Royal Duchy

[gwrrob]

I have a lovely Dick Riley photo of the down 'Royal Duchy' on Dainton in 1957.Its of 5049 'Earl of Plymouth' with a lovely rake of chocolate/cream coaches in tow.Where would the loco that did this service have been shedded or was it attached at Newton Abbot.Its very modelable.Out of interest where was 5049 shedded at this time.

[Taz]

5049 was allocated to Laira at this time.

 

I have seen photos of Old Oak locos on the Royal Dutchy to the west of Newton Abbot so I would assume that the loco would have continued through unchanged as far as Plymouth, where it would have perhaps been changed for a Hall, Grange or maybe County for the final run into Cornwall.

[gwrrob]

5049 was allocated to Laira at this time.

 

I have seen photos of Old Oak locos on the Royal Dutchy to the west of Newton Abbot so I would assume that the loco would have continued through unchanged as far as Plymouth, where it would have perhaps been changed for a Hall, Grange or maybe County for the final run into Cornwall.

 

Hi Brian

 

Thanks for that.

 

Would the Laira allocated loco have been used on the previous days UP service then ?

[The Stationmaster]

I've an idea that the Down 'Royal Duchy' was an Old Oak turn which would have normally meant an Old Oak engine with the men.

 

They would come off at Plymouth and most likely the engine would come off with the men - especially so as on anything approaching a rough trip it wouldn't have had enough coal left to get it past Saltash let alone to Penzance (it was not unknown on really bad trips for a loco to come off for coal at Newton Abbot and then reattach to its waiting - and increasingly delayed - train once the tender had received its fill!).

 

Once off at Plymouth the crew would lodge and normally work back after rest with their own engine, but I don't know the return working. The Western abolished lodging turns as dieselisation increased and Old Oak men then ceased to work west of Exeter/Taunton (and never in BR days went west of Exeter again).

[Taz]

I'm sure the Laira engine and crew would have worked up the day before and lodged overnight in London, although it wouldn't necessarily have been on the previous days Royal Dutchy.

 

Similarly any Old Oak crew would have also done a 'double home' working, staying at Plymouth overnight before working back to the capitol the next day.

 

Interestingly there was a sleeper and dining car kept in the sidings at Laira to house the Old Oak enginemen when working these turns.

[Brinkly]

Interestingly there was a sleeper and dining car kept in the sidings at Laira to house the Old Oak enginemen when working these turns.

 

That's really interesting Brian, I didn't know that. So one presumes that all over the country sleeper and dining cars were kept for crews?

 

Regards,

 

Nick

[Taz]

Nick,

 

I'm afraid I don't have any knowledge about this beyond the Plymouth - London turns but I don't think it was universal.

For example enginemen staying over at Old Oak were given lodgings in local guest houses / b&b's.

[Galtee More]

GW Kings (BR 8P) were not permitted by the CCE west of Devon, as they were too heavy, and were changed at Plymouth North Road. From memory of watching trains at Penzance, the train would normally be taken forward from Plymouth by a Castle Class (BR 7P).

[The Stationmaster]

Lodging on the Western Region (talking post war here because a lot changed during the wartime period and just after) was generally as follows:

 

London men lodging in Plymouth generally went into digs according to all the Old Oak men I have ever spoken to.

 

Lodging at the London end was in the hostel at Old Oak after it had opened (not sure of the date offhand) before that in the postwar period there would probably have been coaches of some sort as this had developed as common practice during the war. Old Oak hostel is still there but was transferred out of railway ownership to a housing trust in the mid 1980s. There was also a hostel at Southall and that building still exists although long out of railway ownership.

 

There were also hostels at Didcot (replaced coaches stabled in the yard), the building still exists;

Westbury (also replaced coaches stabled in the yard) later became a WR training school but I believe is now unused.

 

Severn Tunnel Junction (I think, not entirely certain on that one).

 

Lodging also took place at Shrewsbury, presumably at Newton Abbot (would at least have been there for Shrewsbury men who, together with Newton, had one of the toughest double home passenger jobs on the Western).

 

I presume that at one time there was some lodging at Chester as Paddington Guards at one time worked through and possibly crews from elsewhere would have worked there on double home jobs?

 

And no doubt there are other places which don't immediately come to mind such as Oxley and possibly Tyseley or thereabouts.

 

Double home working was common on long distance freight turns well into the postwar period but I think had probably started to go before such work was ended on passenger jobs. Men always had very mixed feelings about such jobs as while they could be very hard work for the Fireman, especially with a poor Driver, they were usually good earning turns and there were quite a few complaints at the time they were done away with.

 

BR completely abolished lodging in the end (I think the last was on the ECML) but Virgin XC reintroduced it and I believe XC still might have some lodging jobs. That apart the biggest UK user is Eurostar.

[Brinkly]

Thanks for that information, it certainly is food for thought.

 

Regards,

 

Nick