Satan's Goldfish Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 I think one of the parts lists I have mentions ferry tie down fittings for wagons, possibly s-kits. I'll have to do some digging. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I think one of the parts lists I have mentions ferry tie down fittings for wagons, possibly s-kits. I'll have to do some digging. Cheers. Whilst they are known as 'ferry fittings' on this side of the channel, they are no such thing, they are standard UIC fittings for pulling wagons by rope, its only that the only time British enthusiasts saw these fittings was on ferry wagons. The wagons were often tied down to the ferry with a chain over the buffers. 51L wizard do etched ferry fittings., but I don't like the Anchor shape myself. The silver tanker would benefit from adding some 4mm y25 bogies and a bit of break gear underneath. the black tank has shades of the VTG tanks for China Clay http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ferryvtgchinaclay again beefing up the bogies with 4mm ones (perhaps from the Genesis cargowaggon flat? ) would help bridge the gap to 4mm. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Is there a source, or sources, of drawings for ferry wagons? Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Is there a source, or sources, of drawings for ferry wagons? Regards Which ones are you looking for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 The regulations for fittings on Ferry Wagons were quite prescriptive. In the 1980s and 90s the norm (if there is such a thing) were 4 Lugs per side to allow Chaining Down on train ferries and at least one Towing Lug per side. Here is an example: Some wagons utilised a combined Chaining Down and Towing Lug in two of the positions and two Chaining Down Lugs. I will dig out and mark up a few exceptions to the rule. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 First wagon is a non Ferry Wagon. A 2 axle Spanish registered container flat with towing lugs only Next an SNCB Open Ferry Wagon with two towing and two chaining down lugs per side Detail of the two different lugs on a buffer locked SNCF wagon at Dover Finally an exception. A Ferry Wagon with only towing lugs, no chaining down lugs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Which ones are you looking for? The vans that were in use during the 60s. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 The vans that were in use during the 60s. Thanks I've some drawings (redrawn myself from material from a variety of sources) for the vans introduced from the mid-1960s onwards (SNCF, SNCB, FS,and DB) and a couple for older prototypes (OBB and Transfesa). They're not the world's greatest drawings, but with the aid of some photos of the relevant wagons, you could probably turn out a reasonable model. I wonder if there's a way of doing a drawing album in the way others have done photo ones? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 As promised back upthread, some HO/OO comparisons: Roco Saarbrucken van with my 4mm scratchbuild. These were common into the 1970s and also almost identical, without brake cabin, to the articulated pair operated by Delacher, one of which is preserved in this country. Roco FS vent van with my scratchbuilt insulated van. The bodies should be almost the same length (IIRC the insulated vans were slightly longer). The height discrepancy can be disguised by adding a deeper solebar (you need to build a new chassis anyway, the supplied one is awful). These are fairly common in rummage bins and I haven't paid more than £8 for any of mine. Both these could also be seen into the 1970s and in small numbers more recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 A few links to other threads on RM Web http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83654-br-20t-ferry-vans-diag-1227-in-western-region/?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=1392600 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72653-flatrol-details/?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=1063553 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/68569-golden-valley-hobbies-tiphook-wagon/?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=959177 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64927-train-ferry-traffic-photos-from-the-nrm/?hl=ferry http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/63498-stef-french-ferry-van-in-4mm-scale-and-12-days/?hl=ferry http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59558-stef-ferry-van-in-4mm-scratchbuilding-to-a-deadline/?hl=ferry http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58076-ferry-vans-from-scratch/?hl=ferry http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/57752-danzas-ferry-van-in-4mm/?hl=ferry http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/47023-br-ferry-tube-wagons/?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=522909 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/45271-transfesa-blue-fruit-vans-195x-to-the-90ies/?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=496559 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48507-harwich-ferry/page-2?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=759794 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/41839-what-wagon-is-this/?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=449009 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/21038-interfrigoferry-vans/page-2?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=281117 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/21940-ferry-wagons/?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=217084 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/8203-belgian-ferry-vans-on-eastern-region/?hl=ferry Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 A few links to other threads on RM Web http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83654-br-20t-ferry-vans-diag-1227-in-western-region/?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=1392600 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72653-flatrol-details/?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=1063553 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/68569-golden-valley-hobbies-tiphook-wagon/?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=959177 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64927-train-ferry-traffic-photos-from-the-nrm/?hl=ferry http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/63498-stef-french-ferry-van-in-4mm-scale-and-12-days/?hl=ferry http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59558-stef-ferry-van-in-4mm-scratchbuilding-to-a-deadline/?hl=ferry http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58076-ferry-vans-from-scratch/?hl=ferry http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/57752-danzas-ferry-van-in-4mm/?hl=ferry http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/47023-br-ferry-tube-wagons/?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=522909 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/45271-transfesa-blue-fruit-vans-195x-to-the-90ies/?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=496559 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48507-harwich-ferry/page-2?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=759794 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/41839-what-wagon-is-this/?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=449009 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/21038-interfrigoferry-vans/page-2?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=281117 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/21940-ferry-wagons/?hl=ferry&do=findComment&comment=217084 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/8203-belgian-ferry-vans-on-eastern-region/?hl=ferry Jon Did we have a little spare time on our hands? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 Ferry tie-downs have already been covered in the thread, the next question is about graphics: Whilest looking up suitable Interfrigo wagons i found this site which shows the left hand data panel on an IIB wagon http://www.railalbum.co.uk/railway-wagons/ferry/italy-interfrigo-van-1.htm With all the other info is a picture of an anchor. On the Marklin and ACME Interfrigo models of the similar but larger European gauge wagons, this anchor is missing. My book hasn't turned up to try and confirm this for myself, but is the anchor logo something that would readily appear on all types of ferry traffic to identify it's use? or are these specific to the IIB wagons? Many thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Maltazer Posted March 26, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2014 Ferry tie-downs have already been covered in the thread, the next question is about graphics: Whilest looking up suitable Interfrigo wagons i found this site which shows the left hand data panel on an IIB wagon http://www.railalbum.co.uk/railway-wagons/ferry/italy-interfrigo-van-1.htm With all the other info is a picture of an anchor. On the Marklin and ACME Interfrigo models of the similar but larger European gauge wagons, this anchor is missing. My book hasn't turned up to try and confirm this for myself, but is the anchor logo something that would readily appear on all types of ferry traffic to identify it's use? or are these specific to the IIB wagons? Many thanks Yes, all ferry vans carry the anchor logo, so you need to create it somehow (as do I) Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 Yes, all ferry vans carry the anchor logo, so you need to create it somehow (as do I) Mal Cheers. Creating it isn't an issue, i make my own transfers anyway Just need to find lots of size and colour examples now so i know what to create........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Yes, all ferry vans carry the anchor logo, so you need to create it somehow (as do I) Mal As well as the anchor logo, am I right in thinking that the wagon type code (European, not TOPS) should contain a lower-case 'f' for ferry wagons? As in Habfis for those bogie vans I think, or Lfls on the buffer-locked wagon in post 31 above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Maltazer Posted March 26, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2014 As well as the anchor logo, am I right in thinking that the wagon type code (European, not TOPS) should contain a lower-case 'f' for ferry wagons? As in Habfis for those bogie vans I think, or Lfls on the buffer-locked wagon in post 31 above. f is for UK loading gauge. Apparently there is ff and fff too. It's all here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIC_classification_of_goods_wagons Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 f is for UK loading gauge. Apparently there is ff and fff too. It's all here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIC_classification_of_goods_wagons Mal I was told to remember: if there's no eff it's no effing good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 These might be of some use. They are the dimensions as specified in UIC 503 I have loads of other stuff that I will try and dig out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 As i can only press one button for a post, the above earns 'like', 'Thanx', and 'informative/useful'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 As i can only press one button for a post, the above earns 'like', 'Thanx', and 'informative/useful'. Hopefully the informative/useful is the most relevant. Most of my railway career had an involvement with Foreign Railways. I'm in the process of sorting through boxes after a house move following retirement. There should be lots of good stuff to scan etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 These might be of some use. They are the dimensions as specified in UIC 503 So combining that with the type code definitions in post 41: f Great Britain loading gauge, suitable for ferries and channel tunnel = anchor and CT logos** ff Great Britain loading gauge, suitable for channel tunnel only = CT logo only fff Great Britain loading gauge, suitable for ferries only = anchor only*** ** although before the CT opened, the wagons just carried a single 'f', so the definitions must have changed sometime around then. *** and as there are now no ferries, this code would seem to be redundant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 This is an example from a guide in 4 languages to help ordering spare parts. Its a pdf, so PM if you'd like a copy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 Most certainly the most responce is informative/useful, they're probably the best diagrams for transfer creation I've seen for a long time. Cheers! In other news, my David Ratcliffe 'International Train-Ferry Wagons' book has arrived with lots of useful info and pictures in. Which is nice. And the Jouef bogie van has arrived for some comparrison checks. It's not quite the type of wagon I was expecting and it's very old judging by the box and pizza cutters it's rolling on. Still, it has a certain charm and will fit in nicely, here it is compared to a VGA (my Heljan Cargowaggon is currently at Dan's Dirty Diesels for toning down) As can be seen, it's a little lower and a little thinner than the VGA but with a suitable tanker or flat wagon inbetween it will be fine. Other notes, the bogies need blackening and it could do with hook and loop couplers. Electrotren vans are next, got my eyes on 4 Transfesa vans of 3 different types plus a Transfesa tanker to sneak purchase past the wife. Wish me luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Nice one Matt. The height issue would probably be resolved with the use of 4mm y25 bogies as jonhall suggests upthread. If Bachmann do them as spares (used under the JGA wagon amongst others) you're sorted. C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Nice one Matt. The height issue would probably be resolved with the use of 4mm y25 bogies as jonhall suggests upthread. If Bachmann do them as spares (used under the JGA wagon amongst others) you're sorted. C6T. They do do them as spares and i already have some from another project that never really got off the starting blocks......good call! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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