Signals into siding

[Eggesford box]

And if you are wondering why a green handsignal would be considered more cautionery than white it is because in handsignalling it means make the move slowly. ie if you where waving a portion of a train back onto the rest of the train at night you would wave a white light from side to side, as the two portions neared one another you would change the light to green, nowadays its all done by radio/walkitalkie.

[bécasse]

And if you are wondering why a green handsignal would be considered more cautionery than white it is because in handsignalling it means make the move slowly. ie if you where waving a portion of a train back onto the rest of the train at night you would wave a white light from side to side, as the two portions neared one another you would change the light to green, nowadays its all done by radio/walkitalkie.

 

An interesting throwback to the days when white did mean "clear" and green "caution", but it was of course retained that way for a reason, a white to green change was more obvious than a green to white one.

[beast66606]

"Green is go and red is stop - but only white is all right"

 

 

Except when you misread the signals due to a gas light behind them ..

[PinzaC55]

"Green is go and red is stop - but only white is all right"

 

 

Except when you misread the signals due to a gas light behind them ..

 

Or the spectacle glass drops out of the spectacle plate allowing you to see a white light instead of green or red.

[The Stationmaster]

When the Settle & Carlisle line was built there was already a Board of Trade (later to become the Ministry of Transport) requirement that signals be provided at the exit from sidings on to running lines. 

 

There was?  According to Houghton & Foster the Settle & Carlisle opened for freight trains in August 1875 but not even the 1892 version of the Requirements required signals to be provided at the exit from sidings - the only requirement was that the points were to be interlocked with the protecting running signals.  (The 1892 Requirements stated that signals 'may be provided' (at the exit from sidings) not that they were 'required'.

 

More or less, given that the home was usually close by the box, the signalman would usually display the red flag (out of the box window) as the train drew up at the home, the driver would acknowledge it with a pop whistle, the signalman would clear the home and the driver would bring the train to a final stand alongside the box to be given instructions. This isn't precisely what Rule 54 said but was a sensible interpretation, since a lone signalman could't both hold out a red flag (or lamp at night or in fog, etc) and return to the frame to clear the signal.

Why would the Signalman use a red handsignal to stop a train at a stop signal which was working and was in rear of the signalbox  - what on earth was the signal there for?

 

So let's do it properly (assuming the signal is in rear of the signalbox) 

1. Train is stopped at the Home Signal (or whatever signal it is) by the signal being maintained at danger,

2. The signal is cleared and the Signalman shows a red handsignal to stop the train at the signalbox.

3. Signalman verbally instructs Driver what is required to happen.

4. Signalman gives Driver a green handsignal as his authority to move forwards (but unless he has instructed the Driver according;y that handsignal does not give the Driver authority to pass a signal at danger.

 

Rule 54 only covered the last bit (3 & 4 in the list), it had nothing whatsoever to with bringing the train to a stand at the signalbox in the first place.  But thanks anyway for a trip through my past as its somewhat over 40 years ago that I first learnt all this stuff - later we had to learn a new Rule Book!

 

I'm sure the main reason for retaining green for 'slow down'/'move slowly' in shunting handsignals was the major confusion that would result from reversing the meaning of green & white - although we thought about change we certainly rejected it for that reason when we were putting together the 1980s revision of the Rule Book because many people had spent years with it and there was still plenty of shunting taking place on the railway.  Changing the whistle codes might possibly have been seen  by some as a precursor to changing the lamp colours but although it took time to get used to whistles weren't used to anything like the same extent as handlamps in shunting at the time that change was made.

 

Edit to correct typo and add additional final paragraph

[Reorte]

Despite the one or two discussions this seems to have provoked it's great that I have found a place where it seems that I can find the answers to little questions that sometimes plague me. Wretched modern railway network, don't they have any idea how hard changes make it to model accurately? If I ever get more than one 6' section built (all I've got space for at present, I'm operating under some sort of delusion that I'll have the space for what I want someday) I'd like to operate it fairly accurately even if the lamp signals might prove too much of a challenge, so thank you everyone.