Goods Yard Ballasting

[Ray H]

I'm struggling to discover ideas on how to ballast the goods yard on my 4mm layout.

 

I recognise that prototypically the top surface of the track area and the surrounding yard were frequently similar both in level - i.e. the surrounding ground was roughly level with sleeper tops, and of similar material. It is the latter that I'm struggling with. 

 

The track is laid and tested so I don't wish to disturb it. Chris Nevard suggests ballasting as usual to just below sleeper top and then covering the ballast with a thin (?) layer of modelling clay and covering the surrounding ground in the same material.

 

Norman Solomon suggests using potter's grog on top of a thick layer of PVA into which the track is first laid with the grog spread over and pressed into the PVA. Attempts to emulate this idea with chinchilla sand and PVA "painted" between the sleepers failed miserably as did attempting to ballast the track and surrounding ground with the same material and misting water over it before applying diluted PVA - the chinchilla sand appears too light to resist movement when sprayed, no matter how carefully.

 

We've used ash from a domestic fire to some effect on a 7mm layout at our club but I don't think it will look right in 4mm although I could possibly try crushing the ash a bit.

 

Admittedly other things are providing excuses not to press on with the layout keeping me occupied at the moment but I really do want to move the layout forward and am being delayed by not being able to resolve this issue. It's the first time I've tried applying any degree of scenic to a layout and I'd like to achieve a reasonably good result.

 

Are there any other tried and tested options other than to simply ballast the track as normal and not trying to get a similar surface to that of the surrounding area?

[chaz]

On my 7mm layout (Dock Green) we originally used 7mm ballast, but as soon as we had finished it we both agreed (Pete and I) that it looked far too ECML - modern ECML at that; much too good for a fifties backwater yard. We went over it all again with fine sand. Once it had been painted to lose the Sahara look it answered.

I'm not sure whether fine sand would work for 4mm but it might be worth a try - put a bit of spare track on a piece of board and experiment? On Dock Green there is a stretch of track which is completely out of sight (to watchers at shows) and this has several test ballasted sections.

 

Chaz

[Tase]

Ray, have a look at this product from Geoscenics. It may be an option.

 

http://www.geoscenics.co.uk/powders.html

 

hth

[Ray H]

Thanks for the comments.

 

I have some Woodland Scenic cinder ballast which may achieve a similar result to the Geoscenics material in the track area and that could be a way to go. I'm not sure where that leaves me with the general ground area unless I spread a thin layer of the cinders over a layer of PVA on the flat ground which I build up to nearly sleeper top level beforehand.

 

The sand idea has set me thinking as well. I wonder if I could ballast as normal with the cinder ballast and then spread a layer of the chinchilla sand on top of the ballast to "smooth" the surface out slightly before fixing the ballast? The ballast may stop the sand from roaming when the water mist descends! That could be a good basis for an experiment today.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

You may have to make a repeat application of a fine dust like Chinchilla sand. The first application may well get drawn down into the gaps by the dilute adhesive, the second application will then be more likely to stay put as placed. As Chaz suggested, experimenting with the specific materials you have will show. And if it is two applications that may be advantageous: few large areas are absolutely uniform, and this way you can model variation based on the traffic round the yard.

[buffalo]

You may have to make a repeat application of a fine dust like Chinchilla sand...

 

I agree, my road surfaces are still awaiting a third application of chinchilla dust. I've also used Carr's ash ballast with some success on a goods yard surface. With both the ash and the chinchilla dust, I've found that sanding after the PVA has set produces a more convincing surface texture. In fact, if you brush on a dilute PVA coat before sanding, much of the dust is retained giving an even better texture.

 

Nick

[wagonman]

The advantage of using potter's grog as opposed to sand is that grog is porous and so takes up the glue rather better. That said I'd still go for the commercial ash ballast from Carrs or whoever.

 

 

Richard

[sub39h]

Ray, have a look at this product from Geoscenics. It may be an option.

 

http://www.geoscenics.co.uk/powders.html

 

hth

 

MY ANTIVIRUS HAS DETECTED A THREAT ON THIS PAGE

 

(Avast 2014 - I've contacted them to let them know.)

[Ray H]

 

Fed up with my own lack of activity that I could see on-going endlessly, I decided to cover the yard and sidings with the Woodland Scenics fine cinder ballast. That also showed some dislike from the affect of the misting insomuch as some of it moved when the water mist fell on it. Nonetheless it more or less stayed intact and I'm now waiting for the PVA to dry before moving forward (at last) again. The resultant general unevenness will probably look quite prototypical.

 

The resultant surface looks to be a shade too coarse to be left as it is so I'm inclined to pursue Chris Nevard's idea of a (presumably extremely thin) layer of modelling clay pressed into the ballast to produce a slightly smoother result. Another (simpler) option could be to cover the area with a thin layer of plaster (powder) and dampen that.

 

I'm undecided whether to attempt to spread the clay (or plaster) between the sleepers as Chris has done although I wonder if I could get a thin enough layer of clay - paper thin - whether I could cut it into strips and then into suitable lengths to lay between the sleepers rather than trying to spread the clay from a "lump". Whatever I do I think that I'll limit any trackwork work to the left hand siding, where the yard traffic is and leave the right hand (recess) siding as it is with the possible addition of a bit of greenery.

[Ray H]

 

I've bitten the bullet and done as I believe Chris Nevard indicated i.e. ballasted and then covered the surface in modelling clay. The above is the result so far. I shall now give it a couple of days to thoroughly dry off whilst I wait for my recently bought but not yet arrived airbrush and compressor with which I intend to weather it.

 

I had thought that I'd got the cinder ballast pretty level across the yard surface but adding the modelling clay has proved otherwise as the latest picture shows!

[bill badger]

That looks pretty effective, but, I've probably missed the point somewhere along the line. What is the thinking behind the recomendation (I've seen references to doing similar on a number  of threads) to ballast as normal, only to then covered it all over with clay or similar. Isn't this just using a relatively expensive commercial product as a filler? Could you not build up the levels with thick sheets of card or polystyrene etc. and then put the clay on top of that. Is the clay intened to give a texture surface, or does the texture of the ballast 'poke through'?

 

No critiscims intended as the end results looks good; merely confusion about the process at this end!

[ozzyo]

This is what you want in any steam area yard,

 

In the goods area the grot would have been up to rail level.

 

Or it would have been paved.

[Ray H]

I think the idea of covering the ballast is that the layer of clay is very thin and designed to be like genuine clay/earth (call it what you will) that would have spread itself over the ballast by fair means or foul such that the roughness of an element of ballast would still have been detectable as may just be discernible in my rather naff picture.

 

I did try building up the surrounding ground level with card prior to experimenting with the chinchilla sand and the thin covering of the sand showed all the joins in the card - which had been laid in small sections because of the shape of the area. I then reasoned (on the basis of pictures that I recall seeing) that an ash surface on the surrounding ground wouldn't be out of the question and I could use that medium as I had a surplus. The result of what I've now done (which I hope will be weathered over the next few days if I can pluck up the courage to actually try out the airbrush that I've just bought) is probably more realistic because the ground is now far from "flat" which I suspect (and hope) would be the case for a little used rural goods yard.

[bill badger]

Thanks for that - I think I understand - to give a ballast-like appearance through and around the edges of an accumulated covering of finer material - clay, ash and soil in real life. Makes sense to me know. I think I'd assumed the clay was a thick layer that wouldn't allow the underlying texture to show through.

[darren01]

Hi

Yards where made from ash, C+L do ash ballast, looks good.