Revised Mk3s?

[James Makin]

Does anyone happen to know how Hornby created the RFM coach? Did they just modify the Lima TRFB tooling or was it new tooling loosely based on the Lima TRFB? The reason I ask is would it be possible for Hornby to produce (using the same method) the similar but much needed TRSB.

 

A TRSB even just to Limby standard would be better than none at all!

 

I've got one in front of me, definitely modified as there are crude plugs in the old tooling for the window blanking, some of which you can actually see through the livery on the outside of the coach!!

[Guest 43300]

I've got one in front of me, definitely modified as there are crude plugs in the old tooling for the window blanking, some of which you can actually see through the livery on the outside of the coach!!

 

They also still have the moulded-on buffers found on all Lima Mk3s, as I recall (the Hornby toolings have plug-in buffers).

[beejack]

Took a visit to my local model shop (Model railways direct) for some tracksetta guides today and noticed and the new Standard blue/grey MK3 coaches with lighting had just arrived selling at £32.85 each, so bought three of them - running numbers E42124, E42125 and E42126.  E42123 was also in stock.

 

They work on DCC straight out the box, but unfortunately no switch so the lights remain on all the time as long as there is power to the tracks.

 

I have taken one apart so you can see the insides. the capacitor keeps the light illuminated for a second or two after the power is removed so they shouldn't suffer from too much flickering. Having now run them I could see no flickering at all when running across points  or slightly dirty sections.

 

 

Only one bogies has pick ups, but the other has the pips in place so additional picks could possibly be fitted if available? 

 

 

reassembled coach

 

 

now have a photo with lights on- Apologies for the quality -still getting used to new camera!

 

 

 

my views on the lighting.

 1. not all windows illuminated on a standard open coach

 2. not really visible with room lights on (can see reflection on windows surrounds at certain angles

 

I don't personally think they are too bright, but does show up the two coaches that don't have lights.  May have to invest in some lighting for them!

Edited August 30, 2014 by beejack

[rs4]

Useful - and saved me doing the investigation !

 

It is disappointing that the ends of the coach are not illuminated - I'm questioning whether the overall result is anywhere near realistic...

 

I'll have to get mine on the track, in the dark and see.....

[beejack]

Doing further investigations whilst removing the buffers the first and second class coaches appear to be the same tooling

i.e. open up in the same fashion, push fit buffers and have the same layout inside.

The TGS is indeed from a different set of toolings with moulded buffers and I have at present been unable to remove the body to look inside.

Has anybody yet managed to open one of the TGS MK3's ? If so I would love to know how as I don't seem to see away without damage.

Edited August 30, 2014 by beejack

[phil-b259]

One issue that Hornby would have with a retooled MK3 with a close coupling mechanism is that their HST power cars and MK3 DVT don't have a CCM because they were tooled up to work with the existing coaches.

 

It is always possible that while the pressent tooling for the HST and DVT doesn't have CCM provision at present, the tooling itself could have been designed in such a way that only minor modifications are needed to provide one if the need ever arose.

[andyman7]

Doing further investigations whilst removing the buffers the first and second class coaches appear to be the same tooling

i.e. open up in the same fashion, push fit buffers and have the same layout inside.

The TGS is indeed from a different set of toolings with moulded buffers and I have at present been unable to remove the body to look inside.

Has anybody yet managed to open one of the TGS MK3's ? If so I would love to know how as I don't seem to see away without damage.

The Lima Mk3s were always a challenge to get apart - the roof and glazing are all one piece and it's difficult to get all the windows pressed in enough to get the roof off without something shattering. I'm assuming the TGS is still assembled this way now that Hornby are making them. The 1st and 2nd class coaches are fundamentally different models as that tooling was originated directly by Hornby. As in real life they share the same bodyshell. 

[sub39h]

Then there are issues of the different origins of the tooling, meaning that the TGS doesn't match the rest of the HST set as it's an ex-Lima tooling. As a result of its origin it also has moulded-on buffers, which Hornby for some reason haven't seen fit to remove (yes, it's easy enough to cut them off but they shouldn't be there in the first place!).

I thought some of the TGSs did have buffers? I thought they were fitted on the loco end for working with Class 91s?

[beejack]

One thing I forgotten about until I opened all five new MK3's to put them on the track was that the TGS and First class coaches came with an extra pair of slimmer NEM couplings albeit without hooks. The standard coaches with lights did not.

[frobisher]

It is always possible that while the pressent tooling for the HST and DVT doesn't have CCM provision at present, the tooling itself could have been designed in such a way that only minor modifications are needed to provide one if the need ever arose.

Having seen the dogs dinner of a coupling arrangement at the back of the HST I'm not holding my breath...

[shunny]

If you check the Hornby catalogue the livery/R numbers are wrong. I got a call from my local shop to say my mk3s had turned up but I had ordered the executive 125 coaches not the blue/grey that had arrived. They contacted the rep and he called Hornby to find out they have got the numbers wrong! It seems to be the standard class coaches that are wrong but nothing from Hornby to advise us of this error or what will be put in place to correct this. I can see a few people with some mixed livery HSTs through no choice of there own if they have mail ordered using the catalogue numbers!

[Guest 43300]

I thought some of the TGSs did have buffers? I thought they were fitted on the loco end for working with Class 91s?

 

A very small number of them, and yes they were on the loco end only.

 

So for a model to be correct it would need to be numbered as one of those which had the buffers, would need to be in IC Swallow livery and would need to have buffers on the loco end only!

[Guest 43300]

 

 1. not all windows illuminated on a standard open coach

 2. not really visible with room lights on (can see reflection on windows surrounds at certain angles

 

I don't personally think they are too bright, but does show up the two coaches that don't have lights.  May have to invest in some lighting for them!

 

 

That looks really crap! If they couldn't make the lighting unit long enough to illuminate all windows they would have been better not to bother with it at all.

[doublecee]

 

Took a visit to my local model shop (Model railways direct) for some tracksetta guides today and noticed and the new Standard blue/grey MK3 coaches with lighting had just arrived selling at £32.85 each, so bought three of them - running numbers E42124, E42125 and E42126.  E42123 was also in stock.

 

They work on DCC straight out the box, but unfortunately no switch so the lights remain on all the time as long as there is power to the tracks.

 

I have taken one apart so you can see the insides. the capacitor keeps the light illuminated for a second or two after the power is removed so they shouldn't suffer from too much flickering. Having now run them I could see no flickering at all when running across points  or slightly dirty sections.

 

 

Only one bogies has pick ups, but the other has the pips in place so additional picks could possibly be fitted if available? 

 

 

reassembled coach

 

 

now have a photo with lights on- Apologies for the quality -still getting used to new camera!

 

 

 

my views on the lighting.

 1. not all windows illuminated on a standard open coach

 2. not really visible with room lights on (can see reflection on windows surrounds at certain angles

 

I don't personally think they are too bright, but does show up the two coaches that don't have lights.  May have to invest in some lighting for them!

 

 

 

Just a thought, but wondering if some Costume Diamante stones on the LED's, may help diffuse the light and give some spead to the areas that need it.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-4-6mm-DIAMANTE-STONES-FLAT-BACK-GEMS-DRESS-DANCE-COSTUME-MAKING-CRYSTALS-/370803300443

 

The 4mm crystal clears seem ideal.

 

CC

[Multiple identity account]

One thing I forgotten about until I opened all five new MK3's to put them on the track was that the TGS and First class coaches came with an extra pair of slimmer NEM couplings albeit without hooks. The standard coaches with lights did not.

I wonder why only those two came with slimmer NEM couplings? Does the coach actually have NEM sockets?

[frobisher]

I wonder why only those two came with slimmer NEM couplings? Does the coach actually have NEM sockets?

Nope, it has the ex-Dapol/Airfix style coupling mounts if you look above. There is a slimline coupling that Hornby do that fits that mount which is in a similar style to the slimline NEM couplings that Hornby use.

[Multiple identity account]

Nope, it has the ex-Dapol/Airfix style coupling mounts if you look above. There is a slimline coupling that Hornby do that fits that mount which is in a similar style to the slimline NEM couplings that Hornby use.

http://www.Hornby.com/coupling-assembly-pack.html This it?

 

[ThaneofFife]

thanks to Beejack for taking time to take these apart and post findings.

 

i have to say that Hornby shouldnt have bothered with lighting if this is the best they can do. ok they will cost more but if Bachmann churned out their long awaited Mk2f coaches with dcc lighting to this standard then there would be quite an uproar.

 

Hornby if you read this.....dont make the same appauling error of judgement with your forthcoming Mk2e coaches. it really is a poor effort. thats looks like some 6 inch long aftermarket generic light bar to me.

wheres the illumination in the vestibules and toilets?

 

its always hard to tell from photos but the level of illumination doesnt seem too bad to me certainly not for BR era.

 

not worth the extra.buy the standard coach and fit your own....properly. be handy if you can buy those bogies as spares. do the non lit mk3s come with these bogies as std i wonder???

 

overall score for the lighting 2/10.

a shame as the revised glazing gets 9/10 from me. a score of 10 would have been appropriate had the droplights been clear.

[ThaneofFife]

btw beejack....

whats the light bleed like especially through and along the roof???

[surfsup]

btw beejack....

whats the light bleed like especially through and along the roof???

I think it shouldn't be too bad for the Hornby ex Top Link Mk3s, but slightly concerned for the ex Lima Mk3s and Hornby/Lima RFM/TRSB Bodge with it's single glazing/roof piece - Some of which already allow a certain amount of light bleed through the painted roofs already! (The FGW Dynamic Lines ones being an example).

[ThaneofFife]

that was my thinking.all my current mk3s are like that and when i fitted my own lighting i ended up putting a couple of layers of black pvc tape on the inside of the roof to stop the terrible bleed and that was with 10 to 12 leds set fairly low on the brightness scale.

[beejack]

btw beejack....

whats the light bleed like especially through and along the roof???

 

To be honest I haven't noticed any, but then again was really looking closely for that.  The standard open and first class coaches have an all in one body/roof so there should really be any as they look like black moulded plastic.  the TGS coach with lighting may suffer from light bleed if it is the all in one glazing/roof piece as i am led to believe.

 

At the moment they are all packed away, but have just ordered a set of blue/yellow power cars which should arrive before the weekend so will take a look then.

[jonathan452]

that was my thinking.all my current mk3s are like that and when i fitted my own lighting i ended up putting a couple of layers of black pvc tape on the inside of the roof to stop the terrible bleed and that was with 10 to 12 leds set fairly low on the brightness scale.

The 'Pretendolino' (LImby) RFM, also the East Coast Trains Mk4's are pretty bad for light bleed, even under natural light. Let alone with any interior lighting being installed.

Edited September 9, 2014 by jonathan452

[Removed a/c]

Really disappointed with this whole HST MK3 fiasco. These are not cheap and there is just no consistency. I guess as long as people keep snapping them up things will never change. I am most disappointed that the coaches I bought brand new just a year or so ago do not match (in terms of glazing) the TGS and Buffet car that I need to complete a full rake. 

 

I think for this kind of money (they are at the top end of the price range for what they are) they at least need NEM pockets and they need to match ! 

[Waverley West]

Really disappointed with this whole HST MK3 fiasco. These are not cheap and there is just no consistency. I guess as long as people keep snapping them up things will never change. I am most disappointed that the coaches I bought brand new just a year or so ago do not match (in terms of glazing) the TGS and Buffet car that I need to complete a full rake. 

 

I think for this kind of money (they are at the top end of the price range for what they are) they at least need NEM pockets and they need to match ! 

 

I have to agree with you britfarmer. I really don't understand how a company of Hornby's standing and experience can fit light bars which are so obviously too short by a whole seating bay at each end of the coach. 

 

I might have been in the market for a new blue/grey rake had the upgrade been a good one with good lighting and tinted windows (which are definitely a big improvement), but in no way is it worth my while now. I think improving my existing ones is the way for me to go. I picked up three metre-long rolls of LED strip at the Blackburn show this weekend for £2.99 each. I should be able to do three coaches with each roll at least. At the price Hornby are asking for their revamped ones, I could probably afford Lazerglaze too.

 

At the same show, I saw a pair of HST power cars for £200. I'd compare them with the 2-car Bachmann 101 in terms of product, which you can pick up for around £130 or so. Not sure I understand Hornby's pricing policy either. Maybe they are beginning to get their act together in some ways, but for my era at least, not a lot seems to have changed so far in the red box camp. A real shame, as I really would like to see them back on their feet again sooner rather than later.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Waverley West