RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 13, 2014 Just get them to confirm those decoders. I am pretty sure they will work. The SD9's might be tight though. If I get chance tonight I may have a go at one of mine as I have a spare DZ125. Ian Update: Thats a useful link to an SD9 installation. I would probably change to LED 's for the lights though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 There's also this: http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/N_Scale/N_Search/search.html#page_top TCS M1 decoders seem to be in short supply at the moment though. I'll have a look for the Digitrax ones see if they have them. The SD60 does seem simple enough though. I'd like to get the SD9s and GP50 done ready for TVNAM as I get the feeling that switching with an SD70MAC or AC4400CW will be... a bit overkill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 The Kato GP50 (and GP38-2 which uses the same chassis design) needs a hard-wired small decoder (I've used Lenz Silver Minis, but anything that size will do). The chassis assembly is not like anything else, but adding a decoder is relatively simple and doesn't require complete disassembly (this is a very good thing). You need to remove the channel that the rear light sits in to make room for the decoder, but then it is just a case of cutting traces on the board, isolating the motor terminals, and soldering in the decoder. I'll see if I can't take a few pics. I also replaced the bulbs with LEDs at the same time. If you look at Spookshow's picture http://www.spookshow.net/katogp50.html you basically have to cut away the section at the upper right of the chassis. The power is conducted to the board from the pickups through long screws that hold the pickup plates to the (plastic) walkway and retain the trucks. Try not to have the trucks come off - it can be a bit of a faff to reinstall them. The chassis block is also live to one side, but the motor is isolated from it except for the tabs to the brushes. Also, be careful when taking the shell off the GP50. Make sure you release the handrail from the cab at all four points and ensure it stays released while you slide the shell off (handrail/walkway are part of the chassis assembly). The shell tends to release on one go and can tear off the handrail ends if they are still attached to the cab. Getting (good) spare walkways is probematic. They are nice locos, with lots of weight. The U25B should be able to take a TCS CN-GP split decoder, the SD9 a small wired one, and as mentioned ths SD60 is a pretty simple install of a Digitrax DN163A0 or equivalent decoder from TCS or NCE. You do have to take all of these chassis apart (so be aware that bits will try to escape) and, for the SD60, it is usually a good idea to solder the motor tabs to the pads on decoder (if your fine soldering skills are up to it). Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 Excellent, thanks for the advice guys! Quite the expensive shopping list I am accumulating! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Here are the photos of my GP50 (now a GP59 using bits of a resin conversion shell). Decoder is a Lenz Silver Mini. Overview: Detail showing cut away area: Top view: The finished (well almost, still missing the horn cluster) loco: Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 13, 2014 Adrian That Kato GP50 is very differnet to other Kato GP50 is very different to other Kato locos that I have seen inside. A very neat decoder installation I converted a Life Like SD9 as per the link that Daniel posted using a Digitrax DZ125 tonight. I was going to convert the light to LED but forgot that I had already done so 10 years or so ago so that was strightforward to connect up to the decoders function wires. One thing to watch with these SD9's is that any pressure on the bogies can squash the wiper pick ups that press onto the underside of the chassis. This can cause erratic behaviour especially on DCC. Ian PS. I found that the body lifted slighlty where the headlight wires ran across the top of the motor so I removed the dynamic blister and carefully filed a 1/4 inch wide groove in the underside. This has to be done carefully otherwise you might file too far through the moudling and it could snap. After holding the wires down with a bit of canopy glue till it went tacky, I then placed the dynamic moulding back over the motor and glued it with solvent back onto the body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Good luck fitting decoders. I'm as ham fisted as they come, but found it reasonably easy. Here's a shot from the archive. It is an Atlas B23-7 with a Lenz mini under the rear of the PCB. Later I changed the LEDs to white The atlas locos are easy to dis-assemble and frame trimming is easy. I have a coarse file from B&Q that trims allow with no problem. Another one from the archive with a Lenz mini. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Adrian That Kato GP50 is very differnet to other Kato locos that I have seen inside. A very neat decoder installation Yes, the GP38-2 (very similar inside) and the GP50 were the first two North American Kato locos and are completely different than anything else. They do run well and have very heavy chassis (so pull well). They only ever came with truck-mounted Rapidos and open pilots, but MicroTrains makes a coupler conversion including a bracket that fills in the open pilots which, despite being designed specifically for the loco, needs some fettling to fit. Good luck fitting decoders. I'm as ham fisted as they come, but found it reasonably easy. Here's a shot from the archive. It is an Atlas B23-7 with a Lenz mini under the rear of the PCB. Later I changed the LEDs to white The atlas locos are easy to dis-assemble and frame trimming is easy. I have a coarse file from B&Q that trims allow with no problem. Another one from the archive with a Lenz mini. I'm not quite sure why you would go to the trouble of frame modifications and hardwiring those locos since drop-in decoders are available for them (and have been for a long time) including a Lenz* one for the Atlas loco (the other is a Kato). I would understand if they were split light board chassis (although TCS now makes a decoder designed for them too). *LE063XF, supplied in the DCC Fitted versions. An Ok decoder, but predating the current Gold/Silver/Standard family. Adrian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Adrian, the drop in Lenz board was 'noisy', the mini decoders were silent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2014 I had recently bought a TCS split decoder to fit into my last s Kato loco that required a decoder. This SD45 had not been used since I sold California Coast back in 2009. To fit the TCS decoder, the chassis halves require separating. It's fairly straightforward but best to do this where you won't lose any of the parts. I did have to file down a small area of the chassis to clear some of the components under the front board then apply a small piece of insulation. I also filed a small vertical groove in the chassis halves where thr motor wire pass through above the motor. This conversion took about 40 minutes this morning. It's working but I ran out of time to change the CV values. I have carried out this conversion on the Life Like GP60 and Atlas GP40's that don't have the ability to take a drop in board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I had recently bought a TCS split decoder to fit into my last s Kato loco that required a decoder. This SD45 had not been used since I sold California Coast back in 2009. To fit the TCS decoder, the chassis halves require separating. It's fairly straightforward but best to do this where you won't lose any of the parts. I did have to file down a small area of the chassis to clear some of the components under the front board then apply a small piece of insulation. I also filed a small vertical groove in the chassis halves where thr motor wire pass through above the motor. This conversion took about 40 minutes this morning. It's working but I ran out of time to change the CV values. I have carried out this conversion on the Life Like GP60 and Atlas GP40's that don't have the ability to take a drop in board. Looks good. Did you have to shorten the wires? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2014 Looks good. Did you have to shorten the wires? Yes I did but still left enough slack in case a wire breaks at some point in the future when carrying out maintenance. I just have to be careful that I don't trap a wire down the side of the chassis when putting the body back on. EDIT The only downside of using the TCS decoder is that it doesn't support transponding which I use on the layout so this loco cannot be a lead loco in a consist Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Yes I did but still left enough slack in case a wire breaks at some point in the future when carrying out maintenance. I just have to be careful that I don't trap a wire down the side of the chassis when putting the body back on. Ian Thanks for that. I have some Atlas RS-3s to do (but it's a little way down on my to do list) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I typically shorten the wires a bit more so they are almost straight and flat (I have no qualms about re-soldering wires if necessary) and I have taken to feeding the orange and grey wires through the (slightly enlarged) hole where the clip fits. It does make things a bit more complicated as the chassis halves and the motor are all now attached together. I also don't know how well it will hold up in the long term, but it makes for a very neat install. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 Here's a fun one for you chaps - what and how would you convert an Arnold GP30 to DCC? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 This? http://www.spookshow.net/loco/arnoldgp.html It is going to be a road slug? I'd be inclined to make it a dummy. I have one of those (not currently working) and it is residing in my 'unmitigated junk' box. IIRC it also has very deep flange wheels. If you are really serious about converting it to DCC I'll have a look at mine. I don't recall how the power is transferred to the motor, so I'd have to disassemble it and see. From the description in the review that Mark quotes, I'd think you would have to mill out space for a decoder in the fuel tank and use the circuit board (with some traces cut) to connect everything. That matches what I remeber about the mechanism. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 Yeah, I think I'll just make it a dummy and get myself a decent GP35 or something to hook it up to, then get another GP-30 by a more reputable manufacturer and get that one converted to DCC to tack my GP-40 to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 For a decent GP30 or GP35, the only real choice is Atlas (and not the Roco-made GP30). The earlier ones have a split light board chassis, so need a setup like roundhouse's SD45 above, while the later ones take a board-replacement decoder and would ideally be the ones to go for. As it is a road slug and hence a later rebuild, I think it really neets to be paired with a GP38/38-2 or a GP40/40-2, and ideally a -2. This limits your choices somewhat: GP38-2 from Atlas (chassis variations as above), Kato (chassis as the GP50), or LifeLike/Walthers (early a bit crude with a chassis as your SD9*, late with a nice chassis that unfortunately needs a hardwired decoder). GP40-2 from Atlas (chassis variations as above). For a pre -2 loco (GP38 or GP40), your choice is Atlas - don't touch anything else. *I have a couple of the early LifeLike ones, but they are in my 'basically junk' box as I can't be bothered trying to turn them into something that matches the quality (running or looks) of the Atlas, Kato, and later LifeLike/Walthers ones. I have examples of all of these. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I've had a chance to look at my Arnold Rapido/Revell GP30, and a DCC conversion would be possible. The pickups and motor contacts are simple and would just require the traces on the circuit board to be cut. The tricky bit would be finding space for the decoder. I would be inclined to file out a hollow in the bottom of the fuel tank/weight and run the wires around one end. The tricky bit is that the fuel tank clipped into the shell provides for the positioning of the motor so the gears stay in mesh, so you can't compromise the clips or the nub on the top of the fuel tank that bears on the motor. You also couldn't really carve away part of the chassis block without compromising the clips that retain the trucks, unless you hacked off the rear to put the decoder in vertically, which would leave a routing problem for the wires. It is a truly weird design. The shell has the shorter nose, so it won't fit on the Atlas chassis (Atlas shell has the longer nose) Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 So basically, rip out the motor and use it as a dummy? I'll look around for an Atlas GP-38 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 So basically, rip out the motor and use it as a dummy? I'll look around for an Atlas GP-38 Take out the motor and the worms, but leave the circuit board - otherwise the trucks will short as both side pickups will be touching the chassis block. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Thanks, advice like this is greatly appreciated by this dcc newb. On your advice I went looking around for an atlas gp40. Eventually found one on the bay of e already fitted with a tcs m1 decoder for £38 delivered. Once it arrives I'll give it a repaint and hook it up to the gp30. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Guys, Any ideas on whether the Atlas SW1500 (the early one based on the prototype that was different to the production model of the real loco) has the potential for DCC fitting? Cheers, Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Guys, Any ideas on whether the Atlas SW1500 (the early one based on the prototype that was different to the production model of the real loco) has the potential for DCC fitting? Cheers, Dan Aside from the fact it has the problem of all small switchers (where to put the decoder), it should be relatvely simple. I think the only way to find space for the decoder would be to remove the weight in the cab, or possibly fit a very thin decoder above the chassis in place of the light pipe. Either way you would need to find an alternate way of providing lighting (the bulb resides in the cab). Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2014 I have a Atlas SW1500 but have a sneaking suspicion that I may have taken it our of the stock box and it might still be DC only. Will try and remember to find it and have a look inside. I completed a decoder installation in another Life Like SD9 yesterday morning. It runs very nicely. The previous one wasnt perfect but that is also now running well when I found out that one of the bogie wiper pickups was rubbing on the chassis, just not the contact strip! ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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