Coombe Barton Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I'm thinking of putting my GW BLT layout in 1935. There are reasons for this, but as part of the fiction: I can use 57xx and 48xx as well as 45xx, which I have under conversion/construction. If I say that the 57xx was built in 1930 at Swindon I can use 5784, the Mainline body. If I say that one of my 48xx was an early one and one just outshopped I can have both the GREAT WESTERN and Shirtbuttion livery. Weathering the newer shirtbutton 48xx would be minimal, the older one a little more, the 57xx quite a bit, the 45xx as I wish. The question is, how often would tank locos be shopped for repaints so that my fiction would be valid? Is running GREAT WESTERN liveried tanks in 1935 OK from an historical perspectiv? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Is running GREAT WESTERN liveried tanks in 1935 OK from an historical perspectiv? Definitely yes. In 1935, 99% of locos would still be in GREAT WESTERN. Many tank engines outshopped immediately prior to the shirtbutton livery probably never got the shirtbutton at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 The question is, how often would tank locos be shopped for repaints so that my fiction would be valid? Is running GREAT WESTERN liveried tanks in 1935 OK from a historical perspective? Running "Great Western" liveried tanks post 1935 is OK from a historical viewpoint and would have been commonplace with the introduction of the Shirtbutton logo. This would have gradually changed as engines were sent back to Swindon for service overhaul. A couple of reference photos : - in Jim Russell's 'GW Engines Vol.2' (page 179) there is a shot of 57xx class no. 8752 at Paddington station in 1937 looking very clean and still sporting "Great Western" on her panniers. - in Mike Yarwood's 'Window on the Great Western' page 30, there is a nice photo of the coaling stage at Exeter station (in 1936) featuring 48xx class no. 4819 and an '850' class PT, no. 1930. The diminutive 48xx has a grubby looking "Great Western" on her tanks, whilst markings on the '850' are very difficult to pick out (judging by the condition of the engine I suspect this also carries the "Great Western" marking on her panniers). ...dilbert edit : Miss P beat me to the reply and also to clean up some of the special characters not correctly displayed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 The interval between repaints was about 10 years. Obviously a general figure and very approximate. Tank locos would probably have had longer intervals, especially branch line engines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted January 31, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2010 Based on the 10 year plus more for branch locos, do you then reckon a Great Western livery could've last into the mid 1940's? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 The shirtbutton livery was current from 1934 - 1942 and replaced by 'G W R' on tank engines until 1948, when the scrawny 'cycling lion' put in its appearance. The war disrupted all maintenance/repaint schedules and actual livery can only be determined by reference to photos. (filth probably!) There are lots of references to GWR livery still existing in the late fifties. I personally saw a 97xx pannier still bearing the shirtbutton about 1959. (I am informed this was 9709). She was presumably green, but appeared black due to years of the Metropolitan tunnels. The GWR was in business to make a profit (unlike BR who applied lined green with enthusiasm - the taxpayer was footing the bill!) and repaints were undoubtedly on an 'as needed' basis especially for tank engines. (I have a reference in a old copy of 'Trains Illustrated' circa 1950 to a 'King' (King Gearge V IIRC) maintaining her 1942 paint to nationalisation and receiving several coats since (presumably the dreadful blue). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 31, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2010 It's worth bearing in mind that the GWR, end even more so BR(WR), was very economical (polite word for 'tight') when it came to painting locos at Swindon and apart from not having a paintshop (Churchward closed it) they didn't do anything more than necessary, particularly on tank locos. Judging by photos many older tank engines between the wars were either too dirty for teh markings to show or were anonymous but of course new lopcos did carry imndications of ownership. When BR came along the stinginess of finish was even more noticeable - clean old paintwork back and put on an undercoat followed by a top coat, and then don't be surprised if some enterprising engineman found how easy it was to clean back to the GWR markings Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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