RMweb Premium Reorte Posted April 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 30, 2015 New Street ? The bit where the trains run....platforms.....is that going to be sorted ? I see little evidence on my latest trip in March.I was speaking to someone the other day who'd just come up from Birmingham and he seemed to think one end of it is currently much better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidH Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 There is no getting away from the fact that concrete does not age well. It's a lazy, cheap building material. Why order millions of bricks or thousands of cut stones when you can pour it, forget it and have a cuppa. Yet has lasted 2,000 years in Rome. Roman concrete has a different mix to modern concrete, which has helped it last, but that's a different point - I just find it hard to imagine being in the Pantheon, and just think that the roof was the product of a lazy engineer. I'd say that concrete, whilst being a fairly quick to use material, has made so much more building possible in modern times, and I think we'd be a lot, lot poorer off - particularly in terms of infrastructure and public buildings - if it wasn't around. It can be used lazily, true; used poorly or innappropriately, as well; but I can wander around Britain and give you dozens of examples of lazy use of bricks too. I rather like a lot of the Brutalist/Modernist architecture around the world; I like Victorian buildings too. I accept that many people here hate it. Isn't it all just personal taste when it comes down to it? I'd rather like to live in something like that glass and concrete building pictured earlier ... And I like the new New Street roof too ... getting back on topic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted April 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 30, 2015 I'd say that concrete, whilst being a fairly quick to use material, has made so much more building possible in modern times, and I think we'd be a lot, lot poorer off - particularly in terms of infrastructure and public buildings - if it wasn't around.We're a lot poorer because of it IMO. A great deal of what has been built with it hasn't been built to give us things to make life better but to cope with excessive population growth (so arguably it's a symptom). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakydoke Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 New Street ? The bit where the trains run....platforms.....is that going to be sorted ? I see little evidence on my latest trip in March. I was speaking to someone the other day who'd just come up from Birmingham and he seemed to think one end of it is currently much better. It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the platform level refurbishment won't be completed until late 2016. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Three photos of New Street, from daylight to night drawing in. 17892093705_57122169a2_b.jpg 17892664761_46a93ab00d_b.jpg 17705890519_e397145693_b.jpg . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Three photos of New Street, from daylight to night drawing in. 17892093705_57122169a2_b.jpg 17892664761_46a93ab00d_b.jpg 17705890519_e397145693_b.jpg . Those are great photos! Did you use HDR? Birmingham has become a very colorful city (compared with the soot black buildings I remember in the early 1950s!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Those are great photos! Did you use HDR? They're not mine Paul. That's why I only posted links to the photos, which are hosted on the New St. redevelopment thread, on the Skyscraper City web site. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 We're a lot poorer because of it [concrete] IMO. A great deal of what has been built with it hasn't been built to give us things to make life better but to cope with excessive population growth ... Reminds me of my appointment with an acupuncturist in Chester le Street 30 years ago recommended for migraine. He turned out to be a 90+ year old American who'd acquired his skills while flying as a pilot for the Chinese Nationalists resisting the Japanese invasions of China in the mid 1930s. When after close questioning he discovered I was an architect he kicked me out, refusing to treat me - citing the same reason you give and destroying the earths greenery. A stroke a decade or so later eventually put paid to my migraine dh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted May 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 22, 2015 Rather harsh, it's not as if architects are creating the need for the buildings, unless it's something really awful I'm sure they try to do the best with what they're given. Doesn't stop me from being deeply upset by the state of the country and the direction of change though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Rather harsh, it's not as if architects are creating the need for the buildings, unless it's something really awful I'm sure they try to do the best with what they're given. Doesn't stop me from being deeply upset by the state of the country and the direction of change though. Mebbe - but it scared me! Just think what the ouwd b%$£&r could have done to me with all those pins... As for your last sentence - the country recently voted its preferences clearly enough. SWMBO and me are downsizing to Scotland. dhig Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Those three pics are nice...only lacking some AC electrics, a Peak or two and a Western. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Some video and photos here.... https://twitter.com/hashtag/BNS?src=hash Photos.... 12002192_911550152263579_7051947204168097036_n.jpg 11986338_1010584885658248_181885858875313564_n.jpg 21174761909_9f30326afe_b.jpg jxmlxW.jpg 20589875414_7c4e47f5be_b.jpg 21054551128_052db38e41_b.jpg 21054351390_8bb95e01dc_b.jpg https://www.flickr.com/photos/135289740@N06/21207030351/ 21191680305_9b2a36c7b9_b.jpg 20570525073_241cf6b1d2_b.jpg 20978714979_e60f2f975f_b.jpg CO3x2GFWUAARUir.jpg:large 21235715949_e83fbab210_b.jpg . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Thanks for the pics RRR, most informative So... we learn from the video: 50 years ago, the new New Street cost £4 million .....in 2015 the replacement Grand Central has cost £750 million. Wow! Thats progress ...and us a poor country trapped in endless Austerity - compared to when "We never had it so Good" dhig Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted September 18, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2015 Dunno, what's inflation been between then and now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 £4m in 1965 would be about £75m today (very rough domestic calculation). The extra 600-odd m was obviously the architects fees because they're so very clever. Edit: I'm not sure if my tongue is stuck in my cheek or not. Hideous modernity is obviously very very expensive. I still think I preferred the original hideous modernity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Using a straight inflation calculator will give a completely false figure. Allowing for inflation, 1965 wages and costs, relative to the present day have not just stayed put. Many of the building and technical skills paid much less in real terms 50 years ago. Similarly, material costs will have changed in real terms and there are other things like new technology in construction and the fitting out. It simply isn't comparing Apples with Apples. Having said that, we don't seem to be able to do public projects here, without it costing 'umpteen times more than it would cost as a private venture. There's a long list of other cases... Just for example, the Dome and Wembley Stadium New Street station is just one of the latest. Even at a local level the costs are way beyond what you'd expect.... Local council put up three small lamp post mounted signs, pointing to the Citizens Advice bureau. Cost £6000 Mini roundabout with no major change to the approach roads - £1.25 million (for some tarmac, cobbles, kerb stones, a handful of road signs and some white paint). 6 days work. Mind you, the new New St. will be bringing in ££millions in rents and leases from the new John Lewis store and the rest of the Grand Central complex. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 But WHY do we allow some firms to bid for a job at a certain price, then come back and say they need an extra n £million to complete it? And we pay. Surely, they need to be prosecuted for obtaining goods (the contract) by deception? And don't even get me started with the time taken to do a job. In the UK, we built 12 miles of relatively flat 8 lane dual carriage way on the same alignment as the original 4 lane, Peterborough to Alconbury. It took best part of four years. In the same time, the french built over 80 miles of four lane motorway, complete with viaducts, tunnels etc throuigh some of the most difficult terrain in France, with altitudes of over 1100m to contend with, AND they put in rest areas and service areas. What IS it with the UK and large jobs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivegreen Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 But WHY do we allow some firms to bid for a job at a certain price, then come back and say they need an extra n £million to complete it? And we pay. Surely, they need to be prosecuted for obtaining goods (the contract) by deception? And don't even get me started with the time taken to do a job. What IS it with the UK and large jobs? One - but far from the only - reason is that the contracts usually have in them penalty clauses relating to changes: if there are changes after the contract, with its initial headline cost, is signed, then enormous change fees are applied. This logic is based on the simple fact that humans change their minds. It is perhaps outrageous but hardly deception - any contractor who didn't have such a clause would be unlikely to survive. In the bidding process for the initial contract, of course, the headline price has enormous significance - it is to some extent analagous to the cost of home computer printers (very low, to attract us to buy them), compared with their running cost (the high price of ink, for example). I realise this is somewhat simplified, so please don't over-analyse what I have said (!). As to the time taken to do a job in some cases - there, I am at a loss for words. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted September 18, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2015 In the UK, we built 12 miles of relatively flat 8 lane dual carriage way on the same alignment as the original 4 lane, Peterborough to Alconbury. It took best part of four years. In the same time, the french built over 80 miles of four lane motorway, complete with viaducts, tunnels etc throuigh some of the most difficult terrain in France, with altitudes of over 1100m to contend with, AND they put in rest areas and service areas. What IS it with the UK and large jobs? Was the French job a completely new build and the UK one changing a road and keeping it in use at the same time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 The land area of France is roughly twice that of the UK, the useable (ie not Snowdon, Lake Distrct, Peaks, Dales, or Highlands of Scotland) is considerably more than twice. The population of France is only a bit greater than the UK. The cities are individually smaller in population than ours, everyone else is spread out over the country. People live close to their work, ie, commute less distance on average. All this makes big infrastructure projects easier to do, and impact on less people's lives. And they are some of the best engineers on the planet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Sorry - pedant question coming up: So is it the New New New Street Station, Birmingham? Or is the former New New Street Station, now Grand Central Station, Birmingham? In which case didn't the Mackems get there first? Villa will be nicking 'Stadium of Light' next! dhig Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Sorry - pedant question coming up: So is it the New New New Street Station, Birmingham? Or is the former New New Street Station, now Grand Central Station, Birmingham? The new, new, "New Street Station", is still to be known as "New Street Station", even though it's newer than the new one before it and a lot newer than the old New Street before the new one. Is that clear enough?. ....Villa will be nicking 'Stadium of Light' next! dhig Well, maybe something that rhymes with that....going on their recent footballing performances over last few years? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted September 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2015 Sorry - pedant question coming up: So is it the New New New Street Station, Birmingham? Or is the former New New Street Station, now Grand Central Station, Birmingham? In which case didn't the Mackems get there first? Villa will be nicking 'Stadium of Light' next! dhig The Railway station is still known as New Street and will still be in future. The retail complex it sits inside of is now called Grand Central. The thing is renaming station (or even platforms within them - hence all those stations with a platform 'zero') is a LOT harder these days thanks to the ammount of computer software within and outside of the railway industry that would need changing. Very different from the days where all you needed was simply some new nameboards and posters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Robert Shrives Posted September 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2015 Hi All, Having worked and travelled throughout the build I am for one glad it is drawing to a close - it will be open but not finished massive penalties of failing to get station open and John Lewis open, the shops are merely a cut and paste list from the recent Network Rail projects and I am sure somebody will be able to afford them. Still no daylight at platform level and more is covered as at "A" end the covered are bigger due to new walkway and providing space to clean cladding. Drivers have already complained about reflected light dazzling in cutting/ station throat. At last more lifts open will allow the first batch deffciencies to be attended to, even now the new escalators are being rebuilt, the shop area have the better stronger ones to start off which is a lesson learnt. I really hope that the cladding works but it has been likened to wrapping it in foil for christmas! Or worse proving you can polish a txxd!- or at least sprinkle glitter on one..... 700 million and at best the passengers on the platforms have more 6 up to 42 escalators, double number of lifts even if area available is less than the orginal and ... must be something else - oh yes automatic barriers to fight through when staffed - LM staff plus newbies TUPEd to VT so now clad in Red jackets so it must be better, dispatch still in hands of NR staff - ex LM TUPEd a while back. Luckily BHM gets new shops! I really hope it works as it was only chance to rebuild for 50 years and I hope all the staff who worked on it are proud of work done. It is a shame it is not what Birmingham needed ! Working close by to staff from that well known North Eastern open access operator I do share a laugh that NR has spent millons advertsing their 180s and HST services that run on East Coast metals!! Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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