R3020 - Fowler 4P

[Mike70]

I've been browsing some of the forthcoming releases from Hornby and was curious about the LMS Fowler 4P (R3020).

 

There is a BR version of this, R2287, so I assume it is the same tooling.

 

I just wondered how good a model it is in terms of detail.

 

How does it compare to the LNER L1, e.g. R3189 or R3190.

 

 

[Andy W]

It's the Airfix body from the 1970s on a new modern chassis, so no longer tender drive. The body was a market leader in its day, and is still better than some older models in the Hornby range. Unfortunately the new chassis also introduced what posters here have described as a lump under the boiler, next to the firebox. Strangely Bachmann's Midland 4F which is meant to represent a slightly earlier built version of what is basically the same loco (leaving aside detail such as LH and RH drive) doesn't have the lump (though posters have found other things to criticise it for) so it is clearly possible to design a chassis that doesn't necessitate it.

[Free At Last]

Andy W, on 30 Mar 2014 - 12:51, said:

It's the Airfix body from the 1970s on a new modern chassis, so no longer tender drive.

LMS Fowler 4P (R3020) is a 2-6-4 tank engine.

 

[Andy W]

LMS Fowler 4P (R3020) is a 2-6-4 tank engine.

 

Whoops, quite right. Must have tender locos on the brain. My apologies to all.

OK, Fowler 2-6-4T. I've got an R2637 example. The detail is not up to L1 standards, but then not much is. Moulded cab handrails, for example. Still looks a good model to me. The tooling is quite old now, first appeared in the 1980s I think but good for the period, the chassis design has been updated somewhat because the original motor is no longer in production. I believe there have been some updates to the body as well such as separately fitted smokebox door handle, but no longer have my original one to compare.

[neal]

The original model launched in the 80s wasn't bad for it's time. X03 motor, and pretty agricultural chassis, offset by a nice bodyshell.

 

This was upgraded in around 2004, with a completely new DCC ready chassis and heavily breathed over bodyshell.

 

I have the original release of this livery number 2311, and was taken by the lining on the wheelset which is superb.

 

Minor criticisms are that the cab floor is too high (visible under the cab doors), and the front bogie has the 'new' twin pivot articulation which is not to everyone's taste.

 

Mine is mildly weathered, and looks great alongside other Crimson locos.

 

Neal

[andyman7]

Yes, first introduced in 1980, one of the models in the main range that is upgraded older tooling. Not a bad model nonetheless!

[Flying Pig]

I have one of the original 1980s releases stashed away somewhere and I believe that has the twin pivot pony truck, so it ain't that new!

[Sam Moss]

I've got one and it runs well. Bit light footed but there is plenty of room for lead sheet in them big side tanks which is what I've done with mine.

[Mike70]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

I'll have a good look at one when they are released.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...How does it compare to the LNER L1, e.g. R3189 or R3190.

Is it worth floating an alternative?

 

The direct development of the Fowler 4P was the Stanier 4P, and this has been produced as a Hornby model to the same visual standard as the L1. There's the ever present current question of when it may next be available, but there is always s/h.

 

Following this development line, Bach have produced both the Fairburn and Riddles versions of class 4 2-6-4T; my own pick the Fairburn to represent the LMS design family, which loses out to the L1 in appearance only in the detail of the cab side wind deflectors and the buffers. All make pleasing models thanks to the general handsomeness of the prototype subjects.

[Mike70]

Is it worth floating an alternative?

 

The direct development of the Fowler 4P was the Stanier 4P, and this has been produced as a Hornby model to the same visual standard as the L1. There's the ever present current question of when it may next be available, but there is always s/h.

 

Following this development line, Bach have produced both the Fairburn and Riddles versions of class 4 2-6-4T; my own pick the Fairburn to represent the LMS design family, which loses out to the L1 in appearance only in the detail of the cab side wind deflectors and the buffers. All make pleasing models thanks to the general handsomeness of the prototype subjects.

I've had a look at the Stanier 4P and the Fowler 4P on the Hattons website.  You can see from the photos that the Stanier is more detailed.

 

I also had a look at R2730, which is an LMS 4MT.  Isn't 4MT just the BR classification of the Stanier 4P?

So I'm assuming it is the same model as the Stanier 4P?

It appears to be as detailed as the Stanier 4P model.

[Michael Delamar]

just a shout out that I am on the lookout for a body for one of these, in BR black as long as it is one of the more modern factory lined not one of the 1980s ones.

[robmcg]

I have always like the Fowler 2-6-4T and thought I might buy a new one.

 

 

Can anyone say what changes if any have been made to this model since introduction in 2003?   All DCC-ready according to Ramsay's, and a very fine model even if not quite up there with L1 standards. Do they all have traction tyres? Is the 2016 R3404 the same as say the R2396 (2004) or R2223 (2003) model, or others made 2004-9

 

Thanks in advance.

[MikeParkin65]

I don’t believe the Fowler 4P tank has ever had traction tyres. Certainly my current China version hasn’t and I don’t think the earlier Margate version had either.

[adb968008]

I don’t believe the Fowler 4P tank has ever had traction tyres. Certainly my current China version hasn’t and I don’t think the earlier Margate version had either.

Funnily enough I found today my Hornby book of service sheets dating back to 1993 when I became an accredited service dealer, for a shop I used to work with all model service sheets from the 1970’s to 1993 included.

 

The original 2-6-4T was sheet 122 issued in 1981, with the X04 motor and catalog number R055, which included release numbers 42308 and 2300.

These did not have traction tyres.

When re-released with an M2209 motor, it now has traction tyres, spare part L6241. Locos issued with it included 42363/2301/2312.

 

When it went to China I can compare and see it is the same body, with enhancements and features (lamp irons) added to a new chassis with improved valve gear which does not have traction tyres.

This started with catalog R2223 in 2003.

Edited May 12, 2018 by adb968008

[cctransuk]

It's the Airfix body from the 1970s on a new modern chassis, so no longer tender drive. The body was a market leader in its day, and is still better than some older models in the Hornby range. Unfortunately the new chassis also introduced what posters here have described as a lump under the boiler, next to the firebox. Strangely Bachmann's Midland 4F which is meant to represent a slightly earlier built version of what is basically the same loco (leaving aside detail such as LH and RH drive) doesn't have the lump (though posters have found other things to criticise it for) so it is clearly possible to design a chassis that doesn't necessitate it.

 

Bachmann Midland 4F? That one passed me by, both prototype and model !

 

Bachmann DO produce a Midland 3F, but it is stretching the facts a little to describe it as "... a slightly earlier built version of what is basically the same loco ...".

 

If you had, as I did years ago, converted an Airfix 4F into a 3F, you would realise that there is slightly more to it.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[adb968008]

Bachmann Midland 4F? That one passed me by, both prototype and model !

 

Bachmann DO produce a Midland 3F, but it is stretching the facts a little to describe it as "... a slightly earlier built version of what is basically the same loco ...".

 

If you had, as I did years ago, converted an Airfix 4F into a 3F, you would realise that there is slightly more to it.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I believe the poster is referring to

 

The 4f 0-6-0 starting with catalog 31-880 onwards

http://www.hattons.co.uk/52561/Bachmann_Branchline_31_880_Class_4F_0_6_0_3851_in_LMS_black_with_Johnson_Deeley_tender/StockDetail.aspx

 

The 3f 0-6-0 starting with catalog 31-625 onwards

http://www.hattons.co.uk/32724/Bachmann_Branchline_31_625_Class_3F_0_6_0_43474_in_BR_Black_with_late_crest_/StockDetail.aspx

 

I have 43924 from Bachmann and intermingle it with 44311 from Hornby I find both detailed enough models.

Edited May 12, 2018 by adb968008

[cctransuk]

I believe the poster is referring to

 

The 4f 0-6-0 starting with catalog 31-880 onwards

http://www.hattons.co.uk/52561/Bachmann_Branchline_31_880_Class_4F_0_6_0_3851_in_LMS_black_with_Johnson_Deeley_tender/StockDetail.aspx

 

The 3f 0-6-0 starting with catalog 31-625 onwards

http://www.hattons.co.uk/32724/Bachmann_Branchline_31_625_Class_3F_0_6_0_43474_in_BR_Black_with_late_crest_/StockDetail.aspx

 

I have 43924 from Bachmann and intermingle it with 44311 from Hornby I find both detailed enough models.

 

Oops; as I said, the Bachmann 4F had passed me by - literally - I hadn't realised that they'd done one !!

 

I've already got three Airfix 4Fs, all of which are about to be equipped with Comet / High Level / Mashima / Markits chassis, so I haven't been in the market for more, and had missed the release of the Bachmann model.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[RickRoper]

I have the Hornby model of BR Black No. 42363, which as a model I am on the whole perfectly happy with detail-wise, but it's never been a smooth runner, and does indeed have traction tyres on the rear drivers, together with a pair of coil springs fitted in recesses in the chassis block, to pre-tension said rear drivers...

The tyres on the rear drivers give rise to a wobbling motion, which has always nagged away at me.

If new releases do not have traction tyres, I will definitely consider purchasing one...

 

Richard.

[adb968008]

I have the Hornby model of BR Black No. 42363, which as a model I am on the whole perfectly happy with detail-wise, but it's never been a smooth runner, and does indeed have traction tyres on the rear drivers, together with a pair of coil springs fitted in recesses in the chassis block, to pre-tension said rear drivers...

The tyres on the rear drivers give rise to a wobbling motion, which has always nagged away at me.

If new releases do not have traction tyres, I will definitely consider purchasing one...

 

Richard.

I think the issue could be the location of the tyres.

42363 was tyres on the middle wheel, the rear springs gave it balance to prevent it pivoting ( the same issue that springs was missing on the recent 14xx which meant the wheels didn’t touch the track ).

Is the centre wheel grooved for a tyre, maybe move the tyre to the middle wheel ?), leave the rear springs asis and the whole thing should be more stable.

Edited May 15, 2018 by adb968008