Miss Prism Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Post-modern political correctness and a heavy dose of feminist revisionism: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/22/thomas-the-tank-engine-children-parents Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Already raised in another thread giving too much credence to otherwise unemployable polytechnic sociology course failures: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87418-thomas-the-imperialist-tank-engine/?p=1523648. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted July 22, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 22, 2014 Over the hills and far away...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I note that Ms Van Slyke writes "..... I cut my kid off from the show ....." I never trust or believe in anyone who tries to make some highfalutin point, yet calls a child a "kid". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 22, 2014 I note that Ms Van Slyke writes "..... I cut my kid off from the show ....." I never trust or believe in anyone who tries to make some highfalutin point, yet calls a child a "kid". Maybe she keeps goats? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Post-modern political correctness and a heavy dose of feminist revisionism: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/22/thomas-the-tank-engine-children-parents Pah! This one's a lightweight. Ms. Van Slyke ends her piece with the fairly tame "Thomas can just go bust my buffers." Her predecessor in Guardian-published 'Thomas the misogynist and classist, fossil-fuel burner' rants, Ms. Ditum, ends her piece with the much more vitriolic "we're supposed to celebrate Thomas himself, an incompetent little dipstick of an engine who's constantly bashing into buffers and rolling off the rails. In fact, the sooner that blue bastard is carted off for scrap, the better for parents everywhere." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purley Oaks Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Carry on shunting... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted July 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 23, 2014 [opinion] I know I'm going to draw ire for this, but here goes... The Rev W Awdry's books were written in and for a different era, much like Enid Blyton's books, and reflect the views and attitudes of that era. While I have no desire to alienate almost the entirety of RMweb's membership, I think it's not unreasonable to say that many members here (and I include myself to some degree) relate to that era with fondness. However, general society's worldview and attitudes have moved on, leaving both the books and those who remember that era with fondness, in pools of their own opinions. Articles such as these are drawing attention to changing cultural values in life and highlighting sections of the population where some attitudes remain like stubborn stains. True, they are 'just entertainment', and I didn't grow up into a rabid racist despite having read the original books much as a child and still remember them fondly, but they do contain elements that in today's society can be questioned, even if not quite to the same extent as the 'Noddy' books. What perhaps is most galling for the modern day crowd is that the continuation of the concept beyond the Rev Awdry's original series into TV and further books hasn't also been accompanied by an evolution of attitudes in the characters alongside that of the wider society. I think if the Rev Awdry had continued to the present day he'd have had to accept he needed to adjust those attitudes accordingly. I can only hope that the generally fair minded RMweb crowd will eventually come to see that. [/opinion] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 One thing I remember my son saying to me when he was about 8or 9......... The big fancy engines have posh names whilst the little shunters have common names !!! Made me laugh........ Brought up to date...... Tyler the tank engine? Chardonnay the little green engine? The Fat controller gets a gastric band? Pieter the hard working Polish engine ? Leeam the loco? Kade and Kane the engine twins? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wollastonblue Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 As a new parent, and trying to do all the right things, I personally believe that Thomas and Friends are great for children, especially with the message of trying to be Really Useful. Admittedly my son is only 6 months old, but Thomas along with Bananas in Pyjamas, Peppa Pig, and Rugby is the only thing that gets his interest on the TV. Peppa Pig is far worse example to set children if you read into them deep enough, for example. An episode last week, has Daddy Pig pulled over 3 times by the Italian police while on holiday, to which Daddy Pig said to the Police Offficer "What ever it was I was doing, I shan't do it again." Now that is shocking. [Opinion Time] Its time a certain a section of society realise that the world can't be an Organic, Fairtrade, or Politically Correct place to live in. Accept children's characters for what they are and that's entertainment. Children want to be entertained, and they don't read deeply into anything. [Opinion Time] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I can't help feeling that today's society has got into the rather nasty habit of automatically reading things into new and old stories and situations that are simply just not there, and demanding that 'all possible implication and subtext' should be Politically Correct by today's standard. Heaven knows what tomorrow's standards will be....... Let us hope that they're a bit more sensible than todays. The 'Thomas' stories were written about engines and railways - they weren't pretending to be a metaphor for people - WHY has society developed this arrogance that everything is now all about them? As children, we were all bright enough to know the difference - has that changed? (.....gets off soap-box) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted July 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2014 But looks can be deceiving: the constant bent of messages about friendship, work, class, gender and race sends my kid the absolute wrong message. Probably one of the people who got Tom and Jerry sanitised for being too violent. For heavens sake - if you look hard enough you can make something negative out of almost everything - I do wish the PC (or whatever they wish to be called) brigade would concentrate on REAL problems rather than wasting money (presumably she got paid for that drivel) on claptrap. Now pass me my broom - TOMAS ! TOMMMASSS ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
exmoordave Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear..................................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfsboy Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 i dunno what she would make of the Bible and the Koran .Read by billions and understood by two . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2014 I rather liked our country the way it used to be, and there is an awful lot I dislike about the way it is now. Many things have changed for the better but I'm afraid a new form of fascism is abroad among part of our society and these sort of articles could be considered a part of it by trying to impose their self-righteous (but in reality ludicrous) views on others. If she wishes to write socio-psycho babble rubbish that is her privilege but she might do well to remember how we, as a society, achieved such privileges before we start shouting about them as 'rights'. You cannot judge the past by the standards of today and to do so is to misunderstand history and to fail to understand values we have lost while, perhaps, making less than fair use of freedoms we have gained - freedoms which were gained for us by those some of these people so roundly insult or diminish. One of my grandfathers witnessed the execution of a fellow soldier in the Great war - and he and his colleagues wholly condemned that man for deserting and leaving them to do his work and stand short-handed in their section of trench; they shed no tears for him, he was a wrong 'un and in their view got no more than he deserved. We cannot judge, at this distance and in a wholly different world, whether the punishment that man received was right or wrong, and we have no right to so judge. Neither can we pass modern judgement on an excellent and educational series of books about a railway engine that was written over 50 years ago. The technical information that went into the stories is generally faultless and was often drawn from real life (not always of course) and the stories were written for us - the children of that time. If some money grubber wants to turn them into trash television then so be it - but don't judge the books from what is seen on the tv screens and don't judge them by the 'values' and (lack of) culture of today. Rant over, back to toy trains and real railways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted July 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 23, 2014 For what it's worth I certainly don't believe the Rev W Awdry, in his original books, tried to add any subtexts at all. I think he wrote what he knew, which happened to include the attitudes of the time. The original Railway Series books need to be read with that in mind, and not get a rollicking criticism for being so. As for the developments into TV and further books in the 80s and onwards, I have problems with the way Thomas has been brutally commercialised and also with the way that no real attempt has been made to take into account today's society. However, I agree that there are some attitudes and outlooks in Joe and Josephine Public today that really worry me. I think it's a case of six of one, and half a dozen of the other... Edit: re the attempts by people to foist their views on others, I'm convinced that that is an inherent trait in humanity. It seems to me that most people tend to believe that what works for them will just automatically work for everyone else, and can't take account of the fact that other people are different, with differences in likes/dislikes on a whole range of subjects and issues. Cor, listen to me, I'm beginning to sound like Laurie Taylor on 'Thinking Allowed'... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted July 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 23, 2014 I think Re Awdry would be spinning in his grave at what has been done to Thomas since the rights were sold, and new stories written. The original stories were railwaylike, and most of the incidents depicted had actually happened in real life. To show how little the later producers knew of railway practices, didnt they try to prosecute the Bluebell Railway for having an engine named Stepney; thinking they had copied the character in the book? Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fozzy280472 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Pointless person writes pointless article in pointless publication.............................I think this woman should grow up a little bit and stop coming up with such puerile nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The absolute worst thing about Thomas for me? The CGI. I'm not a fan, but I can see the reasoning behind it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I was convinced at first that this was a brilliant satire and had a good laugh. Having looked into the author's background however, it's clear that she takes herself very, very seriously. And we all know what happens to people like that....... I do delight in that particularly outraged, indignant and puffed-up form of right-on'ism however: right-onanism might be a more appropriate way of describing it........ Keep 'em coming my little princess [could you even begin to imagine how she'd respond to that ? Go on someone, please, forward it to her.....]. Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 It's a bit like the Emporers new clothes, it's certainly affected Policing, to the detriment of policing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 As for the developments into TV and further books in the 80s and onwards, I have problems with the way Thomas has been brutally commercialised... I have mixed feelings about the merchandising. I would have been over the moon when I was young to have a 'proper' Thomas railway - in wood and graduating to 00. I have a nephew in the right age group and will post some additions to his Thomas railway later today. Some of it - literally meaning the toy trains - is really good. Now if you are talking about the characters and storylines introduced by HiT, seemingly to manipulate the volume of rolling stock that can be sold, then yes, I agree. As for hats, shirts, bed linens, prams, etc, etc I'm not sure I have an opinion, one way or another. Apparently my nephew was so excited to show his Grandpa (my dad) his Thomas undies the other day he simply had to drop his trousers and display them. I don't see the harm in such merchandising if it engenders that sort of undiluted joy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Post-modern political correctness and a heavy dose of feminist revisionism: It's the guardian should we expect any different? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I thought Kenton was about to agree with her..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dickerson Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 [Peers under the lid of Wheeltappers. Is that brimstone? Or just the carpet?] It's the guardian should we expect any different? Absolutely. It's terribly right-wing these days isn't it? I'm still slightly agog at the suggestion that I've no right to make any judgement on the treatment of deserters in the First World War. (Oddly enough, it sounds politically-correct.) Surely for us to learn from our mistakes we have have to be able to judge what they are? I don't know what a pacifist like Awdry would've made of it, but I could hazard a guess. Nonetheless, we have to take note of historical distance and the general cruelty with a lot of children's literature - let alone unedited fairy tales. But then, I've adopted Larkin's This Be The Verse as a personal creed, so it's not really my problem. Back to the unending quest to bring down society with lentil-based cuisine and sandals... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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