Web Only Model shops can enhance the hobby

[blueeighties]

Interesting thread. I took the plunge and started my own business last Year. I initially considered retail premises, but after looking at the shops books for the last few Years, I'm very glad I decided to go in a different direction. I converted my garage into a workshop, and have never looked back.

There are some key things I have learned.

 

Internet businesses work. Most of my clients prefer to order things this way.

 

You need to have a desirable product and market before starting your business, a lot of people seem to start up and just hope customers will magically appear.

 

A good, well designed and regularly updated website is essential.

 

Communicate with your customers, form good relationships. A lot of people ask how this can happen via a website, its all down to good communication and customer service. 95% of my customers provide me with repeat business.

 

Have a real passion for your product. A lot of people ask me if I'm getting bored with the job now as its no longer just a hobby.Yes it has its moments, but I have nevef felt more driven and enthusiastic about it all. I always get immense satisfaction when customers tell me how happy they are with my work.

 

Be prepared to work pretty much 24/7. I now get umpteen phonecalls and emails every day, every one is answered/replied too on the same day. One of my major gripes are businesses that can't be bothered to respond to customer queries.

 

Running your own business is not a walk in the park, its bloody hard work at times. But its also immensely rewarding and satisfying. There is also the lifestyle aspects to consider. I was bored with the daily 8am-5pm working day, now I choose my own hours, if I feel like starting work at 7am, or starting later and working until midnight I do, I'm the boss and please myself :-)

So to sum up, have a product that people want to buy, look after people, and work hard. You wont go far wrong.

[gordon s]

You make a very valid point, Ray.  I believe a large percentage of modellers are in the over 50 bracket as generally we have access to disposable income via owning our homes and retirement with a company or private pension.  The other side of that equation in my case is that whilst I was introduced to PC's and mobile phones in the 80's and 90's, they are used, but nowhere to the level of my children, where they are second nature and the media of choice.  I would never buy anything via a mobile phone number and would be concerned about purchasing anything from a non secure web site.    

 

I haven't checked the websites yet, so don't know whether or not it they are secure sites.  In Richard's case, it may also be helpful if your signature was an active link to the site, rather than just a web address.  Small thing, but the easier it is to get to the site, the more traffic you will get.

 

If my profile is typical of my generation and we are the largest purchasers, then it is certainly a handicap to any business growth not to make it as simple as possible for that sector of the market to purchase from you.

 

I wish you both every success in your new business ventures.  I was never brave enough to go down that route, so you have made a very bold decision already.

[Tricky-CRS]

I haven't checked the websites yet, so don't know whether or not it they are secure sites.  In Richard's case, it may also be helpful if your signature was an active link to the site, rather than just a web address.  Small thing, but the easier it is to get to the site, the more traffic you will get.

 

Hi Gordon

 

Thank You I have updated my signature to an active link, which I did not know you could do.

[vintagemodeller]

 

As the guy who put his head above the parapet first to start this thread it has been interesting reading your comments  both the positive and negative. As a modeller first and retailer only relatively recently I like everyone have my own viewpoint but as with many things it is the viewpoint of others that helps make decisions, so thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

A major factor in my own personal decision to go down the route I have is my proximity to retirement age and a wish to avoid disposing of a shop which couldn't be handed down to the next generation, coupled with congenital disability. So the bricks and mortar route whilst being a preferred option, would have saddled me with problems at the wrong end of the age scale. Hence my choice of the Interweb. That having been said my website www.vintagetransportinminiature.co.uk is operated using a web shopping hosting service and payment is through Pay pal only, thus affording you the customer their protection.  

 

I have enjoyed reading peoples views as I have said, it has certainly given me food for thought, however there are some decisions that I will not  change such as my use of a mobile number and more importantly email, since several of clients have come from outside the UK and have indicated the ease by which they can contact me.

 

Some of the postings I have put up have been more about acting as "the chair" of my thread so have been more about being an Agent Provocateur than to  intentionally slight anyone.

 

Finally, and regrettably lastly from me,  because of major upheavals in the coming weeks that will prevent me posting.  I would say there is the chance that web only model shops will begin to appear in increasing numbers but that they will possibly be confined to offering specialist services outside the remit of the day to day local shops. that being said with Forums such as this falling under the banner of media companies such as Warner's who will seek advertising from anyone involved in the supply chain modellers are going to have to, at some stage, use this particular marketplace.

 

Thanks for your comments  

 

Graham Eason

owner

Vintage Transport in Miniature

[Ian Abel]

As another dinosaur, I'd like to add my tuppence worth.

 

I've never liked mail order and have always bought from shops and exhibitions/toyfairs where I can get my sticky hands on the goods immediately. The drift towards internet shopping and selling S/H by e-bay removes the fun of going out shopping to me. In addition, the postage costs are a pain - a lot of the little bits and bobs that you'd buy at shows are now sold on e-bay and the postage costs are more than the cost of the item. Stupid.

 

Then there is the business of having to go to the local sorting office to pick up the parcel because you were out when postie called. Not fun.

 

Graham

Graham,

  Whilst I totally understand your perspective and your preference, I'd LOVE to be in the position you are in.

Unfortunately, being an ex-pat in the US wanting/struggling to model BR/SR OO, it's essentially impossible for me to obtain ANYTHING I need without the internet sales option. I do prefer to deal with bricks-and-mortar who also have internet sales but of course that means the "so called" box-shifters, but I've had good results with them, and I use Hattons almost exclusively and recommend them.

I have to plan for the bits-and-bobs so I get enough that the postage isn't crazy, but that's the only choice. Internet/web only may not be everyones choice but for some of us there's no option...

Enjoy having the choice, some of us really envy you

[Phil Parker]

To those saying that the OP and others should aim to sell what the public wants, this is wise advice but "what the public wants" is a moveable feast.

 

Looking at a little web only business, Amazon, suggests that there are other models. Amazon doesn't make money on new books. It makes it by having a massive stockroom and selling huge numbers of different items. This is called "the long tail".

 

If you look at sales of a new loco, everyone has it and they all discount the thing like crazy to shift stock. No-one makes much money. The same thing happens with certain books - the Harry Potter Series are a good example.

 

6 months later, the loco or book isn't available on the shelves as it's been replaced by the next big thing (OK, I'm ignoring the supply issues with locos for this example to keep things simple). Now the web only retailer has the advantage. He has a small number of these in stock and no longer needs to discount them. Most of the items he sells go with reasonable margins. Looking at the book world, if you want a new copy of a Harry Potter, those discounts no longer apply. The term "The Long Tail" refers to the graph of sales of any product - massive at the start and tailing off over time. The tail is where there are no discounts so if you can sell enough items in there, you make money.  

 

The web only guy therefore can supply items that will have low overall sales but he's doing this on a worldwide basis so even though there are very few takers for each item, he can reach them all. He must hold a huge range so overall sales are respectable to make the most of this.

[dagrizz]

Graham,

  Whilst I totally understand your perspective and your preference, I'd LOVE to be in the position you are in.

Unfortunately, being an ex-pat in the US wanting/struggling to model BR/SR OO, it's essentially impossible for me to obtain ANYTHING I need without the internet sales option. I do prefer to deal with bricks-and-mortar who also have internet sales but of course that means the "so called" box-shifters, but I've had good results with them, and I use Hattons almost exclusively and recommend them.

I have to plan for the bits-and-bobs so I get enough that the postage isn't crazy, but that's the only choice. Internet/web only may not be everyones choice but for some of us there's no option...

Enjoy having the choice, some of us really envy you

 

Ian,

 

Fair enough for those of you ex-pats but it's always been the case for you and you'd have used mail order pre-internet.

 

I was really addressing the situation for the majority of us who live in the UK; our buying trends are mirroring yours because of the rise in internet trading. This is what I am not happy with.

 

Graham   

[raymw]

Although not model railway related, I quite like, and often use the 'Argos method' You can go on-line, compare various items, see if it is available locally, reserve it, go and collect it any time within 24hours. Maybe independent bricks and mortar mr shops could get together as a sort of co-operative and operate a similar scheme. As it is, my local mr shop (about 4 miles away) has no 7mm, but I call in when passing, every couple of months or so, have a chat, and usually buy something for around a fiver - generally a few lengths of brass tube/similar. The next shop, about 15miles away, is much larger, has some 7mm, but parking is not free, so I've only visited once in the last 7 years.

 

It must originally be about 10 years ago that I ordered some kits from Tower Models. I found them helpful over the phone, they have a useful web site with good illustrations (but bad speling   - and I told 'em ) so I use them when I can. I believe they started/still is a bricks and mortar shop so locals can call in. Generally, in face to face there is less misunderstanding compared to telephone, certainly web based communication. I think Hattons, Rails of Sheffield, many others started that way - bricks and mortar. It is a different ethos than simply putting up a web site with shopping cart - there is a sense of something more - any problems I can send some 'lads around to sort it out' as a last resort, I know where they live, so to speak, and they know I know! These suppliers, and other with the same ethos do exactly what it says on the tin, and the label is clear enough to read. No need for anyone else for general rtr stuff.

 

If you are not reselling, but providing some added value, or a bespoke service,  then other rules apply.

 

Best wishes,

 

Ray

[JCL]

I've just read this thread, and thought I'd add the following few thoughts. A bit of background, I'm in my mid-forties and I've been buying on-line since Google was a website that was looking like a good idea. For the vast majority of that time I was living in England. I've just spent five years running a B&B, and during that time, almost all of my first time guests have arrived via the internet, either directly to my site using a search engine, or through other listing sites like BBCanada and Trip Advisor. Before that I worked for a global Internet company. I may not be a typical customer, i don't know, but here are my general thoughts anyway. You may already be doing some of this stuff.

 

1) I don't generally have a problem with mobile phone only as I've seen on both of your sites and you provide a real address. I wouldn't phone either of you because I live in Canada. I understand people who are uncomfortable with this arrangement.

 

2) I have ad-block on my browser, but RMWeb is excepted because I want to know whats available. I don't tend to look in the Suppliers forum.

 

3) Make sure all of the text your website is positive. With regards to postage rate changes, on one of the sites, I'd have just said that you are absorbing the changes and that they are frozen for six months - wow, that's great! I wouldn't have followed this up with some vague bad news that will happen in the future. Don't apologise for this, and when the time comes, be matter of fact. Also, sound authoritative. If you haven't tried cleaning your 3D print and painting it, then you should so that we know it can be done successfully.

 

4) I am much less likely to buy from an online store that contains a number of typos. I know that for some people this can be a very difficult subject, but it is what it is. I have a friend in a completely different field who is dyslexic, and in her early online days she didn't worry about this, and it showed. Now everything she types goes through her husband first before it is published and she's doing a lot better. Typos could also mean that Google won't pick up on your key words. http://www.businessvoice.com/website-typos-may-spell-lost-business.html

 

5) This doesn't apply to your sites, because they are well laid out, but I also give up on sites with poor navigation.

 

6) I don't always want to create an account. I like the fact that on one of the sites on this thread I don't need to create an account. It's obvious to me that.

 

7) Never have pages under construction, it is better to remove/hide them from your menu until you have them ready. Under construction pages can make your website seem abandoned if they have been there a while.

 

8) Don't just ask your friends and family if your website looks good, they will invariably say it does, especially if the know you've put a lot of hard work into it.

 

9) If it's allowed, put a clickable link in you signature here (oops, one of you has)

 

10) Make it easy for me to buy the products. If I'm not going to handle something, I'm only going to buy products that I can clearly see, so good photography is essential. If I click on a thumbnail in a gallery, I want to go to a product page with a buy button on it. If I see an image on a product page, I want to click on it and see a larger, sharp, well lit photo of it.

 

I don't look twice at small or blurry photos. I like to click on a thumbnail on a product page to see larger photos of a product. Lee's photography is a good example of great photography (other examples are available ) http://leeslocos.co.uk/index.html

 

11) The above point is negated if there is an item I'm really looking for, it is only available from one supplier, and that supplier has been recommended. In that case there doesn't even need to be a photo, remember, I'd be much happier if there was though.

 

12) Always be on the lookout for new ways to advertise, and don't forget to re-evaluate your current advertising from time to time to make sure it's working for you. The people I advertised with when I opened my business are not the people I advertised with when we closed this Spring. We were also not afraid to try something out of our comfort zones. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

 

13) Hopefully I won't get into trouble for saying this, but why not build a diorama in a thread on there using some of your items. Create a how-to thread and link to that thread in your signature.

 

14) Don't forget to look at *successful* websites and make a list of their good and bad points, do the same with yours.

 

15) Try not to be annoyed by the advice given in this thread. It's not easy to hear people say that they are not amazed by your baby; you've put a lot of work into it and friends have probably said it's lovely, but those friends aren't necessarily your customers. If you show someone that you are annoyed with them, you will lose them as a customer, it's better to just grit your teeth and thank them for their feedback. Believe me, while the vast majority of our guests were great, we've had some odd characters at the B&B, and not one of the more difficult people [insert own word here] ever knew what we really thought about them, and some of them gave us great write-ups on Trip Advisor because of that!

 

I think you both have a lot or really interesting stuff on your websites, and if I was in your market, and now that I've seen this thread, I wouldn't have a problem giving you a go.

[Bernard Lamb]

JCL

That is just about the most comprehensive reply to a post that I have ever seen.

Now send 'em a bill for 1000 dollars as the advice is worth every cent.

Bernard

[Tricky-CRS]

Thank you JLC, I have taken it that some or all of the above applies to me and will work through the list. I have made an immediate change to the postage frozen section. I have also made other changes this weekend based on other feedback from this thread. It will take me a few days to change all that I need or want to change but this has been a very useful exercise.

 

Thank you to all and sorry if I have been over defensive. 

[JCL]

No problem, it's difficult at times,and hard work, especially if this is the first time you've done this. In a different thread on here, I've been reading about small suppliers closing down because of retirement or passing away, and a number of people are worrying about the future. I am hoping that we can help and encourage new small suppliers, whatever their business model, to start up and take the place of these closing businesses so that we can continue having a thriving support system for our hobby.

 

In a way this thread could be a good advert for you. We now know what you do and through this and other threads we'll find out what you are like. In this and other ways you will build up that trust.

 

I've just reread what I've written in the post above, typos and all. Sorry about those, ironic when you think about it.

[vintagemodeller]

I

13) Hopefully I won't get into trouble for saying this, but why not build a diorama in a thread on there using some of your items. Create a how-to thread and link to that thread in your signature.

 

 

 

You won't from me and I will as soon as I can work out a way of doing it within Volution'thankss software your thoughts were much appreciated too

[Jol Wilkinson]

Interesting thread. I took the plunge and started my own business last Year. I initially considered retail premises, but after looking at the shops books for the last few Years, I'm very glad I decided to go in a different direction. I converted my garage into a workshop, and have never looked back.

There are some key things I have learned.

 

Internet businesses work. Most of my clients prefer to order things this way.

 

You need to have a desirable product and market before starting your business, a lot of people seem to start up and just hope customers will magically appear.

 

A good, well designed and regularly updated website is essential.

 

Communicate with your customers, form good relationships. A lot of people ask how this can happen via a website, its all down to good communication and customer service. 95% of my customers provide me with repeat business.

 

Have a real passion for your product. A lot of people ask me if I'm getting bored with the job now as its no longer just a hobby.Yes it has its moments, but I have nevef felt more driven and enthusiastic about it all. I always get immense satisfaction when customers tell me how happy they are with my work.

 

Be prepared to work pretty much 24/7. I now get umpteen phonecalls and emails every day, every one is answered/replied too on the same day. One of my major gripes are businesses that can't be bothered to respond to customer queries.

 

Running your own business is not a walk in the park, its bloody hard work at times. But its also immensely rewarding and satisfying. There is also the lifestyle aspects to consider. I was bored with the daily 8am-5pm working day, now I choose my own hours, if I feel like starting work at 7am, or starting later and working until midnight I do, I'm the boss and please myself :-)

So to sum up, have a product that people want to buy, look after people, and work hard. You wont go far wrong.

Very valid points.

 

I would add that also having a face to face contact with your customers (and potential customers) by taking a trade stand to appropriate shows is also a great asset.

 

Probably one of the biggest issues is maintaining some "privacy" and domestic bliss, from the experience of a friend of mine. People are used to dealing with internet and telephone contacts at all times, partly because it is what they have become used to through dealing with the the likes of Amazon and ebay but also your time off is often their hobby time. You need to clearly state your terms/times of business, but then expect most customers to either not read or simply ignore them. Telephone calls and email enquiries can develope into lengthy "discussions", quite often not very productively in sales terms. That's alright if you aren't doing much, but if you want to get down to then PO with a delivery before close of play it can be annoying. Some customers feel that they have become a close personal friend and phone up for a chat, on the pretext of some trivial enquiry.

 

The issue of running a business from home also need some other considerations. It is possible that business rates may be applicable to part of a property used for commercial purposes. If so, this has to be factored into the business model.

 

So, while running telephone/web based sales business can be successful, you need to be very aware of the impact they can have on your life. Whether the return is worth the effort, only you can judge.