Road vehicles

[Il Grifone]

Starting with Dinky, apart from the Dublo Dinky range, for 00 there were really only the buses (the figures too, but they have their own topic).

 

The following are supposedly 4mm scale (5/32" : 1 foot according to Meccano Limited, but they did rather pretend the metric system did not exist)

 

29b  Streamline Bus

29c/290/291  Double Deck Bus (2 versions - AEC and Leyland) Morestone/Budgie produced an almost identical model)

29e  Single Deck Bus

29f/280  Observation Coach

29g  Luxury Coach

29h  Duple Roadmaster - Leyland Royal Tiger

 

283 B.O.A.C. Airport Coach

 

289  Routemaster (also from Corgi) - should have a conductress (blonde in the case of Corgi), but she has usually gone missing

 

291/295/297 2 door  Leyland Atlantean (Apparently, actually a Daimler Fleetline)

292  Single door Leyland Atlantean

 

Most came in a variety of colours, which are of extreme interest to vehicle collectors (but less so to us, who possibly would prefer a code 3 in an authentic livery? - wrecks candidates for TLC can be obtained reasonably - pristine examples cost a fortune)

 

Some of these have rather obscure prototypes - Meccano seemed to be fond of oddities.

 

I'll try and post some pictures (don't hold your breath - various jobs threaten to consume valuable modelling/internet time)

[BernardTPM]

The 289 Routemaster was rather oversize for 00 as was the later Corgi version, though the '60s Corgi RM was very close to 4mm.

[Il Grifone]

The 289 Routemaster was rather oversize for 00 as was the later Corgi version, though the '60s Corgi RM was very close to 4mm.

 

Maybe (I don't own one to measure it) I can't remember where I got this from, but some of the lists are dubious  - not helped by the manufacturers being reticent regarding scale), only the earlier Corgi version, which is as you say close to 4mm. It just seems to be to rather 'chunky', but that could just be my opinion. The later version is larger, though again I don't have one.

 

1:72 is often passed off as 00, but is noticeably too large, but can be useful for 'forced perspective'. The Dinky Leyland Forward Control Lorry (25r/420) is to this scale (according to Meccano Ltd.), but, being rather long like the Dublo containers, looks strange. There's an interesting, but possibly overpriced, 'code 3' fitted with lights here.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dinky-Leyland-Forward-Control-Lorry-with-working-lights-syled-by-Cobra-/161236259583?pt=UK_ToysGames_DiecastVehicles_DiecastVehicles_JN&hash=item258a6e12ff

 

EDIT

 

I found this about the probable prototype of the Dinky 29c double decker.

 

http://www.countrybus.org/RT/RT.htm

[PhilJ W]

The Dinky 29c bus was based on the STL/STD not the RT, the giveaway is five window bays not four and the small window on the staircase. Don't forget the Matchbox M-O-Y Diddler Trolleybus and Leyland Titan that were both 1/76 scale. There was also the various Hong Kong plastic models, some were very crude but others were very good, I have some that are an exact copy of the Dinky 'Yellow Pages' bus except that they are entirely plastic.

[Il Grifone]

The Dinky 29c bus was based on the STL/STD not the RT, the giveaway is five window bays not four and the small window on the staircase. Don't forget the Matchbox M-O-Y Diddler Trolleybus and Leyland Titan that were both 1/76 scale. There was also the various Hong Kong plastic models, some were very crude but others were very good, I have some that are an exact copy of the Dinky 'Yellow Pages' bus except that they are entirely plastic.

 

Thanks (I'm not a bus expert and didn't count the windows). I'll investigate the Matchbox models. There are some Lledo buses (single and double deckers), but I'm not sure of the scale of these - they seem about right.

 

This is the right page

 

http://www.countrybus.org/STL/STL10.htm#top

[PhilJ W]

The Lledo buses are HO scale, their horse bus however is very close to 00 scale and with better horses and harness would make a good model.

[Il Grifone]

The Lledo buses are HO scale, their horse bus however is very close to 00 scale and with better horses and harness would make a good model.

 

That would seem reasonable - back of the layout! The single decker is quite a small prototype anyway but usually comes with a pair of roof boards. They can be removed but a lot of graft and hassle is involved.

 

I have a horse bus somewhere. IIRC the horses are rather large, though the rest of the bus seemed about right - I've not been able to find any dimensions though.

[roythebus]

The Lesney horse bus was to 100 scale. The Dinky doubler decker came in several radiator variants, already mentioned the AEC and Leyland, but I also have one with what may be a Maudslay radiator and another which I can't really identify. Later Leylands had plastic wheels. I keep meaning to super-detail one to see what it would look like!

 

Quite a few Matchbox cars are passable for 1:76 scale.

 

It was not until the late 1960s when Anbrico started producing cast metal bus kits, followed by me with the GS Models range, Jim Varney, Pirate Models, Westward, Sutherland and a plethora of others. A lot of thee ranges were later bought up by AdrianBS of these pages who produced most of my kits.

 

The death knell of the cast kits was the introduction of the EFE range.

[Il Grifone]

The only Dinky radiators I can recall seeing are the AEC and Leyland. I would be interested in seeing others.

 

Somewhere I have a list of the scales of at least some of the Matchbox 1-75 range. They vary considerably (even more 'fit the box' than Dinky). Apparently the dimensions on some of the models were tweaked to make them 'look right'. It didn't work! For example, the Vauxhall Cresta (no.22) seems to suffer from this - it appears too wide IMHO. (I could be wrong not having measured one up.)

[PhilJ W]

The Dinky bus radiator was a 'generic' design, though many regarded as a Guy radiator.  One of the best Matchbox vehicles for 00 IMHO was the Morris J2 pick up truck but others were not so good. The Minix range were generally very accurate and well detailed but let down by the wheels which were crude metal stampings.

[Il Grifone]

I don't have many 'Minix' - they usually command a premium - but did get a Sunbeam Alpine in a bright yellow quite reasonably.

 

They're described here rather better than I can.

 

http://www.garyscars.co.uk/minix/listing.htm

 

Earlier in the fifties, there was a range of Minic plastic lorries best described as crude IMHO*. One or two shared loads with the Tri-ang low sided wagon.

 

* Their best feature was a 'push and go' motor.

 

Here's the bus (suffering from acetate warp)

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tri-ang-Minic-London-RT-Bus-Plastic-Friction-wheels-/251237140546?pt=UK_ToysGames_DiecastVehicles_DiecastVehicles_JN&hash=item3a7ee68842

 

 

There was also a larger (circa 0) scale tinplate series - these go for serious money these days.

 

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/triang-minic

 

Then there was the Minic Motorway electric slot system, but most of these were overscale (to get the motor in). I always wanted one of the steam lorries, but it required rather more cash than I had available. Peco announced they were going to produce a flexible road to go with this, but AFAIK it never appeared.

[roythebus]

Minic Motorways had a passable Routemater and a rather better Bedford coach. I still have the body of one somewhere around.

[PhilJ W]

Aurora produced an electric road system in HO scale at the same time as Minic Motorways called IIRC Highways. They only made four vehicles, a Jaguar XK140, a Mercedes sports car, an American sedan and an American stake side truck both based on either Ford or Chevrolet prototypes. Although ostensibly HO scale they were a lot closer to 00 scale, the power units were of the 'make and break' type rather than conventional motors. They were very good representations of the prototypes but for some reason they did not sell very well in the UK. They sometimes come up on e-bay, usually the set with the two sports cars, the 'American' set with the sedan and truck is extremely rare.

[Il Grifone]

I've been measuring up a few Matchbox and Husky models. The Husky Citroën DS Safari is almost spot on 1:76, whereas the Matchbox Rolls-Royce Phantom V (1963 model) is rather variable being rather narrow. This is supposedly 1:80 (OK for the Preiser Wedding figures SWMBO gave me, with careful placement) or it could be passed off as the similar, but smaller, Silver Cloud.)

 

The MOY traction engine and steam roller are supposedly 1:80, but again are passble. Unfortunately (or fortunately for TT modellers) the lorries are 1:100, though I have drawings of a 1911 Daimler which is similar to the 'Osram lorry' (I cut one of these down to make a flat coal delivery lorry- in the days before they became collector's items).

 

Checking the Corgi Routemaster, it is 33/34 mm wide, which accounts for the chunkiness (it should be 32mm) and slightly long at 112 mm or so. the heavy panelling (shared with the Dinky version) doesn't help either.

[BernardTPM]

The later 1970s/80s Corgi Routemaster was considerably bigger than that, nearer to the size of the Dinky one. Back in the '60s just 2mm too long and 1mm or so too wide was pretty good!

The Husky Citroen Safari makes a good companion for the Matchbox saloon version. Also the Matchbox Jaguar Mk.1 240 is pretty much spot on for 4mm while the Husky Mk.10/X type is a bit too small though physically bigger then the Matchbox Mk.1, just not enough bigger. I did wonder about combining parts of each to make a 'S' type, though it would take a lot of cutting and shutting.

[Il Grifone]

I found a website which shows the Dinky model as about the same length as the early Corgi one, but without one to measure, I can't comment. There is also a Budgie Routemaster (and lots of Chinese copies).

 

I'll post some links later.

 

EDIT for keyboard trouble

[BernardTPM]

The Dinky catalogue gives the length of their RM as 4.75"/121mm, so 9mm longer than the old Corgi (and presumably a similar proportion wider and taller). The later Corgi RM was 123mm long, so much the same as the Dinky.

[Il Grifone]

I found this site, which gives photos against a scale (the bottom one) for the Dinky 289 Routemaster, following this the Dinky is 117mm long (1 or 2 mm accounted for by the excessive casting of the radiator grille) and 57 or 58mm high. ( I wouldn't want to argue with Meccano Ltd., but even they were not infallible - a model of a 'Deltic' comes to mind! - but not having one to measure up.)

 

http://little-wheels.co.uk/?q=models/view/8135

 

From Wikipedia, An RM Routemaster is 27'6" long  (RML 30'), 14' 4½" high and 8' wide.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routemaster

 

The Corgi I have is 113mm long, about (the wheels are off during a repaint*) 58mm high and 33/4mm wide (it varies a bit along the length of the body).

 

They are thus about the same (and near enough correct height) and slightly too long (unless they are intended to be RMLs in which case they are too short). The Corgi at least is too wide by a good 6" but careful placement would hide that.

 

I must try and get hold of an example of the Dinky model!

 

* My Corgi bus was severely chipped on the roof and rubbed on the raised mouldings (playworn), though the transfers are reasonable. The red is too light to my eye at least. So a dilemma - try to match the Corgi red or LT red? According to this site, it's close to RAL3002. Painting it with Vallejo Carmine Red (acrylic so easily removable), which claims to be this colour, looks much more convincing, though possibly too dark and I don't know what happened to the "orangey" referred to.

 

http://www.rmoof.co.uk/Paint%20for%20your%20Routemaster.htm

 

EDIT

 

http://londonbus.me.uk/1960.html

 

I think the 1/64 quoted here for the Dinky and Corgi buses is rather dubious. Especially cohsidering the Budgie and Seerol are quoted as different scales - AFAIK the latter is a reissue of the former. The Seerol measures L107mm H 58mm W 32mm so is  a few mm short but spot on otherwise (unfortunately it is rather crude (though the panelling is much finer) and has the deadful 'speedwheels' - but they were sold for the tourist market - mine has the remains of 'London Transport Sightseeing Tour' stickers on the sides.

 

One from our 'friend' here (at the usual ridiculous price - they're around a fiver new).

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BUDGIE-SEEROL-MODEL-No-XXX-AEC-ROUTEMASTER-BUS-HOUSES-PARLIMENT-MIB-/300982038864?pt=UK_ToysGames_DiecastVehicles_DiecastVehicles_JN&hash=item4613ed7150

[BernardTPM]

They're all definitely RMs rather than RMLs as the latter have a half-size window in the middle of both decks, bumping them up the extra 2 1/2 foot to 30ft. The old Corgi RM is unusual/wrong in having the wind down windows moulded quite prominently on all four window bays. On the plus side it had a crew, driver and female clippie. I don't think any other RM model has had that! Also much of the excess height is due to modelling the cream line twice, both as part of the upper floor and also in the metal casting. Take that out the surplus layer and it comes down to about scale height. There's also a very thick front numberplate fitting which probably accounts for more than 1mm of the excess length.

Interestingly the Seerol model is now the Oxford diecast model - this used to be mentioned on their website, under history of ODC but I can't find it there now. In it's day it was a reasonable model at a good price, though it does have one fault - the front upstairs doesn't taper in for the first window bay - this is still apparent on the ODC castings .

[Il Grifone]

I hadn't noticed the taper (or lack of it!) and my Seerol looks just like the ODC version (apart from being red - too light in my opinion - only EFE seem to have the right colour in my link) and ODC seem to have dropped the 'speedwheels'. This must be the longest production run for a casting?

 

The Dinky RM also has a driver and blonde clippie (I didn't realise she was blonde too - I read somewhere that the Corgi one was blonde as a 'big deal' so assumed the Dinky one was a brunette (they are usually missing - like the platform handrail which is always in the wrong place anyway.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dinky-Toys-Routemaster-Bus-Advert-Print-Framed-And-Memo-Board-Available-/370912710317?pt=UK_art_prints_GL&var=&hash=item565c1ecead

 

 

The wind down windows hold the glazing in, so are probably on all four windows for this reason, but removal of the extra cream line appears not to be easy due to the design of the casting (I think I'll ignore it!)

[BernardTPM]

Dinky must have dropped the crew sometime in the 1970s then. Interesting.

[andyman7]

Dinky must have dropped the crew sometime in the 1970s then. Interesting.

The crew were deleted from 1976 - a period of constant cost cutting as wages and other costs rose and Dinky (and other manufacturers) desperately tried to retain margins.

 

The 'Seerol' RM was contract manufactured by the company that became Oxford Diecast, which is why they continue to use the casting. It is pretty much a scaled down version of the post-1976 Corgi model - Oxford Diecast initially made use of Corgi's Fforestfach (Swansea) plant for their assembly so there does seem to have been some cross-fertilisation there.