Branch loop and goods yard.

[Classsix T]

Dear All,

 

Whilst my modellers licence is clean (thus far) due to research into the prototypical operation of railways in Britain, I've some questions on the validity of the attached (much simplified) diagram.

 

 

The uppermost line is a bi-directional branchline (single line for most of its length) whilst below that is a lengthy passing loop complete with small goods yard off it.

For the purposes of my layout I have a requirement for goods trains to use the "main" and/or loop to shunt wagons into the yard, necessitating either line for run-round when required leaving the rest of the train clear of the shunt until departure.

I'm thinking (hoping) the dead-ends either end of the loop negate the need for catch/trap points in the yard, or even signalling in the immediate vicinity of it.

The 'boxes either end are where I believe such structures would be and are not in sight of each other or the goods yard by the way, and we're talking 1959 GE section BR(E) lest that makes a difference.

 

Or is it all a load of blocks?

 

C6T.

 

Oops! Didn't put the signal boxes on, basically at the pointwork either end of the loop.

[Spitfire2865]

Im no expert but the crossing probably would be avoided unless necessary.

[jon_1066]

If passenger trains enter the loop then it doesn't work as you've drawn it.  However if only goods trains enter the loop then you should be OK.

[The Stationmaster]

As explained it sounds perfectly ok to me mind you slightly awkward for one train to shunt both sidings of course) but the rest is quite alright and operationally sound.  As already pointed out the loop with the sidings as currently drawn is 'goods only' - add trap points to the two intermediate sidings if the loop is to be used by passenger trains.  What period will it be? 

[The Bigbee Line]

A diamond in the sidings is not impossible, see an example from Peterborough

 

An easy 'cut and shut' job with the peco short diamond.  Looks good in their Code 75.

[EddieB]

In one of my areas of interest (the Great Eastern Stour Valley line) , goods sidings were protected by headshunts until around the 1940s, when they were replaced with trap points.

[The Stationmaster]

A diamond in the sidings is not impossible, see an example from Peterborough

Crescent Shops Peterborough 14 Aug 2003 P1010096.JPG

 

An easy 'cut and shut' job with the peco short diamond.  Looks good in their Code 75.

This arrangement could be found in quite a number of places in yards and sidings on the GWR/Western and it was even designed into a brand new layout in the late 1980s although the job didn't come to fruition in the end.

[Spitfire2865]

A diamond in the sidings is not impossible, see an example from Peterborough

Crescent Shops Peterborough 14 Aug 2003 P1010096.JPG[/url]

 

An easy 'cut and shut' job with the peco short diamond. Looks good in their Code 75.

I stand corrected. Interesting trackwork.

[fender]

I think Coryton, in Devon, once had a very similar track plan.

[Classsix T]

In one of my areas of interest (the Great Eastern Stour Valley line) , goods sidings were protected by headshunts until around the 1940s, when they were replaced with trap points.

Funny you should mention the Stour Valley Eddie as this line isn't a million miles away in terms of area, bit east of Long Melford in fact.

 

I should probably make clear the loop will be strictly goods only.

My reason for asking with regards operation stems from not being absolutely sure on the terms absolute and permissive block working, if indeed these terms are correct for this circumstance.

 

In normal operation all trains will trundle either way on the bi-di main, exchanging tokens at the boxes I have omitted each end of the loop.

Occasionally a freight will be looped to allow a passenger to pass. I imagine a second token would be used for this, for locking the dead-ends out and possibly for a ground frame at the goods yard?

The complicated bit is when a run round is required by the goods loco (two 'boxes, two lines, two tokens?). Would all that token exchanging be undertaken in reality? Am I overthinking it or did safe operation dictate this necessity?

 

C6T.

[Grovenor]

In normal operation all trains will trundle either way on the bi-di main, exchanging tokens at the boxes I have omitted each end of the loop.

Occasionally a freight will be looped to allow a passenger to pass. I imagine a second token would be used for this, for locking the dead-ends out and possibly for a ground frame at the goods yard?

if the loop is used only by occasional freights as you describe there is no need for any signalboxes or a block post, more likely the running line points and traps would have ground frames released by the token. If the freight is to be shut inside while passenger trains run past there would be an intermediate token machine in a hut where the token could be inserted to release another token from either adjacent block post. With all tokens in then the signalmen either side could release the token from the intermediate machine to the freight crew to resume their journey.  Two manned boxes at such a place would really be extravagance, having one manned box would only be justified if the traffic level was such that frequent crossings were needed, not the sort of service you describe.

Keith

[Kris]

From memory there were similar layouts on the SR in places. 

[Classsix T]

if the loop is used only by occasional freights as you describe there is no need for any signalboxes or a block post, more likely the running line points and traps would have ground frames released by the token. If the freight is to be shut inside while passenger trains run past there would be an intermediate token machine in a hut where the token could be inserted to release another token from either adjacent block post. With all tokens in then the signalmen either side could release the token from the intermediate machine to the freight crew to resume their journey. Two manned boxes at such a place would really be extravagance, having one manned box would only be justified if the traffic level was such that frequent crossings were needed, not the sort of service you describe.

Keith

Much appreciated Keith, a concise answer and (now you mention it) forehead slappingly obvious solution.

 

Obviously on a model, traffic services are much more frequent than the prototype but I like to have an idea of how proper working practices dictated running.

 

Any ideas what the loop token machine hut might look like? Any old clapboard shed or a box on a post?

And what sort of connection to the main 'box, wire, rod or telegraph?

 

C6T.