Up or Down?

[DaveArkley]

Which direction was nominated Up and Down on the WR.

 

Did it change some-place between Carlisle and Edinburgh?

 

Many thanks,

dave

[Colin Stewart]

Dave

 

The line going in the direction of London is normally the up line,

 

Hope that helps

 

Colin

[DaveArkley]

Dave

 

The line going in the direction of London is normally the up line,

 

Hope that helps

 

Colin

 

Normally that would be my assumption too. But being mostly in Scotland I wondered if Up was deemed to be toward Edinburgh.

 

Anyone know for sure?

 

Cheers

Dave

[JeremyC]

The accident report into the derailment of a Waverley route train near Carlisle on 3rd Jan 1931 describes the train as the 12 noon, LNER up express passenger train, Edinburgh Waverley to St Pancras....

 

Jeremy

[Mad McCann]

As an Anglo-Scottish mainline, it conformed to the up-down standard of the other big trunk routes, ie; London-'up'. Your assumption about internal routes, eg Fort William-Glasgow or Stranraer-Glasgow are correct. Glasgow bound would be 'up' in those cases.

 

D.

[Hawick_1987]

Glad somebody could clear this 'up' ... i'll get ma jaiket 

[pH]

As an Anglo-Scottish mainline, it conformed to the up-down standard of the other big trunk routes, ie; London-'up'. Your assumption about internal routes, eg Fort William-Glasgow or Stranraer-Glasgow are correct. Glasgow bound would be 'up' in those cases.

 

D.

You've brought up one of my (I hope) minor obsessions. Up until at least 1942 (because that's the last specific reference I've seen), Stranraer to Glasgow was 'down'! I don't know if it still was in BR days.

 

The original G&SW mainline to Carlisle was by the Glasgow and Paisley Joint to Paisley, then through Dalry and Kilmarnock. That meant G&SW trains from Glasgow to Paisley were going in the 'up' direction, and this included those going to the Clyde coast and Stranraer. (Caley trains going from Glasgow to Paisley on the Joint line, on the other hand, were going 'down'!)

 

David L Smith, in at least two places in 'Legends of the Glasgow and South Western Railway in LMS Days', shows lists of trains travelling south (at Ayr and Girvan) and describes them as 'up' trains. In one of those cases, he writes that he didn't have time to note the 'down' trains i.e. those towards Glasgow.

 

I agree with the rest of your post, and specifically that Edinburgh to Carlisle would be 'up'. Sorry for the OT excursion.

[fegguk]

When the new line open to tweedbank..................

[pH]

When the new line opens to tweedbank..................

A very good point! I would think, since it won't be a through route, that towards Edinburgh would be 'up'.

[Edwin_m]

I believe I read somewhere that away from Edinburgh is "up", as with the original line.  This means that the trains, which leave Edinburgh on the ECML in the up direction, remain as up or down trains over their entire journeys. 

[62440]

I wondered what the Up and Down would be on the Berwickshire branch since it connected two main lines to London in a sort of "U" configuration.  The signal box diagram for Duns gives Up to Greenlaw and Down to Chirnside.

 

I assume that Up on the Berwickshire line was in the Reston to Ravenswood Junction direction.   I guess a Down train from Berwick to St Boswells would become an Up train once on the branch at Reston! ~ Confusing, or what?

 

For interest, on the Kelso branch, it is Up from Kelso Junction to Tweedmouth.

 

Bruce

[DaveArkley]

Thanks all,

 

Seems that Carlisle bound is Up so I'll use that convention.

 

Cheers

Dave

[cessna152towser]

Towards London is the conventional definition of "Up Line"..

I remember when I lived in Paisley and the "Up" line was towards the Clyde Coast since the overnight sleeper to London took the Ayrshire coast route to Dalry then to Kilmarnock and the G & SW route to Carlisle.

After Dalry-Kilmarnock closed, the overnight sleeper ceased to call at Paisley Gilmour Street and the "Up" and "Down" were reversed, as trains towards London would now travel either via Glasgow Central with reversal there, (as was the case with the Up Royal Scot which started from Ayr for a couple of years in the early nineteen eighties) or directly by going "down the hole" or "down the Burma road" at Shields Junction and direct from there to join the Caley main line southbound at Larkfield.

At the time the platform numbers at Paisley Gilmour Street were reversed, with platform 1 being re-numbered as platform 4, platform 2 becoming platform 3 etc.

I often wondered at the necessity for this as even today it still remains possible to reach Paisley from London via the Ayrshire coast without reversal by using the Mauchline to Newton-on-Ayr link.

Similarly with the Waverley Route, if Up now becomes towards Edinburgh it will need to be changed back again if/when the line from Tweedbank to Carlisle re-opens.