Nile's kitbuilding bench - Midland 1377

[Jol Wilkinson]

I regret to say that, despite the work Nile has put into building this model, it highlights what seems to be a major downside of 3D printing. The surface finish is poor, even for wooden bodied van or wagon. 

 

I have discussed this with other modellers who have researched 3D printing and designed quite a few items. They are of the view that it is good for small components such as buffer housings, but isn't yet at a point where it works well enough for larger items unless costly detailed printing and expensive materials are used. One kit manufacturer has also concluded that the process is suitable for producing masters which can be "polished" for resin casting but it is both unsuitable for finished products and not well suited to series production.

[Nile]

Maybe I should post smaller photos, these are about double real size on my 17" monitor. As with most things, you gets what you pays for. This model was printed in the cheapest material, and it shows. It is now only available in the higher quality FUD material, and costs about 3 or 4 times as much.

[LNWR lives on]

Gents,

 

What does it look like when applying a viewing factor of 24/36 inches?

 

The workmanship as ever is brilliant

 

David

[BlackRat]

It looks ok to me, given the limitations of production v cost.

 

And I bet it looks great when viewed from a 'normal' viewing distance.

[jwealleans]

In general I'd agree with Jol, although that makes a nice model and from normal viewing distances I expect it will look absolutely fine.

 

I have a GNSR van to make up which is similarly rough. I am going to try a couple of coats of filler primer on that and see how it turns out.

 

For the moment, I think these cutters offer a much better route to scratchbuilding, which can then be used for resin casting, than 3D printing. The only open question, though, is how long it takes for 3D printing technology to catch up.

[Jol Wilkinson]

It looks ok to me, given the limitations of production v cost.

 

And I bet it looks great when viewed from a 'normal' viewing distance.

I think that the cost issue is very relevant, Shapeways quoting something like 45 Euros for a NSR Brake van print (I don't know if that includes p&p). 

 

So, given the time involved in designing the artwork and the other bits needed to buy it, then I would suggest scratch building a van or wagon would be both cheaper and better. However, there are those that wish to indulge in exploring the new technology and are happy to accept it's current disadvantages. 

[Nile]

Your last sentence is interesting. When it comes to new technology such as 3D printing one can take several stances:

1. Ignore it and carry on as before.

2. Watch and wait for it to develop to a usable level.

3. Get involved and push the limits of what is possible.

While it's sensible for most to adopt no.2, if everyone did the technology may never develop.

Its still early days and better methods may yet emerge. Until then we continue to experiment.

The rough finish of the WSF material (used here) can be smoothed with painting and sanding. The external framing on this van prevents this, so it's not a good example of what can be achieved. Here I am just making use of bits I found in a box (that went missing for months) as an experiment. It may not be as good as a plastic kit or scratch-build, but may be ok at 'normal viewing distance' (with imperfect eyesight).

Edited November 3, 2014 by Nile

[PenrithBeacon]

The printed brake van looks interesting but so often - as in this case - the quality of the surface finish is poor and I can't help but feel that in cleaning it up all the detail would be damaged. I admire the quality of 'Niles' work to get that far, but, as usual, the Shapeways output falls short of the quality that their customers have a right to expect.

 

Regards

[Nile]

Footboards made from 20x80thou plastic strip were glued to the axleboxes. I then added supports made from square micro-rod.

 

 

I then painted the new bits black and brown.

 

 

Nearly there.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Nile

[knobhead]

The rough surface looks better now for some reason? I kind of like it in any case.

 

Regards,

 

Stefan

[Spitfire2865]

Beautiful. Nice cheaty way of doing the stepboards.

[Nile]

With 3-link couplings fitted, the shaft of the coupling hook holds the chassis in place.

 

 

The completed model, with glazing.

 

 

Here it is alongside a recent RTR conversion.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Nile

[Spitfire2865]

So what your saying is the only thing holding this together is the coupling hooks. Haha.

Its smaller than I though it was. From a distance, it doesnt look printed at all.

[Dazzler Fan]

Wish I could build a brass chassis. Can barely solder as it is.

This looks great.

Use Solder Paste - its a snip!

[garethashenden]

I regret to say that, despite the work Nile has put into building this model, it highlights what seems to be a major downside of 3D printing. The surface finish is poor, even for wooden bodied van or wagon. 

 

I have discussed this with other modellers who have researched 3D printing and designed quite a few items. They are of the view that it is good for small components such as buffer housings, but isn't yet at a point where it works well enough for larger items unless costly detailed printing and expensive materials are used. One kit manufacturer has also concluded that the process is suitable for producing masters which can be "polished" for resin casting but it is both unsuitable for finished products and not well suited to series production.

I agree. It looks fuzzy, almost out of focus.

[Londontram]

Most likely doesn't look as bad in the flesh. I like it and as usual Nile has done a cracking job on it.

                                                                                                                                                    Steve

[Spitfire2865]

Use Solder Paste - its a snip!

I have since learned how to solder.

[Nile]

To show what is possible with 3D printing I've dug these models out of their boxes. These are OO and HO scale narrow gauge models on 9mm gauge track.

 

 

 

The 009 Porter locomotive uses a Minitrains chassis, the body parts are printed in FUD by Shapeways, designed by 'Koala Creek'.

 

Additions by me are the whistle - made from brass rod and tube, the bell and headlight - designed by me and also printed in FUD, and the Dapol knuckle couplers (N gauge).

 

The HOn30 wagon was also printed in FUD. I don't know who designed it, or if it's still available. It was designed for HOn3 wheels (10.5mm gauge), I've modified it to take N gauge wheels. It can have Microtrains couplers fitted, I've since removed them.

 

 

This is the set of parts for the Porter, I will eventually build another one.

 

 

 

 

FUD = Frosted Ultra Detail , is the highest resolution material offered by Shapeways (apart from casting wax).

[now known as Fine Detail Plastic]

Edited February 19, 2023 by Nile

[Jol Wilkinson]

Nile,

 

very nice, so I took a look at the Shapeways site to see what is available for the LNWR in 4mm.

 

One single plank wagon in "white nylon plastic" at 13.41 Euro, or a Refrigerator Van body in FUD at 41.69 Euro (needs roof, underframe etc. to complete, so total cost at least £45).

 

The wagon has a surface finish that I consider unacceptable, reflecting that there is a w/m kit already available of the same Diagram. Compared to a similar Bill Bedford/Mousa Models kit with sprung buffers and etched sprung underframe it looks poor value.The van body, shown in the raw, looks much better but at that price I would probably scratch build it if I wanted one, using plasticard and etched strapping.

 

I realise that 3D printing represents one way to create models that aren't otherwise available. However. I am yet to be convinced that it yet offers a viable way of series/small volume production of models that have a reasonable finish at an acceptable price. That may change but until a faster method of printing (new materials, perhaps) it will remain expensive to get a smooth enough finish owing to the machine time needed.

 

For that reason I don't believe that 3D is the "cure all" some people think it is. I am reminded of the early days of etched kits where some designers used it for quite unsuited items. Nowadays etched kits (the better ones at least) use the most appropriate materials for the component in question and contain a mix of etches, brass castings, w/m castings, turned parts, etc.

 

Bill Bedford has appears also done that using 3D items to create patterns for resin casting, allied to etched or turned items where appropriate.

 

Jol

[Nile]

I'd agree that 3D printing isn't a cure all at the moment, and may never be. What it does do is give us another option to make things, just like brass, whitemetal, plastic, etching, moulding etc does.

The next printed thing (the last for now), is an experimental model from Shapeways.

http://www.shapeways.com/model/2648909/4mm-scale-peckett-w6-Dapol-pug-chassis.html?materialId=6

It's a replacement body for the Hornby Lanky Pug, converting it into a Peckett.

This is how I've fitted it to the Pug chassis.

I forgot to take a photo of the raw model, imagine a white fuzzy blob.

First thing to do is remove the body,footplate and motor from the pug, them refit the motor. The chassis needs some strips of plastic card added to get the body at the right height, as below.

 

 

I soldered some brass rods to the clip around the motor. They locate inside the cab to hold the chassis to the body.

 

 

The front of the body is held in place by this screw. It doesn't screw into the body, but against part of it. There is enough friction to hold it in place.

 

 

I made a floor for the back of the cab from plastic card.

 

 

It is pushed down into place from above, held by friction.

 

 

I wanted the cab roof (which is a separate part) to be removable. To hold it in place I made this from a piece of scrap brass.

 

 

This is how it sits in the cab. The long part goes down the front of the motor.

 

 

It will be attached to the cab roof.

 

 

Here it is glued to the roof.

 

 

Without the body in place you can see how fits around the motor. It doesn;t actually touch the armature.

 

 

Next will be painting and detailing the body. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Nile

[LNWR lives on]

Nile,

 

Loving the cleverness of your solutions for the pug conversion. The cab fitting in ingenious

 

Going back to the LNWR Brake Van, in the Forty Years of the LNWR Society publication, on page 51 reads "the tail lamp sat on an internal shelf with the light showing through a hole in the end wall", so that explains that mystery as such. Not quite sure how to model it now as like yourself I have glued the roof on

 

Dave

[Nile]

This is the result of much painting and sanding.

 

There are still a few rough bits, but overall it's fairly smooth.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Nile

[Nile]

I reused parts from the pug body for the handrails along the tank sides. The knobs for the front handrail came from the spares box.

 

 

Handrails for the cab openings were made from brass rod, super-glued in place.

 

 

For the smokebox door handles I used Alan Gibson shoulderless handrail knobs, shortened and mounted on a brass rod.

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Nile

[Nile]

And now for the couplings. I intended to use Kadee's here and needed to find a way to mount them. At the front I tried a NEM362 box with a no.17 very short coupler.

 

This is roughly where I want it.

 

A mounting point was made from a small piece of wood. Two bits of plastic card were added to represent the front of the frame.

 

 

With the front of the chassis cleaned up it all fits together well.

 

 

Checking it against a Kadee fitted van, it looks ok.

 

 

Now to work out what to do at the back.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Nile

[relaxinghobby]

How do you go about adding ballast weight to the body? The printed loco bodies I've seen were very light weight on there own.