LNWR Oerlikon EMU dimensions

[t-b-g]

I know that a number of good folk on RMWeb have been building or contemplating building some of these from the London Road etches.

 

These are pretty much body parts only, so the underframes etc. need to be sourced.

 

Vincent Worthington is currently working on some for Camden Bank but has a query on the bogie centres as the etches have holes for the bogie centres but they don't match the centres of the motor car preserved at York. What we don't know is if the bogie centres of all three vehicles were the same or if the motor car has different centres to the other two vehicles (in which case the etched holes might be correct).

 

Vincent has drawings of the motor car as preserved but not of the centre or driving trailer cars.

 

Is there anybody out here able to help, either pointing us at some drawings or confirming the bogie centres?

 

I should just say that Vincent is plotting a visit to the NRM and the "Search Engine" in the near future, so he will be checking there.

 

Many thanks in anticipation.

 

Tony

[Xerces Fobe2]

Hi Tony

 

I have a part finished London Road Models Oerlikon EMU and have got what appear to be side elevation 4mm drawings of an Oerlikon 3 car set but without the dimensions, which you maybe able to scale from. I will look for it on my PC and forward you a copy

 

Nigel

Edited October 27, 2014 by Xerces Fobe2

[t-b-g]

Hi Tony

 

I have a part finished London Road Models Oerlikon  EMU and have got what appear to be side elevation 4mm drawings of an Oerlikon 3 car set but without the dimensions, which you maybe able to sale from. I will look for it on my PC and forward you a copy

 

Nigel

 

Many thanks Nigel, much appreciated. It looks as if the bogie centres on all three vehicles are the same, which is what we needed to know.

 

Tony

[D9012]

Howdy-do fellow Oerlikon enthusiasts.

I have a set of 3 underframe drawings from the HMRS Metro-Cammell collection dated 1914, one for each car.   As they are at 1 inch to the foot scale they will not be photocopied!  But can be purchased from the HMRS at around £15 each, if you want all the glorious detail.

Give me a while to dig them out and I'll see what  the measurements are.

 

Cheers

 

[D9012]

That took a few minutes!   Although very close, the drawings I have show slight differences.   The Motor Car measures up at 57' over headstocks, bogies are 8'9" at 37'6" centres.

The Trailer and Driving Trailer are the same as each other at 56'11" over headstocks, bogies are 9'0" at 38'0" centres.  These two drawings are 14065 and 14071 in the HMRS catalogue.

I hope that helps for a start.    

The next questions, then, are -  what is the closest match to bogie design and underframe design available commercially, particularly for the Motor car?   Roof profiles are quirky.  Anything else?!

[t-b-g]

That took a few minutes!   Although very close, the drawings I have show slight differences.   The Motor Car measures up at 57' over headstocks, bogies are 8'9" at 37'6" centres.

The Trailer and Driving Trailer are the same as each other at 56'11" over headstocks, bogies are 9'0" at 38'0" centres.  These two drawings are 14065 and 14071 in the HMRS catalogue.

I hope that helps for a start.    

The next questions, then, are -  what is the closest match to bogie design and underframe design available commercially, particularly for the Motor car?   Roof profiles are quirky.  Anything else?!

 

Superb!

 

I am pretty sure that Vincent is in the HMRS so he will be sure to be in touch with them.

 

It does actually back up what he was musing over, that the bogie centres are not the same on all the vehicles.

 

Vincent is adapting Hornby 2 BIL bogies, which are pretty close apart from needing new shoe pick ups. The rest of the underframe was going to be adapted from the Hornby one but he has decided to scratchbuild now. The "glorious detail" is exactly what he wants!

 

I will ask him what he is doing about the roof as there are now a couple of interested parties.

 

Many thanks,

 

Tony

Edited October 4, 2014 by t-b-g

[Xerces Fobe2]

The Oerlikon roof is has quite a shallow curvature which it is hard to produce accurately . I have used plastic DC kit rooves from Charlie's EMU range and altered their profile however I sm having difficulty securing them onto the brass sides and I am also not over happy with their overall look so an alternative solution would be welcome!

 

Nigel

Edited October 4, 2014 by Xerces Fobe2

[Enterprisingwestern]

Vincent will no doubt make a jig to assist in the roof profile.

I see another visit to Ikea coming on!

 

Mike.

[D9012]

As an aside to this, I'd been expecting a book on the North London Electrics from the North London Railway Historical Society, but it''s about a year behind suggested publishing date.

 

Interesting Vince is using the 2-BIL - I have recently considered that, as it has a 8'9" wheel base and looks reasonably similar.    With regards to the underframes, we have had Pete Stanton of the LNWRS considering whether they could be matched to any ordinary LNWR coaching stock but we've drawn a blank so far.   Haven't even gone near a roof yet!

[Xerces Fobe2]

For the underframes I used parts from some scap Graham Farish suburbans again; these were from very old models and 3 sets of them were made of metal whilst the third was plastic and they look a reasonable represenration.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Xerces Fobe2

[Stanley Melrose]

I have scanned copies of original LNWR drawings of various parts of the Oerliken U/F and bogies.  PM me if you'd like copies emailed to you.

 

Stan

[t-b-g]

I have scanned copies of original LNWR drawings of various parts of the Oerliken U/F and bogies.  PM me if you'd like copies emailed to you.

 

Stan

 

Hello Stan,

 

PM sent,

 

Many thanks for the kind offer.

 

Tony

[t-b-g]

I have spoken with Vincent today and he is highly impressed and most appreciative.

 

Many years ago he took a drawing along to a little workshop in Bolton and had a chap cut some to the correct profile for him from a type of timber we think is called Idigbo. The bloke with the workshop (long since closed) recommended it as something that wouldn't twist or warp and many years later it hasn't.

 

The idea came from a David Jenkinson book on building carriages.

 

So the roof was sorted a long time ago but sadly not in a way that will be easy for others to re-create. 

 

Tony

Edited October 4, 2014 by t-b-g

[coachmann]

About 12 years ago I etched the LNWR M12 push pull non-driving trailer built in 1916. Apart from raised wooden beading, it was identical to Oerlikon electric stock. The low roof was a problem, solved by Mike Radford who pressed out roofs in aluminium. I am not over-keen on such clip over roofs and have set aside an old Triang roof for my own coach. I suspect the roof came from a CKD coach 'kit.

[t-b-g]

Vincent has asked me to pass on his most appreciative thanks to those who have been so helpful in coming up with all the information he was looking for in a very short time!

 

He has been gathering information on Oerlikon sets for many years and pretty much all the gaps he still had have now been filled in the last 24 hours, thanks to the power of RMWeb.

 

Once he gets a bit further with the construction, I will see if I can persuade him to provide me with some  photos to post so you can see what the information has gone to help produce. Knowing Vincent, they will be rather nice!

 

One thing we have spoken about is to see if copies of the drawings that have come to light might possibly be sent to John Redrup as it was a lack of information that stopped him doing more than just the body shells. I don't think that the market for Oerlikon sets will ever be huge but it might be worth twisting his arm up his back to do a "finishing" set of parts as an add on to the body etches.

 

Tony 

[Stanley Melrose]

I may have already offered the scans that I have now copied to two on this thread to John Redrup but I'm sure he will shortly be in receipt of even better versions than mine in a week or so . . .

 

Now if anyone would like to help with the 1927 stock, I would be a very happy bunny.  I have all the information I need but would appreciate help in producing sides and ends that could be produced using the Silhouette Portrait cutting tool that I have acquired for this purpose.  Once I have tool to produce the components, I would, of course, make them available to anyone else who would like them.  I even have the Palatine Models U/Fs to sit the bodies on.  They'll need a bit of adjustment to represent the GEC stock but they will do the job, I'm sure.

 

Stan

[Xerces Fobe2]

I may have already offered the scans that I have now copied to two on this thread to John Redrup but I'm sure he will shortly be in receipt of even better versions than mine in a week or so . . .

 

Now if anyone would like to help with the 1927 stock, I would be a very happy bunny.  I have all the information I need but would appreciate help in producing sides and ends that could be produced using the Silhouette Portrait cutting tool that I have acquired for this purpose.  Once I have tool to produce the components, I would, of course, make them available to anyone else who would like them.  I even have the Palatine Models U/Fs to sit the bodies on.  They'll need a bit of adjustment to represent the GEC stock but they will do the job, I'm sure.

 

Stan

Hi Stan I have a bpnumber of photos of GEC.stock but no drawings however I would be interested in the components you will hopefully be producing. I plan to have 3 GEC sets 1 is already built and the other 2 are WIP however they are based on Farish or Dapol coaches so are a compromise.

 

If I can assist in anyway just PM me.

 

XF

[terry.ecmr]

Hello to everybody on this thread.

 

I know Nigel knows I have a GEC stock emu on 'Earl's Court' which was made using Dapol/Airfix Suburban's.

 

It would be great if, somehow, an Oerlikon could be cobbled together by any/all of us.

 

Terry

[Stanley Melrose]

I have scanned copies of original LNWR drawings of various parts of the Oerliken U/F and bogies.  PM me if you'd like copies emailed to you.

 

Stan

 

I've just emailed copies (kindly cleaned up by Xerces Fobe) to those who requested them.  If I have missed anyone, forgive me as I've had a busy week so send me a PM reminder.  If anyone else wants copies, a PM, too, please.

 

Stan

[terry.ecmr]

I've got copies of the bogies, underframe details etc. and I have decided to take the plunge.

 

I'm going to try and produce some resin castings for the bogies. I hoping to have a bit of time around the second week in November and I will start having a go then.

I may also have a go at the various underframe fittings as well.

 

Terry

[pstanton]

In the London and North western Railway Society we have just been loaned a whole album of black and white photos that cover Oerlikons, Siemens, 1927 stock and 501s.  They are currently being scanned and should become part of the LNWRS collection.  I will do my best to make them available; while not sharp they do appear to be a new discovery.

[muswellmetro1]

In the London and North western Railway Society we have just been loaned a whole album of black and white photos that cover Oerlikons, Siemens, 1927 stock and 501s.  They are currently being scanned and should become part of the LNWRS collection.  I will do my best to make them available; while not sharp they do appear to be a new discovery.

very interesting

 

My Winter project WAS to  build a 1927 three coach set in 0 gauge by using three 7mm LMS suburban Ian Kirk Coach kits, though as the detailing on the kits is not that good,so I  have deferred the project

[t-b-g]

I would just like to say that the response to the initial enquiry has been quite astonishing!

 

Photos and drawings that will allow Vincent to do a "proper" job on the EMU sets (he is building 4 x 3 car sets) have very kindly been shared by various good people and he is now beavering away turning and milling many brackets, tanks and other gubbins.

 

He is making extra underframe detail parts in the hope that they may become useful as masters for casting parts for others to use, possibly as an "add on" detailing pack for the London Road etches. These things tend to take a while to sort out but I will post on here and keep folk updated if and when progress has been made.

 

Thanks again to everybody who has contributed. It just goes to show how much information is out there and how good something like RMWeb can be at finding such information and getting it to where it is needed!

 

Tony 

[coachmann]

There was a standee section with long inward facing bench seats. They were covered in very dark leather when I travelled in a M12 'Oerlikon' design push pull composite coach as a kid. I used altered Southern Pride seats in the few models I built. The windows nearest the doors were clear as far as I can remember but the sliding doors slid between an interior panel that contained frosted glass.......

Edited October 17, 2014 by coachmann

[bern4472]

Don't know if you have seen it but Railway World did an article on the Oerlikons in March 1960 that included seating diagrams for all three cars. See below: