Photos by J. B. Simmons late 50s to early 60s

[Anthony_S]

Greetings all,

 

I recently inherited a pile of old photographs taken by my grandfather who sadly died too young in 1982 when I was about 2. These were all taken in the North-West from Crewe to Blackpool and Liverpool to Manchester Victoria in the late 1950s - early 1960s (I think!). Unfortunately I did not get any negatives and the photographs are in a battered and tatty condition, so I apologise for the quality.

 

I know very little about steam engines, and not sure about some of the locations, so I thought I would share some of these in the hope that I may learn something about them and the trains they were working. There were little or no notes to accompany the photos, so if there is anything you can tell me about them I would be interested to know.

 

I have no idea where this first picture was taken, though I'm guessing Warrington. Interesting to see containers being carried in open wagons.

 

 

Again not sure where this was taken. Manchester Victoria possibly? Love the bracket signal.

 

 

This next one looks like the North end of Crewe station with a train coming in from the Chester direction. It appears that electrification was in progress at this time.

 

 

This one I'm sure was taken from the curve platforms at Earlestown. Looks very different there these days!

 

 

I have many more to scan and post over the next few weeks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rivercider]

Hi Anthony, and welcome to the forum.

 

I expect this thread will be popular, old photos are always of interest, mystery locations especially so.

 

I think 60077 is at Leeds City where the Thames Clyde Express (from London St Pancras to Glasgow) reversed and changed locos

 

cheers

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Anthony

 

Historic photos that have not been shared before are of great value, not for the photographic artistry but their content.

 

The first photo is full of interesting stuff for wagon nutters. I have no idea where it was taken, and the loco is a standard LMS 3F 0-6-0T "Jinty". The wagons with the containers in them are, from loco backwards,

 

A LNER six plank open with wooden underframe, it is not fitted with vacuum brakes unlike the rest of the train,

 

Second is either a LMS or BR five plank wagon with corrugated steel ends, this looks like a recent conversion from 2 shoe unfitted Morton brake to fitted 4 shoe brake. The fresh looking paint suggests this. Many LMS and BR built wagons of this type had vacuum brakes fitted as part of the modernisation plan.

 

Third is harder to make out as it could be a LMS, LNER, SR or BR 5 plank wagon with wooden ends, there is also a possibility it could be a GWR 5 1/2 plank wagon. Again it looks like it could recently been rebuilt from unfitted to fitted.

 

The fourth wagon is very similar but appears not to have a tie bar that suggests it was built with an 8 shoe fitted brake gear, I would take a guess it is an LMS wagon.

 

The fith and sixth wagons are both LNER or BR steel bodied open wagons, both appear to be in bauxite livery which should mean they are fitted with vacuum brakes. These two are carrying A type containers. All the others have BD containers as their loads.

 

I will let someone else enthuse about the wagons in the sidings at the back......mind you the ex-MR coach looks interesting.

 

Do you see what I mean by quality is not always important, but the content is.

 

Thanks for sharing.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Clive Mortimore

[Branwell]

Hello Anthony and welcome aboard.

 

As rivercider said, the second photo is Leeds - that's the Queens Hotel in the background.

 

Regards,

 

David V

[Ray M]

Dead Cert, Leeds on the second  photo.

[MPR]

Hi Anthony,

 

Thanks very much for posting these photographs - I look forward to seeing more of them (and no doubt learning from the comments and discussions they will spark!

Best Wishes

Martin

[david.hill64]

Thanks for posting these: please keep them coming!

[The Lurker]

Good photos, thanks for posting

[Purley Oaks]

Hi Anthony

Great to see new photographs, thanks for posting

Mal

[jwealleans]

Oh, yes, we like new photographs.  To pick up where Clive left off, I like the ex-LMS 3 plank rear left with the two A type containers in it.  The conlflat on the end of that cut is also interesting - either a very short conflat or one of the larger (AFP?) 'Birds Eye' type insulated containers.  Would that put this in the early 1960s?

Edited July 25, 2014 by jwealleans

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Jonathan

 

I think the container wagon in the back siding is a BR or GWR conflat A with an FM container. The double bolster looks like an LMS one, Kirk did a kit for these, I believe it was in Colin Ashby's range but not sure if it still available.

[Anthony_S]

Thank you all for your replies.

 

I believe that my grandfather was a Leeds United fan and visited Elland Road quite often, so it makes sense that he would take photographs at the station there. That said, included in my pile of photographs are a football programme for Preston North End dated April 21st 1951 and an undated Sheffield Wednesday one from about the same period.

 

I had no idea that there was such variation in the wagons holding the containers! Fascinating stuff. Here is another photo of the same train from a different angle. In this one there is a much better view of the goods warehouse in the background, does any one know where this is?

 

 

The next photograph is the only one I have which has detailed notes written on the back. It reads; 46158 The Loyal Regiment   London - Manchester train entering Manchester London Road station Headed by "Royal Scot" class 4-6-0 46158 The Loyal Regiment. Saturday 9th August 1958

 

 

45609 Gilbert & Ellice Islands

 

 

The next two photos were taken at a location I spent many hours in the early 1990s watching trains go by without ever knowing that there were fairly extensive sidings here! Winwick Quay

 

 

[Fat Controller]

That first wagon has also had the bottom two end planks replaced by steel channel; quite a common repair, where things like pieces of steel have gone through the ends. Not easy to model, at least not if you're trying it on an R-T-R body..

Carrying containers in opens was quite popular where high-value, or military, traffic was being carried, as it made it difficult to rob the contents of the container; I wonder if the photo was taken somewhere where there was an MoD or similar facility nearby? Could it be Warrington, with traffic from Burtonwood, for example?

I'm not sure about that building being a goods warehouse, as there seems to be a fence between the end of the building and the railway.

[Rivercider]

The 0-6-0T 3F tank 47366 was allocated to Sutton Oak in my locoshed books of 1955 and 1959, that is St Helens isn't it? Does that help?

 

cheers

[TheSignalEngineer]

The Waverley was probably again at Leeds.

[dagrizz]

Nice, shortish train to hang behind our DoG models. No doubt someone can tell us which vehicle types they are.

 

Graham

[buckdancer]

45609 was involved in a bad smash on 18th May 1948 and was also a very early Jubilee withdrawal in September 1960:

 

From http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMAW8E_Wath_Rail_Crash_Memorial

 

"The express train was travelling from St. Pancras to Bradford. There were two locomotives, twelve coaches and 194 passengers. At a speed of 60-65 miles per hour the train derailed due to track distortion caused by very hot weather. Seven passengers and Driver B. Wilshire, of locomotive number 45609 "Gilbert and Ellice Islands", were killed and 55 injured. Fire service, first aid and mine rescue staff from the nearby Manvers Main Colliery helped at the scene of the accident, and the colliery canteen supplied refreshments for the rescuers."

[hmrspaul]

The 0-6-0T 3F tank 47366 was allocated to Sutton Oak in my locoshed books of 1955 and 1959, that is St Helens isn't it? Does that help?

 

cheers

Carrying a FM insulated container in an unfitted wagon seems a little 'odd'. The container is also pristine; perhaps it is being delivered having been newly built, perhaps at Earlstown? I can't read the FM number to say where it was built.

 

Paul

[edward66]

There is an interesting old van in the background of the photo showing the front view of 47366, obviously part of an engineers train. It has two small windows. I think I recognise it or its type but can't identify it. It also has two interesting "boxes" on its roof. Anybody know more?

 

Edward

[Fat Controller]

There is an interesting old van in the background of the photo showing the front view of 47366, obviously part of an engineers train. It has two small windows. I think I recognise it or its type but can't identify it. It also has two interesting "boxes" on its roof. Anybody know more?

 

Edward

I suspect the 'boxes' on the roof might be roof-lights to give extra illumination to a workshop of some sort- the GWR built some vehicles like this. In this case, it's a conversion, I think. Given the recessed doors, I wonder if it's a former LNER Fish van of some sort?

[jonny777]

Excellent photos, especially the goods ones with so much of interest to the modeller. I dont think that I have ever seen a container in a 6 plank wagon before, and it does look a very new container, as do a few of the others behind it, so I would agree with hmrspaul and hazard a guess that they are about to be delivered elsewhere.

[hmrspaul]

Excellent photos, especially the goods ones with so much of interest to the modeller. I dont think that I have ever seen a container in a 6 plank wagon before, and it does look a very new container, as do a few of the others behind it, so I would agree with hmrspaul and hazard a guess that they are about to be delivered elsewhere.

I didn't want to infer that a container in an open merchandise was unusual. It was quite common. What is not common is for that wagon to be non continously braked. The containers are being shunted, it is a different wagon and container next to the loco in each photo - although both are unfitted; LNER 6 plank in the first and LMS in the second (and it looks like it doesn;t have a trace of paint on it!). I'm surprised no one has suggested a location, it has a lot of very noticeable features - that long shed and massive goods shed/warehouse. I must admit neither remind me of anywhere, but my knowledge of NW England railways is poor.

 

Paul

[TheSignalEngineer]

There is an interesting old van in the background of the photo showing the front view of 47366, obviously part of an engineers train. It has two small windows. I think I recognise it or its type but can't identify it. It also has two interesting "boxes" on its roof. Anybody know more?

 

Edward

It looks like one of Pooley's weighing machine vans. 

[AberdeenBill]

The FM container is maybe(??) FM12576B or FM12526B.

 

Bill

[hmrspaul]

The FM container is maybe(??) FM12576B or FM12526B.

 

Bill

Thanks. They were both built at Wolverton during 1950. I don't know if that helps? The scenes don't look so early to me. The lack of any discernable logo on the 3F is noticeable.

 

Paul

Edited July 29, 2014 by hmrspaul