast using this method the sole bars are built onto a floor for the vehicle and the buffer beam is part of the ends.

The idea of using plastic sheet is that you produce one really good pattern, if its not quite right throw it away, take your time and make a better one, don't try and bodge it right. Plastic is cheap, your time is the most expensive part of the proceedings.

From there you decide whether to cast them yourself or pass them to someone such as myself who will cast them for you. Rough costings for me to make them using your patterns would be around ??3.00 for side mould, ??1.50 for end mould. A set of castings for one van would be about ??2.50. Each mould would make about 20--25 castings i.e. 10---12 vehicles.

I can supply you with the address of my material suppliers or you could get in touch with Alec Tiranti's whose address I can't lay my hands on at the moment, but I believe they are based some where in the London area, Google would be your friend here! You would need their fast casting resin.

I don't know where you are based but I attend Exhibitions (under my Port Wynnstay Models banner) all over the country and am always willing to talk people through doing their own mouldmaking and casting and at some shows I demontrate casting as well.

 

 

Phil Traxson

[Phil Traxson]

Just a P.S. to my previous posting , the prices quoted are for 4mm scale vehicles.

 

Phil Traxson

[Barry Rhys]

The choice is yours as to whether you butt joint sides to ends or use 45 degree chamfers, if the former sides between ends is the best way so remember that the ends will be the total width of the van minus twice the thickness of the sides. On 7mm vans I have cast using this method the sole bars are built onto a floor for the vehicle and the buffer beam is part of the ends.

 

Phil, I think this is the wrong way around. (Hope I'm not about to embarrass myself!!) "Sides between ends" generally means that the ends are made full width to the body outside width dimension, and the sides fit inside (ie. between) the full width ends, hence the sides will be the total length of the van minus twice the thickness of the ends.

 

Alternatively, "ends between sides" would mean that the sides are made full length to the body outside length dimension, and the ends fit inside (ie. between) the full length sides, hence the ends will be the total width of the van minus twice the thickness of the sides.

 

If I understand your description of the 7mm van castings correctly, since the buffer beam needs to extend the full width of the van end anyway, I can imagine that you are indeed recommending designing with "sides between ends" to avoid the buffer beam having to be cast protruding outside a narrowed van end. However in that case , the length of the sides needs to be reduced by twice the thickness of the ends.

 

Do you agree? My apologies if I've misunderstood something.

 

Anyway, thanks for describing the basic pattern making process. Could you just clear a couple of things up please:

 

For an open wagon instead of a van, obviously there would be no inside detail, but what would be a minimum reasonable wall thickness that can be achieved (say, for a typical 4mm scale 5-plank open) before the sides would become fragile - I'm just wondering how 'chunky' the body sides would appear?

 

Is there any shrinkage of the resin, presumably while setting, that needs accounting for when making the patterns?

 

Can the patterns be reused for further moulds, or are they destroyed in the mould making process? (I'm guessing they can be reused, but I've learned that guessing is not always wise!)

 

I realise that the prices are only approximate, but I assume you mean that the mould costs (fixed cost of GBP 3.00 for one side mould and GBP 1.50 for one end mould) are not included in the casting costs (ca. GBP 2.50 for each van)? Do the casting costs include the material costs? I must admit those estimates make the total cost sound very economical, even for just a few wagons.

 

Thanks, Neil

[Phil Traxson]

Phil, I think this is the wrong way around. (Hope I'm not about to embarrass myself!!) "Sides between ends" generally means that the ends are made full width to the body outside width dimension, and the sides fit inside (ie. between) the full width ends, hence the sides will be the total length of the van minus twice the thickness of the ends.

 

Alternatively, "ends between sides" would mean that the sides are made full length to the body outside length dimension, and the ends fit inside (ie. between) the full length sides, hence the ends will be the total width of the van minus twice the thickness of the sides.

 

If I understand your description of the 7mm van castings correctly, since the buffer beam needs to extend the full width of the van end anyway, I can imagine that you are indeed recommending designing with "sides between ends" to avoid the buffer beam having to be cast protruding outside a narrowed van end. However in that case , the length of the sides needs to be reduced by twice the thickness of the ends.

 

Do you agree? My apologies if I've misunderstood something.

 

Anyway, thanks for describing the basic pattern making process. Could you just clear a couple of things up please:

 

For an open wagon instead of a van, obviously there would be no inside detail, but what would be a minimum reasonable wall thickness that can be achieved (say, for a typical 4mm scale 5-plank open) before the sides would become fragile - I'm just wondering how 'chunky' the body sides would appear?

 

Is there any shrinkage of the resin, presumably while setting, that needs accounting for when making the patterns?

 

Can the patterns be reused for further moulds, or are they destroyed in the mould making process? (I'm guessing they can be reused, but I've learned that guessing is not always wise!)

 

I realise that the prices are only approximate, but I assume you mean that the mould costs (fixed cost of GBP 3.00 for one side mould and GBP 1.50 for one end mould) are not included in the casting costs (ca. GBP 2.50 for each van)? Do the casting costs include the material costs? I must admit those estimates make the total cost sound very economical, even for just a few wagons.

 

Thanks, Neil

 

Must read properly before I send in future, you are quite right Neil my fingers didn't type what my mind thought. It should read ends between sides, that way the protruding buffer beam gives some location for the sides.

 

For an open wagon the thickness can go down to around 40 thou. You have a choice of patterns here, both of which will give internal detailing if you so wish, separate sides and ends which are cast in a pocket mould, or a complete wagon body in one piece, which can include the floor so the internal strapping joining floor to sides can be done. In this latter case the buffer beams have to be part of the chassis not the body.

 

The photo's I (think) have attached show a one piece body on a Festiniog wagon built from a kit I produce. There are 4 resin castings here, body, solebar/buffer beam, inside bearing sub chassis and brake lever. Bought in whitemetal buffers and Gibson wheels complete the kit. Do bear in mind this is 7mm scale the sides are chunky on the real thing! Boy don't close ups like this show up my modelling deficiencies.

 

There is no allowance needed for shrinkage or taper for release from the mould.

 

 

The patterns can be reused, my 0-16.5 Festiniog Bug Box patterns were made by me for the previous owner of my business in 1991 and I'm still using them today.

 

The costs I quoted do include the materials.

 

Regards

Phil T.