Gas Coal Hopper Wagons - Grey or Black

[M.I.B]

I have been staring at the Russell GWR wagons book to try and make my mind up whether the gas coal hopper wagons were grey or black.

 

And why were they lettered "LOCO" when the coal was for use in the gasworks at Swindon?

 

Many thanks as always.

[MarkAustin]

I have been staring at the Russell GWR wagons book to try and make my mind up whether the gas coal hopper wagons were grey or black.

 

And why were they lettered "LOCO" when the coal was for use in the gasworks at Swindon?

 

Many thanks as always.

I've always been intensley suspicious of this theory that GWR Departmental stock was painted black---I've never seen anything official to confirm this, and "Great Western Way" does not mention this. My belief is that the GAW painted all wagons (brown stock excluded) grey, but, as the GWR grey when new was a pretty dark shade, and as the departmental stock wasn't used as much, it was just less weathered and appeared darker next to Revenue stock. I'd go with grey.

 

Mark A

[M.I.B]

Thanks Mark.  Gas coal wagons would have had a hard life, so I'll just go for a standard grey.

 

 

Why the "LOCO" script though.  The GWR was always at pains to be correct and accurate, so why not "GAS COAL" on the hoppers instead?

[richbrummitt]

I *think* it was to denote a grade of coal. As in there was coal and then there was loco coal. The latter being better for superior, but not always necessary depending on the application. I presume that the gas works, for whatever reason, were required to have the better coal as used in the firebox.

[Fat Controller]

I *think* it was to denote a grade of coal. As in there was coal and then there was loco coal. The latter being better for superior, but not always necessary depending on the application. I presume that the gas works, for whatever reason, were required to have the better coal as used in the firebox.

Different sorts of coal are suited to different applications; gas coal has a larger proportion of the hydro-carbons that produce gas. It also tends to clag together, so isn't suitable for firing boilers. Steam coal has lost some of these compounds, whilst anthracite, having been subjected to heat and pressure over millions of years, has lost them completely.

The wagons were probably lettered 'LOCO', as the CME would have been responsible for the gas works, which provided power and light for the Works, along with gas for the surrounding railway housing and also for carriage lighting. It would also have furnished coke for foundry and smithy, and tars for creosoting sleepers.

There would have been little chance of the wagons being misdirected into a train destined for one of the engine sheds, as none had facilities to unload them.

[M.I.B]

I would agree with that.  Thanks.

[Graham456]

A few years ago I visited Didcot and whilst wandering around came across a black box van, making me wander up for a closer look at it. where upon I could see if was gray just a very dark gray, revisiting a few years later the same wagon had faded down to the more normal waggon gray

is this what happened years ago causing the likes of Russell to say engineering stock was black and causing much grief for us modellers years later

[OnTheBranchline]

I have been staring at the Russell GWR wagons book to try and make my mind up whether the gas coal hopper wagons were grey or black.

 

And why were they lettered "LOCO" when the coal was for use in the gasworks at Swindon?

 

Many thanks as always.

 

Doesn't Jim Russell say in that book specifically that the Loco wagons were painted black?

[M.I.B]

Doesn't Jim Russell say in that book specifically that the Loco wagons were painted black?

See Mark Austin's post above.

[Mark Saunders]

I have just undercoated a Black plastic wagon in  Dark Grey and I can't tell the difference between the black and grey!

 

Mark Saunders

[57xx]

Also factor in under exposed photos that may make dark grey look black and over exposed ones making the grey look lighter and you've got a good recipe for confusion.

[NCB]

Doesn't Jim Russell say in that book specifically that the Loco wagons were painted black?

Jim worked for some years on the GWR, and his father was a GWR engine driver. So if he says they were black it's a pretty good indication that they were black.

[Il Grifone]

I understand that the livery for departmental wagons (i.e. LOCO etc.) became black in the (late?) thirties, but I may be wrong on this. The only ones I remember seeing were light grey with back patches around the lettering....

[asmay2002]

A few years ago I visited Didcot and whilst wandering around came across a black box van, making me wander up for a closer look at it. where upon I could see if was gray just a very dark gray, revisiting a few years later the same wagon had faded down to the more normal waggon gray

is this what happened years ago causing the likes of Russell to say engineering stock was black and causing much grief for us modellers years later

Didcot deliberately paint their wagons a bit darker than the GWR did knowing they will fade.

[Dave47549]

.

 

[Il Grifone]

Somewhere about half way between the two....

 

The one on the right could certainly be described as "black"  (also the crane).

[57xx]

I've finally seen the evidence to convince me that the "departmental black" is a myth. Page 114 of The Big Four in Colour 1935-1950 clearly shows two Loco coal hoppers, nos 53071 in 16" lettering and 53081 with post 1936 4" lettering, both in goods grey. The colour picture taken in 1937 is more convincing to me than fuzzy memories or modern paint formulas used in preservation.

[garethashenden]

It may also be worth noting that unlike the London & North Western, Midland, and many others, the Great Western had no traffic coal wagons, relying instead on private owner coal wagons for most domestic and industrial coal. Therefore, all GWR coal wagons are LOCO coal, even if they're actually for the gasworks.