Wills Finecast County, a summer project

[hayfield]

I was very tempted by a lot on Ebay, namely a Wills Finecast GWR 4-4-0 County, Is there any difference between the Wills locos and the Wills Finecast ? I know that Southeastern Finecast have updated many of the kits and laterly Wills changed from whitemetal to etched brass chassis for some locos

 

 

Well the loco kit arrived and I was surprised that there were a few more items than advertised,other than crankpins and a tender wheel there are all the parts to make a model. I have one already (again from Ebay) that has a cast chassis, but a poor paint job and rather than build it as supplied looking at the nice new shiny castings thoughts moved to buying an etched chassis.

 

Well I decided to sell the chassis and the Romford wheels as I have a few nickel tyred 26 mm in my wheel box, as I am fitting an etched chassis I decided to fit a Mashima motor and a gearbox. Also I have 2 other Romford Bulldog motors in my spare motor box and this will also be sold as they fetch good money

 

 

Well this is what I have left, certainly looks like all the parts are there. But having no instructions I cannot check.

 

A new chassis will be ordered in the morning along with a couple of items for a N7 and I will also buy a set of instructions. Another area that may be better altered is the connecting rod, crosshead and piston rod, as all are whitemetal. I have a packet of Gibson universal connecting rods if they are not supplied with the chassis.

 

This wont be a quick build as I have a few turnouts on the go, but its something to keep my modelling mind fresh and as the lads at the club are refurbishing the 00 gauge layout (Broadstone) might as well have a dark green loco running on the SR rails

 

The casting are nice and clean, but there are some flash marks on some castings, so there will need to be a bit of fettling of some

Edited June 22, 2014 by hayfield

[hayfield]

Just placed an order with Dave at Southeastern Finecast for a new chassis. What a very nice gentleman and had a quick chat about the chassis which includes much better etched and lost wax items for the motion set, also suggested I buy a new tender baseplate with the etched chassis fittings. And a plan as a few of the very small bits are unknown to me. In addition I am missing a few parts for a N7 I bought ready built also off Ebay, so ordered those as well.

 

Dave mentioned that the new kit has a one piece boiler & smoke box as well as a one piece fire box, and if like the others a few extra detailing bits.

[Kenton]

 

Dave mentioned that the new kit has a one piece boiler & smoke box as well as a one piece fire box

Nothing wrong with them in two pieces - as long as the two halves match and actually line up. The problem comes when they arrive with a distinct bend. I think you made the right decision to go for an etched chassis and motion, also to dispose of that nasty open-frame Bulldog to someone who likes them, though this adds to cost.

 

A good exercise in low melt solder during a hot summer.

[hayfield]

Lots like the Bulldog and its an improvement on the X04 being 5 pole, but you are correct that (hopefully) the new motor and gearbox combination will be much better.

 

Also its a full chassis kit excluding wheels and motor, I guess it has full brake gear and a much improved motion set. The Bulldog, chassis and Romford's are on Ebay and hopefully will fund the chassis. I have wheels and a motor, just need an idea of what gearbox to use.

[Horsetan]

Just placed an order with Dave at Southeastern Finecast for a new chassis. What a very nice gentleman and had a quick chat about the chassis which includes much better etched and lost wax items for the motion set, also suggested I buy a new tender baseplate with the etched chassis fittings. And a plan as a few of the very small bits are unknown to me. In addition I am missing a few parts for a N7 I bought ready built also off Ebay, so ordered those as well.

 

Dave mentioned that the new kit has a one piece boiler & smoke box as well as a one piece fire box, and if like the others a few extra detailing bits.

 

Dave's SEF spares service is like the VAG parts department of kit supplies. Every part is available separately, no matter how trivial.

 

One thing to watch with the newer one-piece boiler castings is whether they come out oval - I had this happen on a spare Maunsell mogul boiler that I bought, on which the smokebox needed quite a bit taken off the top.

 

Note that your Wills "County" kit as shown will only let you portray the last ten, no.s 3821 to 3830. The earlier ones had a right-angled front footplate drop.

[hayfield]

Thanks for that,you must remind me later when I do the lining etc

[Horsetan]

You should be fine with the lining. Other than the cabside lining going around the perimeter, there's nothing to give you any grief. They had all gone by about 1933 anyway!

[DLT]

Looks like an interesting project John, I will be following progress.

I would suggest a Mashima motor and Highlevel gearbox for this, but the chassis may be designed to accommodate a particular motor and gears.

The current SEF chassis kits are excellent, and contain just about everything you need.

Other add-ons like brass handrail knobs instead of the splitpins, sprung buffers, brass whistles etc can help to upgrade an older kit

All the best,

Dave.

[hayfield]

Dave

 

Thanks, I am open to all suggestions especially things like the hand rail knobs which I was going to change. I normally do this and have some Markits ones in stock, but may only be one size, think I have sprung buffers, As for brass chimneys and domes, I will have a look at the castings first and see how they come up. I believe split pins though are very useful for certain jobs though

 

I do have a small choice of motors, just which gearbox and it would be nice to try a High Level one.

 

One thing I am a bit mindful is that as I bought it as a "Good Buy from Ebay" that I don't then spend lots on it. As you can see I am selling the unwanted bits and perhaps it may be useful to keep track of the costs, if only to encourage others to take the plunge of kit building in the knowledge you don't have to spend hundreds of pounds to get a decent model

[hayfield]

Chassis and bits arrived today from SEF, Onlt the pony truck and cylinders are cast whitemetal, 3 etches (one for the tender) and some lost wax castings for the crossheads/cylinders. Also plenty of instructions, some parts for my N7 but I think I may have confused Dave as I gave it verbally.

 

Will up load some photos, but club night so out soon  

[hayfield]

Here are a few photos of the Southeastern Finecast etched chassis pack for the GWR 4-4-0 County, for clarity I have left out the various bits of wire and the 6 odd pages of instructions. The chassis can be altered to fit the Hornby body

 

 

Here are the main parts, the frets are the frames which include the coupling and connecting rods as well as the brake gear, The tender chassis, again including the brake gear, Finally the fret with the frame spacers 00/EM/P4, cylinder stretcher as well as extra motion and brake parts. Bag of metal parts (bearings, brass frame spacers (screw type), nuts and bolts) and a pack or whitemetal parts (cylinder bits, pony truck and a vacuum cylinder for the brakes!! 

 

 

Close up of the frame etch showing the many parts included

 

 

These are the lost wax crossheads and piston sliders, more sturdy than the original whitemetal ones

 

 

Finally the additional parts to convert the old chassis, to one which can accept the etched chassis , rather than try and adapt the old style one with the kit.

 

As I don't have the kit instructions I think I will have to build the loco body footplate at the same time as I build the chassis, or at least screw the chassis together just to get the two fitting together (chassis needs shortening to fit the older kits. Next is to read the chassis instructions before starting

Edited June 27, 2014 by hayfield

[Thane of Fife]

I like the SEF etched chassis. They fit together easily and result in a well working model. The chassis with his LNER pacifics etc (A3,A4,& W1) are excellent. 

His spare parts service is brilliant. Almost instant delivery from the time of order.

 

 

I have no connection with SEF other than a satisfied customer (and a fane).

 

Thane of fife

[hayfield]

On the face of it the prices are at the higher end of most chassis price ranges until you see what's in them. Certainly with this one you have the bonus of a tender chassis plus all the other parts included.  

 

The fact that you can screw up the chassis with the spacers  in place, but not soldering them together is a bonus when constructing the loco footplate to match both together

 

On the negative side, there are lots of bits to fit (more that in a complete Jamieson body and chassis) together. I am also a bit wary of fitting brake gear, as it always seems to get in the way. I must have a look at the other SEF chassis I have for the old Wills kits in my posession, I do have a King chass which is a Wills Finecast etched one, which is far more basic as is the Triang Hornbr replacement for the SR Q or GWR 2251. The SR N/U chassis looks a work of art as does the SR Q1, but I need a set of instructions for the former of the 2. It would be very interesting to see what comes with a more modern SEF tank loco chassis. As they too may be a work of art.

 

Still cant do too much this weekend, party to night and point motors to fit tomorrow

[Horsetan]

On the face of it the prices are at the higher end of most chassis price ranges until you see what's in them. .....The SR N/U chassis looks a work of art as does the SR Q1, but I need a set of instructions for the former of the 2. It would be very interesting to see what comes with a more modern SEF tank loco chassis. As they too may be a work of art.

 

The SEF "River" tank chassis is also a work of art.

 

These chassis all have a common theme: they were designed by the late Alistair Rolfe, using the same methods he employed in designing chassis for the Brassmasters LMS "Jubilee" and "Black 5". A real tragedy that he died so early.

[hayfield]

I met Alistair a couple of times at shows he was selling at, but spoke with him many times. Lovely chap and one of those who had the gift to encourage others. Had time for everyone and was happy to pass on modelling techniques. Great loss to all who knew him.

 

I like the little cartoon on each etch of the chap looking over the wall (forget his name, but always says got no .........  Morph ?) Did Alistair also make the masters for the new parts in the revised kits ?

 

 

The River looks a bit of a beast !! Have a part built Langley SR Baltic tank (in a Prairie box) which I bought thinking its was the Prairie and have built up the missing parts off Ebay, I think it uses the Hornby A3 chassis, but I never have got around to building it. I like the big tank locos and the LMS Flatiron being a favourite in my collection

[Horsetan]

I met Alistair a couple of times at shows he was selling at, but spoke with him many times. Lovely chap and one of those who had the gift to encourage others. Had time for everyone and was happy to pass on modelling techniques. Great loss to all who knew him.

 

I like the little cartoon on each etch of the chap looking over the wall (forget his name, but always says got no .........  Morph ?) Did Alistair also make the masters for the new parts in the revised kits ?...

It's Chad. Dave told me that many of the masters were Alistair's work.

[hayfield]

Thanks, Morph was the plasticine figure on TV, or am I wrong again.

[Horsetan]

Morph and his lighter-coloured partner Chas, were both on the telly, on the late Tony Hart's art shows.

[hayfield]

Just  half an hour spare this evening, but I wanted to get a start on the chassis. Well a first time used in anger was the London Road Models riveter (or what ever its called). I have had it a couple of years and was quite inexpensive, has worked very well and well pleased with what its done

 

 

Super for pushing the rivets through on an etch, guess it would be a lot harder to use scratch building. But that's where a more expensive one with stops etc comes into its own

 

 

Close up showing its done the job, need to solder the brake tabs to the sides, but the iron is down stairs

[Thane of Fife]

Re: brakes getting in the way

Morgan Gilbert suggests (on here and LNER Forum) fitting micro tubing to the chassis, and threading wire through the tubing, fitting the brake shoes to the wire with nail varnish, which can be removed. This way once the brake gear is constructed it can be put aside until the chassis is finished and then refitted.

 

Thane of fife

[hayfield]

Thanks sounds a very good Idea, I think being a 4-4-0 the motor has to go between the 2 drivers so one set or support wires has to be filed back to the frames. I have in mind to fit these once all is painted and running.

 

Edit

 

Super tip and one worth rembering for the future

Edited June 30, 2014 by hayfield

[Thane of Fife]

I thought it was  a great idea. On a six (or more) coupled chassis (Loco or tender), if the end brake pivot rods are ok, it will keep the brake structure in place with minimal support from the middle wire. However, I haven't tried it with a 4-4-0, where it would be relying on one through wire support. 

 

 

 

Thane of fife

[Thane of Fife]

Going back a few posts, I spotted the mention of the Langley LBSCR Baltic Tank. I also have one of these, and it is a monster. I have fitted a Gibson chassis and it still weighs well over 500g. With a Hornby A3 chassis, it would weigh even more. With that adhesion weight it should out-pull anything.

 

Thane of fife

[hayfield]

Been grabbing a few mins every now and then, and now have the chassis basics done. Well the frame soldered together (bearings will be soldered up once I have made the coupling rods.

 

 

Still plenty to do with the chassis, but I now have a unit I can offer up to the footplate for size.

 

The chassis is designed for use with both the Older Wills kits and the new revised Southeastern Finecast ones. If you are retro fitting to an existing loco, you have to trim the rear of the chassis and use a different rear spacer. In the kit there is a new whitemetal fitting which replaces the old one at the rear of the cab so the full length chassis can be used  without loosing the fixing for the rear brake blocks.

 

On the finance side the Chassis was just under £40 with postage and replacement tender floor plates etc. On the plus side the chassis and wheels went for just under £13, the Bulldog motor has not sold yet, but is worth £10 + to me as it could be used with a few locos I have replacing the X04. As a new kit is the best part of £90 without wheels, motor & gears, So in my mind its only the chassis and parts that have cost me monet and I have a set of gears as well.

 

With regard to the Langley SR/LBSCR Baltic Tank, it is a big lump. The thing that is putting me off is the valve gear. The LMS  o-6-4T Flatiron is also a real big lump that depending in motor and gear box can pull a decent load

[hayfield]

Another busy weekend, start of the village festival so at the parish church summer fair yesterday. Still all went well and hopefully a few more £'s for both the parish and for the church bells restoration fund, Then to watch the wife play in a concert in the evening. Today the in-laws still here but managed to sort out a train set from various odd bits that have come in lots over the past year for my nephews son who loves his trains.

 

So Henry will be pleased later this week once his great granddad has sorted it out and Carols mum has gone back wit 3 lbs of black currants

 

Still I managed to sort out a couple of bits whilst putting Henry's bits together. 

 

 

Sorry about it being out of focus

 

I jumped a few paragraphs just so I could get the major parts of the chassis together so I can offer up the loco whilst the body is assembled. I have folded up the etched part of the cylinders, the whitemetal casting is a replacement part supplied in the chassis kit so that the new chassis can be used without chopping off the back of the chassis to fit the Wills rear casting which would rwsult in loosing the rear brake gear

 

 

The Wills parts, which had quite a bit of flash that needed removing, also the footplates were a bit curved on the horizontal plain.

 

The iron should now be hot enough to start tacking the body together

 

I also sold the Bulldog motor this evening. I have now just about recouped the cost of the body kit, so I am in for the cost of a new chassis kit and a few replacement parts (just to save a bit of having to adapt older parts). I had the wheels and replacement motor in my spares box, just need a gear box to be sourced

Edited July 6, 2014 by hayfield