SVR Autumn gala

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Mornin' all,

 

A great day at the SVR yesterday

 

 

I was impressed by the slick and efficient shunting operations at each station along the route....these disciplines are usually the tell tale separation between a rag bag bunch of occasionals who do a bit 'every now and then' and a top drawer preservation outfit with training regimes and inspection in place. The SVR might easily become the place for TOCs to send their staff for training packages that they are unable/unwilling to deliver themselves. 

 

The 7F proved elusive but otherwise both weather and trains 'played ball'. Apologies for sequencing of clips...swapping SD cards during the day didn't help.

 

Dave

[Dave Scott]

Thanks for the compliments. Re your shot at Eardington I was wondering at one time that we might have had to go to fog working but it never got quite that bad

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

...I'm unsure as to the guidelines for light railways and fog working Dave but I would imagine that the SVR is in possession of the requisite instructions.

 

Dave

[Blandford1969]

There are a complete set of rules within both rule book and appendix relating to fog working. Something in 20 years on the footplate I have yet to see in use (although its got near).

 

Glad you enjoyed your day out, we all enjoy the different workings rather than just go from a to b then back to a. There were guards refresher courses on unfitted workings earlier this year and rostering is positive so hopefully those who are more versed in such duties are rostered.

[Dave Scott]

...I'm unsure as to the guidelines for light railways and fog working Dave but I would imagine that the SVR is in possession of the requisite instructions.

 

Dave

Sorry - I should not assume that everyone knows how fog working operates. Yes SVR does have suitable rules and procedures, principally rule 94, There are probably more instructions in signalmans general instructions, traffic dont need those. What I do know is that each box has a specified distant object which if it cant be seen prompts fog working.

 

Re freight working noted by Blandford there are passenger guards conversion courses for freight working being organised

[The Stationmaster]

...I'm unsure as to the guidelines for light railways and fog working Dave but I would imagine that the SVR is in possession of the requisite instructions.

 

Dave

I believe the SVR works to the 1960 Block Regulations (and the old black Rule Book) so fog working would be covered but I wonder if they actually 'fog' signals (especially on busy weekends when trained staff must be at a premium, and they're hardly likely to have a list of Fogmen on call.

[Dave Scott]

I believe the SVR works to the 1960 Block Regulations (and the old black Rule Book) so fog working would be covered but I wonder if they actually 'fog' signals (especially on busy weekends when trained staff must be at a premium, and they're hardly likely to have a list of Fogmen on call.

The SVR rules dont cover distants but do refer to homes at which a signalman need to stop trains when a det would be placed by the signalman. I am a SVR guard and have the rules in front of me.

[Phil Bullock]

Cracking video Dave - really captures the essence of the weekend

 

Would have been there if hadn't been at Redditch show

 

Many thanks for posting

 

Phil

[brianusa]

Mornin' all,

 

A great day at the SVR yesterday

 

 

 

I was impressed by the slick and efficient shunting operations at each station along the route....these disciplines are usually the tell tale separation between a rag bag bunch of occasionals who do a bit 'every now and then' and a top drawer preservation outfit with training regimes and inspection in place. The SVR might easily become the place for TOCs to send their staff for training packages that they are unable/unwilling to deliver themselves. 

 

The 7F proved elusive but otherwise both weather and trains 'played ball'. Apologies for sequencing of clips...swapping SD cards during the day didn't help.

 

Dave

Very impressive fog and steam effect at Erdington, the 'ghost station'

 

Brian.

[Boris]

I would hope that running at 25 mph and only running over 16 miles the drivers would know pretty much where they are even in the fog without having to resort to fogging the distants.  Certainly HMRI and latterly the ORR are quite satisfied that generally preserved lines don't have to worry about fogging, and there are a good many that don't even use detonators.

 

Yes, bring officially foggy will put restrictions on certain things like passenger trains using Reg 9 (on certain railways) but certainly the ones I'm aware of don't need fogmen etc.

[Dave Scott]

I would hope that running at 25 mph and only running over 16 miles the drivers would know pretty much where they are even in the fog without having to resort to fogging the distants.  Certainly HMRI and latterly the ORR are quite satisfied that generally preserved lines don't have to worry about fogging, and there are a good many that don't even use detonators.

 

Yes, bring officially foggy will put restrictions on certain things like passenger trains using Reg 9 (on certain railways) but certainly the ones I'm aware of don't need fogmen etc.

You will note at post 7 I said SVR dont fog distants. There are provisions for foging homes where conflicting moves are not allowed under signalmans rules.

 

I for one would feel uncomfortable not having dets for emergency situations. The limited speed of trains is recognised in the rules but here is not the place to quote a "Private and not for publication" document

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

...if the publications used by the SVR are dated 1950 and 1960 respectively, as suggested above, then both are well outside the 25yr waiting period quoted for sensitive documents and are therefore 'fair game' for anyone to discuss at will....after all anyone can sell/purchase them.

 

Dave

[Dave Scott]

...if the publications used by the SVR are dated 1950 and 1960 respectively, as suggested above, then both are well outside the 25yr waiting period quoted for sensitive documents and are therefore 'fair game' for anyone to discuss at will....after all anyone can sell/purchase them.

 

Dave

Whilst based on the black book the SVR rulebook is a combination of current best practice with due allowance for steam traction. Whilst rule numbers follow the black book 55 is 55 it is dated October 2013 and is definitely not on sale

[The Stationmaster]

I would hope that running at 25 mph and only running over 16 miles the drivers would know pretty much where they are even in the fog without having to resort to fogging the distants.  Certainly HMRI and latterly the ORR are quite satisfied that generally preserved lines don't have to worry about fogging, and there are a good many that don't even use detonators.

 

Yes, bring officially foggy will put restrictions on certain things like passenger trains using Reg 9 (on certain railways) but certainly the ones I'm aware of don't need fogmen etc.

Generally the safety authorities (various) are not keen on the use of detonators on preserved etc lines as having them imports problems with security and control apart from introducing additional personal injury risks and creating yet another area where training is needed (which can be difficult where a large volunteer operating staff is involved).   That apart having and checking stocks of detonators introduces cost and management tasks which offer next to nothing for the time and cost involved with a need for secure storage and ammunition boxes or similar plus suitable containers for carrying them.

 

I think that is a very sensible approach and to be honest I can see no need at all for the use of detontators on such lines where speeds are low, road knowledge should be to a very high standard, and greatly simplified protection Rules should be in operation.

[Boris]

You will note at post 7 I said SVR dont fog distants. There are provisions for foging homes where conflicting moves are not allowed under signalmans rules.

 

What a delightfully arrogant answer, it would be more impressive if it was actually spelt correctly.

 

In my post I am making the point that because of the fact the drivers only need to learn 16 miles of route, and run on it at 25 miles per hour under your light railway order that Her Majesties Railway Inspectorate, and more recently the Office of the Rail Regulator, accept that preserved railways do not need to resort to placing detonators at Distant signals. 

 

Nobody is asking you to quote the SVR rulebook here, as you will know being able to quote any rulebook word for word is fairly meaningless, it is the understanding and application of it that are the important things.

 

I think you will also find that the preserved railways that use detonators are in the minority for the reasons that Mike stated.

[Dave Scott]

I made a slightly flipant remark re fogging and seem to have started a debate. Firstly i accept the Stationmasters coments and accept that the authorities are happy for heritage railways to not need dets. I have worked on 2 heritage railways which use dets and my personal opinion is that I am more comfortable with them than not. I accept that training and security are required but only a handful of grades require them. Signalmen, loco crew, guards and I believe p way. The training for all these grades is rigorous in any case so the additional training in the use of dets is a small part of it.

 

Protection requirements on SVR reflect the low speed and are simpler than the 1950 black book. I accept that heritage railways which still use dets are in the minority but that is no reason to abandon their use if my management believe there is value in their retention.

 

I am sorry Boris found my response arrogant, I was simply refering him to an earlier post and quoting fact. Quoting the rule book verbatum would prove little other than i am a terible typist and misspell even when copying. Do I understand the rule book? i will leave that desision to the SVR guards inspector when I next do my re-rules exam or get a ride along from one of his assistants. Or even a visit from HMRI, I believe they have been known to turn up unanounced

[Blandford1969]

They continue to be a topic of discussion and I'm sure will be until they go. 

[Bulleidnutter]

I suggest that the people debating the use of fog working and dets take one of the very early morning trains at the ASG i.e. the 0513 which I travelled on both Saturday and Sunday mornings of the gala. Saturday morning was a clear morning with no fog whatsoever. Sunday couldn't have been more different. We came around Alveley miners curves and could not see the golf course which was less than 10 metres away over the fence. Highley is one of the more prone locations for fog and fog working during galas. Fog working was deployed on the Sunday morning as we rolled down the bank and dets exploded. As many footplate crew including Blandford will know, the up home at Highley can creep up on you especially in trying conditions.

[Blandford1969]

If i remember correctly there are something like 12 rail joints from the top to the Up home at Highley.  Similarly there are 40 from Orchard crossing to Northwood, there are also certain patches of rail and faults which tell you exactly where you are. 

[Dave Scott]

If i remember correctly there are something like 12 rail joints from the top to the Up home at Highley.  Similarly there are 40 from Orchard crossing to Northwood, there are also certain patches of rail and faults which tell you exactly where you are. 

Then pw bring in their thermit welder or lay CWR  and there you are with half the joints or none at all. Just an observation.

[Blandford1969]

This is true but there are always other things that tell like the track just outside Kidder tunnel that has a loud brrrrrr sound, or the slight roll just beyond the crossing in the woods in the Down direction, or the iron bridge south of Sterns as you approach Bob's cottage which is normally where I would start to brake down to 15.

 

Certainly the longer welded sections alter what you can use, hopefully those sections will last a bit longer before they are changed, I can't remember where this winters relaying is.

 

Duncan

[Dave Scott]

This is true but there are always other things that tell like the track just outside Kidder tunnel that has a loud brrrrrr sound, or the slight roll just beyond the crossing in the woods in the Down direction, or the iron bridge south of Sterns as you approach Bob's cottage which is normally where I would start to brake down to 15.

 

Certainly the longer welded sections alter what you can use, hopefully those sections will last a bit longer before they are changed, I can't remember where this winters relaying is.

 

Duncan

Chris appears to have his hands full with the diesel depot and repairs to Bewdley viaducts. No mention of relays but there must be some

[The Stationmaster]

This is true but there are always other things that tell like the track just outside Kidder tunnel that has a loud brrrrrr sound, or the slight roll just beyond the crossing in the woods in the Down direction, or the iron bridge south of Sterns as you approach Bob's cottage which is normally where I would start to brake down to 15.

 

Certainly the longer welded sections alter what you can use, hopefully those sections will last a bit longer before they are changed, I can't remember where this winters relaying is.

 

Duncan

Proper 'age of steam' road knowledge at work here I'm pleased to see - it's all about far more than simply looking at what lies ahead; sound and 'feel' are as important as what you can see.