RandyWales Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 Hi Randall, Thanks for the link, I'll poke around on there. This could get quite interesting, in an armchair modelling sort of way . I'd need a camera located in the ceiling with a fisheye lens, then software to recognise the top of my head, and the locos, then software to calculate the distances and adjust the sounds accordingly. Then, it wouldn't need speakers in the loco - probably normal stereo would do. Apart from the software, the total hardware cost would still be less than a single sound chip. Best wishes, Ray Hi Ray... Totally agree with your quip about overpriced sound chips... There are some very clever people around, so I won't go as far as to say your idea can't become reality. However, the lens in the sky may be dazzled by reflections off the solar panel on the back of my bonce... So, why not a variation on car reversing proximity sensors? Seriously though, there are those among us with the requisite expertise who can massage / mix sounds with effects like reverb and echo to push even further towards your ideal. Maybe it's because the loco sounds are too 'dry' in isolation, and need to be mixed with background atmospheric ambience to give a more natural aural experience. Getting way out of my depth now though.... Randall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) Hi Randall, I have to get my head around what it is that I don't like about the sound. I think it is related to the fact that, say 5inch gauge live steam, does not sound like full size steam loco's, and 7mm scale would never sound like full size. I think it is how I perceive the model. Now, if I look at a video, or a pc simulator with a similar size to the model, then the sound seems fine - it's how the model and media is interpreted. It may be some time before I can delve further into this, but I think it is also related to the fact that when we are, say, three foot from the model, then in full size that is more or less equivalent to 130ft. The inverse square law applies to sound attenuation (ignoring reflections and absorption), but the attenuation is also proportional to the square of the frequency. However that is in real air, over 130ft, say, so ideally we need some other density of air to give the same effect over our distance of 3ft. I will most likely be passing the sounds through a filter of some sort to get to something that suits me, but whatever we do, we can't scale nature. Taking a more obvious example wrt scaling of nature - if you scale down the 'gloss' of a full size car to 7mm scale, it would be far too shiny, so we paint them in something that looks right, and rough surfaces e.g. brickwork, at true scale would be more or less smooth, but mortar joints are often exaggerated (and it is not related to how the model looks in a photo).. Now, for diesel loco sound, the effect of scaling is not so noticeable to me, partly due to the fact that visually there is not so much going on and the sound is more of a vibration/rattle compared to distinct blasts. I'm also looking for a puff of steam/smoke for every chuff of a model steam loco, and even with a perfect steam/smoke generator (the current ones are pretty weedy imnsho) it would still be necessary to put in an appropriate delay, due to the speed of light being a bit faster than the speed of sound (about 12mS delay between 3 ft and 130ft for sound, and too small to be any concern for light ). So far, all steam loco model sounds are worse than no sound for me - I guess a bit like watching a silent movie with a good story compared to one with poorly dubbed sound. It is not that complicated, I'd just want to tweak the sounds so they sounded right to me, at the scale distance I will be, and I'm not sure when I will get around to doing that. However, I think I may take the track you mention, and see if I can massage it into something more acceptable to me, at a scale 130ft away. Best wishes, Ray. Hi Ray These are musings so please take them in that spirit. I think that when we look at a model railway we're perceiving it in a rather subtle way. Although we may be three feet from the nearest point of interest and a couple of feet above it, which in 00 or H0 would be equivalent to the roof of an office building a couple of streets away, we mentally transpose ourselves to a much closer viewpoint. This implies that the sound perspective should be closer as well though maybe still a few yards away. Amongst other things this means that though the sound would, from an equivalent point in space, be six to eight frames (24ths or 25ths of a second) behind what we're seeing we'd probably prefer it to be in sync or maybe a frame behind. What we immediately reject is the sound leading the vision. Even a single frame of audio leading sounds very wrong. The other thing that may work to our advantage is that humans are very good at placing sounds where our eyes tell us they should be- ask any ventriloquist. So, provided it's not coming from an obviously wrong point source, we would probably accept a mono soundscape. This is something we do quite happily every time we watch an old movie or a TV show from before they were recorded in stereo (which was a lot later than most people realise) To create a stereo or higher soundscape we'd have to pan the moving sound sources including locos but also every wheel crossing a rail joint to the appropriate position. For mono it's enough to get the relative sound levels into balance. I saw and heard a good example of this at Ally Pally last year where an 0 scale layout had locos fitted with really good sound systems. They sounded wonderful and really convincing as a train approached- and in 0 scale the wagon and coaches made a usefull amount of natural sound. Then the locos passed in front of me and it was very obvious that their sounds were coming from the tender and the illusion was completely shattered. The mono soundscape probably wouldn't work with a long layout unless it's only going to be viewed from one place but for smaller layouts it might be quite convincing (but beware of driving adjoining exhibitors mad at shows) Edited April 5, 2014 by Pacific231G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Hi David, It is sort of interesting, optical illusions, and so on and so forth. I guess it would be easy to digress from the practicalities of getting sound, any sound, out of a small moving transducer. Once that is done, then I think there will be a need, at least to convince me of some sort of 'realism', to adjust the volume on the fly, depending on my position and that of the loco - automatically. The effect you mention wrt the tender sound, shattered illusions, is what I always find, much better not to bother at all. Now, when I was a mere lad, the bit of card in the spokes of my bike, gave to my mind, a realistic motor bike sound - simple. No concerns about whether is was a BSA card simulator, or Triumph or Douglas/whatever, but the sound was related precisely to the speed of pedalling. I think, wrt our model loco sound, everybody seems to be missing the point, concentrating on recording and accurately playing back full size locos, so you hear stuff you don't need to, wherever the loco is on the layout - a bit like models accurate wrt every rivet, but pure guesswork concerning the colour, and with bent wire couplings. Anyway, it's probably a long way off, if ever, before I get around to following through with this - are you in an experimental mode? Best wishes, Ray ps - referring to your comment about mentally transposing - I think that is connected to whether you are operating or just passively viewing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) Hi David, It is sort of interesting, optical illusions, and so on and so forth. I guess it would be easy to digress from the practicalities of getting sound, any sound, out of a small moving transducer. Once that is done, then I think there will be a need, at least to convince me of some sort of 'realism', to adjust the volume on the fly, depending on my position and that of the loco - automatically. The effect you mention wrt the tender sound, shattered illusions, is what I always find, much better not to bother at all. Now, when I was a mere lad, the bit of card in the spokes of my bike, gave to my mind, a realistic motor bike sound - simple. No concerns about whether is was a BSA card simulator, or Triumph or Douglas/whatever, but the sound was related precisely to the speed of pedalling. I think, wrt our model loco sound, everybody seems to be missing the point, concentrating on recording and accurately playing back full size locos, so you hear stuff you don't need to, wherever the loco is on the layout - a bit like models accurate wrt every rivet, but pure guesswork concerning the colour, and with bent wire couplings. Anyway, it's probably a long way off, if ever, before I get around to following through with this - are you in an experimental mode? Best wishes, Ray ps - referring to your comment about mentally transposing - I think that is connected to whether you are operating or just passively viewing. Hi Ray Though I didn't do it for long enough to become a real expert I used to prepare sound FX for BBC World Service dramas. General backgrounds and bird songs, distant trains etc. came off disks but "spot FX" were generally done manually (or with my feet for footsteps) - what movie people rather grandly call Foley. I've also seen a number of my own TV programmes mixed in a dubbing theatre, which in the right hands really brings things to life, and have more recently done some of that myself on the computer (usually at 3AM as it gets quite addictive). As always the secret is to keep it fairly simple so you don't end up with a mush or a cacophany of sounds. I reckon you need three layers of sound, the specific sync. sound of the locomotives and trains- those are effectively spot effects, other specific sounds such as station announcements, sparrows coughing, dogs barking, crossing bells etc. which need to be credible for the location but don't need to sync with anything very precisely, and finally the general background ambience. We used to make good use of something called "City Skyline" which was actually Niagara Falls played at half speed at very low level behind everything else. There are masses of free sound effects available for free download and use on the web though they tend to be a bit weak on very general ambience. A lot of them are American and city ambience seems to consist of endless police sirens and I've found a set of crossing bells and freight train sounds guaranteed to make the people on nearby stands at exhibitions wish you hadn't been born. To my delight I've found one library called SoundJay whose trains and crossing bells sound decidedly French though locomotive sounds do need to be specific. I did once visit Austrian Radio (ORF) in Vienna and amongst the standard spot FX found in most radio drama studios was one for a typical Viennese tram which were still fairly old types. It consisted of a fairly heavy steel plate with four heavy metal castors sitting on it bolted to a wooden cross with a handle. You turned the handle at appropriate speeds and, with the mike in the right position and possibly a bit of reverb, you got instant Strassenbahn. Edited April 5, 2014 by Pacific231G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyWales Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 .....that is done, then I think there will be a need, at least to convince me of some sort of 'realism', to adjust the volume on the fly, depending on my position and that of the loco - automatically. Hi Ray.... I'm beginnning to understand where you are coming from on this.... When I saw my first sound-equipped diesel (BR Class 25) at Howes, I was immediately put off by the fact that the volume was too loud, and too constant over distance. The loco ran away to the end of a long shelf in the shop, and the volume didn't recede with the distance. This put me off soundchipped locos for a long time. I eventually bought a Bachmann Class37 and was able to partially overcome this shortcoming on my loft layout due to natural sound baffles in the room. With regard to automatically adjusting volume levels to compenstate for changes in distance, Bluetooth has an inbuilt 'signal' that can report the devices' proximity to other devices, and thereby theoretically control some software that would adjust volume. Randall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I've worked out how to do it. I could wear a pressure suit and breathing apparatus (space suit) and build and operate my railway in a vacuum tank, (but not a full vacuum). Somehow, I don't think the juice would be worth the squeeze However, there seems to be some agreement developing here, that it needs to be different than recording the full size sounds. Best wishes, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Noooooooo. You still have to start off with the genuine article, otherwise it's never going to sound right. I am liking the thinking behind this, but so far can only picture it working in the sense of a mixing desk. Except instead of having a band you would have a layout! I'm watching with interest. Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Think of films and cgi - no real thing there, and a pair of coconut shells make a good galloping horse, and rattling a sheet of steel for thunder, etc. (and David's tram, above). It is all about control of the sound, probably easier to do that with shaping white noise cf faffing around with pre-recorded sound files. Best wishes, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 That may work with 'generic' background noises Ray, but you cannot have a generic UK diesel horn as an example. There are too many different ones. Some may sound similar, but others are very distinctive. So to me you would still have to start out with a geniune recording. You may well then be able to replicate it on a modern device to use on your 'audio simulator' though. Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 (edited) Hi Kevpeo, I've only been considering steam loco's, there are different 'problems' with diesel. but wrt the horn, that would be relatively easy to synthesise, it does not need to tie in with speed of loco, etc. I think the waveform would be relatively easy to generate, but it is a long time since I looked at this sort of thing, and as mentioned before, I'm not sure if I want to start again. fwiw, a good friend of mine wrote a music synth, back in 2000, that generated virtually any sound. I'd need a recording of the original, analyse it, then generate similar waveforms for each horn. This is not the same as playing back the original recording, and I think that is a major difference. By generating the data stream, it can be altered to match specific requirements, on a bit by bit basis, on the fly. It would be good enough for me, and in all honesty, if folk want something different, that's OK, but playing back pre-recorded wav or mp3 files is not the way I'm thinking. I think a similar technique is used by this guy - http://www.peterspoerermodelengineers.com/90275/info.php?p=4 - you will have to imagine how it can be refined, however. For larger scales, many of the things I mentioned about attenuation will not apply. Generally you will be , say 6ft from the loco, and say a scale of 1/30 instead of 3ft and scale of 1/43 - work it out for yourselves. Best wishes, Ray Edited April 6, 2014 by raymw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyWales Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Hi again... I've been watching several Youtube videos of superb quality 7mm steam locomotives with soundchip sounds... The owners have obviously spent mega bucks on their models, but they are REALLY BADLY let down by sounds that are an ABSOLUTE JOKE! Why are people happy with such rubbish? There needs to be an official inquiry! I then played a ”REAL" soundtrack (nb. NOT synthesised....) overlaid across the same videos, and it was a totally convincing portrayal. Using SoundByte (£1.99), I then played the same track through the small Bluetooth speaker that cost £11.99 in Sainsburys... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80412-cheap-superior-quality-onboard-sound-for-7mm/&do=findComment&comment=1422014 'Twas even better! To blame the speakers is a gross mis-representation of the truth. Uncompressed sounds through half-decent speakers, however presented....HELLO......GO FIGURE! Randall Edited April 18, 2014 by RandyWales Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyWales Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) Hi again.... I wasn't my intention to have a rant and then leave it up in the air without follow-up, but the birth of our first grandson changed things.... So.... How on earth does overlaying the sound of a Youtube video with a soundtrack have anything to do with the running of trains around a layout? There is a reason behind this ludicrous notion.... The eyes see a steam train....the ears hear a steam train...the brain makes the connection regardless of whether there is close synchronisation between the rotation of the wheels and the chuffs.... It is extremely difficult to get an accurate representation of a steam loco programmed onto a sound decoder. Slicing and dicing the complex sounds of a steamer is next to impossible. So why bother? Rather than programming a composite of sounds trying to cover the many different speed steps, why not fill up the available memory on a soundchip using an extended sample taken from a real soundtrack - a single loop lasting fifteen seconds or so.... I'm sure most modellers who love 'watching their trains go by' would jump at the chance to have authentic sounds of a real steam train rather than rubbish composite samples that sound toylike. Who would care if acceleration and deceleration steps were excluded if the train sounds just like the real thing as it runs past between scenic breaks. This brings me to speakers... My tests with Bluetooth Audio Streaming have highlighted the fact that playback of a soundtrack through a typical 4mm speaker sounds far better than soundchip-advocates would have you believe. The real reason for poor sounds from a soundchip is the fact that the samples are compressed by the software used to build the project long before the sounds are loaded into a soundchip itself. Sound samples are data. One's and zero's. The chip doesn't care. If the software used to create soundchip projects was modified to save the data in it's original sample size, the quality playing through your small speakers would be infinitely better. To repeat....I have played quality samples through tiny speakers using SoundByte, so the proof is there. For 4mm, it's far better than you get using existing techniques using compressed sounds. Correspondingly, because the same compression technology is used in 7mm, if you fed soundchip output through a BOSE speaker, it would still sound rubbish. I am NOT against sound decoders....far from it. They can yet be of a standard that we deserve for the price we are expected to pay. If the manufacturers rewrite their compilation software, and the next generation of chips have bigger memory, then they'll no longer have to try to lay the blame on the speaker. Randall Edited April 24, 2014 by RandyWales Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc3aSy6UJzg Having got a couple of quite recent default sound equipped locos, just for demo purposes, I'd rate the lack of 12" speakers in 10 cu ft enclosures as the main reason model loco sound is so awfully unrealistic. And a slower sampling rate just eliminates the HF, not the bass, which is the main thing missing. Andy Edited April 25, 2014 by Andy Reichert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyWales Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 That video just about sums up the problem! I really feel for those who have spent time and money recording top quality audio samples only to suffer the loss in quality that existing sound decoders impose...must be very frustrating. I've spent the afternoon playing around with various freely obtainable soundtrack samples, cutting bits here and there and playing them back through my Heljan Class 37's onboard Bluetooth speaker using the SoundByte iPad application. Being a bit of a loon (only a bit?), I also played back several STEAM tracks through the Class 37 speakers simply to see if the sounds were affected by being the speaker being enclosed in a confined space. I needn't have worried....the sounds were excellent. Quality audio via Bluetooth is...convincing...very convincing. Sorry, people....anyone who thinks onboard Bluetooth Audio Streaming, especially in 7mm scale, isn't worth a look is very mistaken... Yes, there's the occasional drop-out...but it costs less than £15 per loco for goodness sake! Has anyone else out there started experimenting? Anyone care to shoot me down? Randall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyWales Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 Hi again... For personal reasons, I intended ducking out for a while... However, a spare moment and a Google Search led me to this: (please take the time to read the whole thread)... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56414-dcc-steam-locomotive-sound/ Seems I've not been far off the mark in any of my criticisms then? Many of my points about the poor quality of DCC sound, and my attempts to find an alternative (which have been be-littled by some), have now come home to roost.... RMweb has a long memory..... Randall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyWales Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Hi again.... Here's another video example of the SoundByte iPad method of playing sounds through the onboard Bluetooth speakers that will be mounted in my 7mm fleet. This one is a MetCam DMU recorded on the NYMR and made available under the Creative Commons licence by RailwaySounds http://www.railwaysounds.co.uk The sounds are much better in 'real life' through the VEHO BT360 M3 speaker shown in earlier posts. Youtube doesn't really do it justice. I've no doubt that anyone with the inclination could make this work in 4mm...and the samples are of much higher quality than can be stored on a sound decoder...even played back through speakers used for 4mm scale. Randall Edited May 14, 2014 by RandyWales Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Which Bluetooth speakers would you recommend for 4mm scale? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyWales Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Which Bluetooth speakers would you recommend for 4mm scale?It's not the speakers you need to be thinking of.....I've tested this with couple of speakers that are usually associated with 4mm use... It's the Bluetooth module you need to consider.... Fourmil users would probably need to source the tiny Bluetooth devices used for earpieces, and then add a small amplifier to boost the signal into the speakers... It would still be far cheaper than fitting expensive sound decoders. As I said, anyone with the inclination and resourcefulness could do it, no doubt. (Hopefully, they would then inform members of their methods.....) Bear in mind that this method could also be used with speakers that are not mounted on the locomotive, but around the layout. Not quite as realistic, possibly but nevertheless cheap and easy. I'm no expert...I'm making it up as I go.... Randall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I'm not shooting, but I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with the audio sampling rate comment. It has to be at least double the highest frequency you are trying to reproduce, or it loses every thing above half sampling frequency completely. In my case, I actually did run a direct cable from the sound chip into a very good 100 Watt stereo amp and a pair of very accurate wide spectrum 100 W speakers. They deafened the warehouse as though we we standing next to the actual loco. The HF was there, but the bass was still well below par in my opinion. So there may be some other LF filtering in the systems somewhere. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyWales Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 I'm not shooting, but I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with the audio sampling rate comment. It has to be at least double the highest frequency you are trying to reproduce, or it loses every thing above half sampling frequency completely. In my case, I actually did run a direct cable from the sound chip into a very good 100 Watt stereo amp and a pair of very accurate wide spectrum 100 W speakers. They deafened the warehouse as though we we standing next to the actual loco. The HF was there, but the bass was still well below par in my opinion. So there may be some other LF filtering in the systems somewhere. Andy Hi Andy...Sorry for the ambiguity...the Disagree button should be banned because it courts controversy. Believe me, I accidentally pressed it last week as I was scrolling through a thread and it couldn't have been in a more inappropriate posting .....It appeared I was making terse comment about another member's spouse... I am by no means an audiophile, but I totally agree with you on the limitations imposed on the dynamics of sound produced by small speakers. My point was that within these limitations we don't necessarily have to accept what we are told by those who could be laying the blame for poor quality sound at the wrong door. Samples from a quality soundtrack played through small speakers sound much better than the equivalent sounds that are output from a sound decoder. I don't know what sound decoder you used in your test, but I'd bet you'd be much more impressed if you played a high quality soundtrack through those 100watt speakers. I think that playing a sound decoder's output through 100watt speakers is possibly unreasonable because we are not dealing with sound on that scale. Setting aside the matter of frequency loss, it's not all about volume.... It's about making the most of the constraints that are imposed on us. Randall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) I would guess there would be lf filtering, no point in filling the memory chip with notes that can not be played back through a small speaker. What is needed is a sort of 'Dolby' for the other end (LF). Virtually all the sounds of model locos that I see/hear on the web, are very much better with the sound turned down (sometimes often better on mute ) But, for the full size videos, sound on full blast is better. I think, as well as the quality of the sound, it is also the spatial effect that matters too - a model in the distance sounds more or less the same as close up -10ft equating to 450ft in 7mm scale, inverse square law and all that - I alluded to that in an earlier post - scaling nature, etc. Watching the actual model it may be different for some, but I'm not able to trick myself with what is currently available. Any sound chips going to do this anytime soon- - rumbling wagons and so forth, in the first video, once the loco has gone past, you don't hear it above the wagon noise. Notice the atmospheric effects - wind causing sound to fade and recover. Yet more buttons for you Ian... Best wishes, Ray Edited May 16, 2014 by raymw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyWales Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 Any sound chips going to do this anytime soon- - rumbling wagons and so forth, in the first video, once the loco has gone past, you don't hear it above the wagon noise. Notice the atmospheric effects - wind causing sound to fade and recover. Yet more buttons for you.... Best wishes, Ray Hi Ray....Sound decoder development does seem to have halted, doesn't it?...(is that too harsh?..maybe not).... I mentioned earlier, the solution is to increase memory and rewrite the project compilation software.... BTW....I now fade the loco sounds and increase the rumbling/railsounds as per your comment.... Also... Don't discount using intact sound tracks which come complete with your 'atmospheric effects'.... Something I am prepared to discount....synthesised sounds.... far too complex and more likely to result in something that resembles a demented wasp... Sorry.... Randall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I was surprised at the (unintentionally) recorded sound of this run by. With no sound units on board whatsoever, the whoosh by seems a lot closer than I expected http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwjux85M-q8 vs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyz9SMeG6uM Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 (edited) Hi Andy, I guess it's the position of the microphone, possibly the shape of it's sensitivity curve. So, for the first video, the model, being down low, and very close to the track, there is a greater change in volume due to the larger percentage change in distance between close and far from the listener. Many of the recordings of models I've seen are from three or so feet away and above, a more normal viewing distance. Not explained too well, but maybe a few sums - Close to track, say 3inches (mind your beard!), far side of track say 36inches from listener - change in sound = 9 to 1296 or 1 to 144 (multiplied by some roughly constant value, more or less if you want to get to decibels). There will be some effect due to sound waves bouncing off the baseboard, etc. For a more normal viewing distance, say 3ft away, for same approximate situation. So, loco close to listener sqrt(36*36+36*36) =51, far = sqrt(36*36+72*72) = 80 so then its only a 1 to 1.6 ratio. (based on simple trig and inverse square law) For the second, full size video, the position of the mic was relatively similar to that of the model. That is to me, a more normal listening position for full size. When I am looking at a model, I am more likely to be in the 3ft away situation, but 'mentally', I'm much closer, and I would not want the sound to intrude on that impression. It is not merely a question of the engineering, psychology is more important. Of course, all of making and viewing models is a mental game. Best wishes, Ray Thanks for posting, I'm not sure adding any sound would add anything to the first video. It is one thing making a model, to be viewed by random people, another to be viewed by just the builder, quite another to show selected clips, etc. on utube/wherever. As the current fad is to dub on smoke and steam for images, it is trivial to edit sound in pp for video - they might as well just show paintings and cartoons! edit for typos Edited May 18, 2014 by raymw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyWales Posted May 26, 2014 Author Share Posted May 26, 2014 (edited) Hi again.... Soundbyte and Bluetooth Audio Streaming had a recent outing at the Swansea Railway Modellers Group meeting and I think reception was quite positive. On arrival, I unboxed and railed up my 7mm Heljan Class 37 with the onboard VEHO Bluetooth module and speaker. After a few soundless circuits of the large O gauge test track, I started up the Soundbyte App and observed.... The initial reaction was that someone had a locomotive with sound...Big Deal! It then began to dawn on some members that I was controlling the sounds from my iPad. Several came over to watch and ask questions.... Others remained indifferent (but leaned over to check as the Class 37 went by)... Around the far side, I started up the sounds of a Steam locomotive and watched as the loco passed-by along the front of the test track.... Trigger inquisitive looks... Finally, I did a run past with the sounds of a Mr Whippy Ice Cream van...trigger laughs all round.... Admittedly, I was surprised by the lower fidelity in the large room compared to the close confines of my loft. In fairness, there were other trains running on the 4mm and 2mm tracks, plus the general hubbub of the clubroom....probably a validation that amplified sounds can increase the annoyance factor at exhibitions.... There were also several signal drop-outs when the loco was on the far side of the tracks, behind a few members who were within the central operating area. However, several members (especially the younger clan) came over and asked many pertinent questions and I demonstrated how things worked. I was absolutely chuffed to note that not one person commented on the fact that I was controlling the motion and the sounds separately. Not a bad debut for 7mm sound that cost less than £15.... regards Randall Edited May 27, 2014 by RandyWales 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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