Mike Boucher Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 The H2a Hoppers are nice, but it is the M1a/M1b and the Centipedes that are going to be the real wallet killers. Adrian At $140 list for 6 hoppers, I would say they're both wallet killers. I wouldn't mind having a few of those hoppers to go behind my Y6, but not at that price (I already have 40 Microtrains hoppers in N&W, that's a long enough train for me for now) Brooklyn Loco Works has them at $113 for the 6. Better, but still not cheap... The centipede isn't going to be cheap either. Brooklyn Loco Works has them listed at $187 each (DCC + sound), or $367 for a pair. Fascinating model, but hard for me to justify buying a pair... Also annoying that BLI insists on selling multi-car packs for the freight cars I would like ONE of the PRR H32 hoppers, but they only sell them in 4 packs! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 Mike - Wouldn't someone split a pack with you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 At $140 list for 6 hoppers, I would say they're both wallet killers. I wouldn't mind having a few of those hoppers to go behind my Y6, but not at that price (I already have 40 Microtrains hoppers in N&W, that's a long enough train for me for now) Brooklyn Loco Works has them at $113 for the 6. Better, but still not cheap... The centipede isn't going to be cheap either. Brooklyn Loco Works has them listed at $187 each (DCC + sound), or $367 for a pair. Fascinating model, but hard for me to justify buying a pair... Also annoying that BLI insists on selling multi-car packs for the freight cars I would like ONE of the PRR H32 hoppers, but they only sell them in 4 packs! While $140 list for 6 cars seems to be a lot, that is $23.34 each, which is about the current price point for a bulk pack of new, detailed cars. New singles from the likes of Atlas are in the $30 range (the new coil cars). The upcoming Fox Valley Southern Silverside coal gons are listing at $130 for a six-pack or $23 for a single (i could use a dozen or so...). The Trainworx quad hoppers list for $25. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Boucher Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Mike - Wouldn't someone split a pack with you? Not a bad idea. I think I'll send a message to my N-trak club seeing if anyone is interested in a "group purchase"... Thanx for the idea! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Boucher Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 While $140 list for 6 cars seems to be a lot, that is $23.34 each, which is about the current price point for a bulk pack of new, detailed cars. New singles from the likes of Atlas are in the $30 range (the new coil cars). The upcoming Fox Valley Southern Silverside coal gons are listing at $130 for a six-pack or $23 for a single (i could use a dozen or so...). The Trainworx quad hoppers list for $25. Adrian I know. There's been some serious price inflation in N scale in the past few years. When I was really active in the hobby (about 10 years ago), the expensive Microtrains cars were about $17 each. I recently pre-ordered a few Fox Valley H30's from BLW for $18 each. Not sure why the H2s should cost $5 more, considering the H30's look like a more difficult mold to have produced... I have a good sized collection of n scale rolling stock, from "back then", and plenty of locomotives. I find that I'm much more picky about what I "need" vs just what I "want". Especially since the only time I get to run anything is with the N-Trak club at shows. Its one of the reasons I'm doing much more British prototype O scale now. The kits may cost more, but I get a LOT more modeling enjoyment building the kits, even Slaters or Parkside plastic kits, than just taking a RTR car out of the box and putting it on the N-Trak layout every few months... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Steve - see the link above the pickie for roadvnames - MSRP $149.00! - my wallet is squealing in pain! Eeeeeek! More than 90 squid. There again, the Heljan 05 is over a ton, so I guess it's not that bad. steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
highpeak Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I don't know whether it's price-inflation or specification-creep. Joe Fugate made a point a while back on MRH that questioned whether we really need the current level of hi-fi rolling stock if the goal of a modeler is operation on anything over a smallish scale. I think Andy Reichert made a similar point on the U25C thread a few days ago. It's a bit of a conundrum. There have been endless debates on here between those who lament the price and could care less about delicate detail and those who would not want to see the hobby regress to the standards of days gone by. I don't know if there is any right or wrong answer, and you could argue if you have the space to be running 50 car trains you probably also have the disposable income to buy the hi-fi rolling stock, even if most of the detail is not visible as the train rolls along. I don't buy much in the way of RTR stuff so really I am just an observer of this, but not entirely disinterested. I doubt the 2-8-0 will be much use to me, but if it were, I'd be a bit reluctant to pay a lot of money (not saying the engine isn't worth the asking price) for a detailed engine that is going to have most of that detail carved away to be replaced by different detail that suits my purpose. I suppose the answer would be to wait for one to show up used and somewhat abused and hopefully cheap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Boucher Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I don't know whether it's price-inflation or specification-creep. Joe Fugate made a point a while back on MRH that questioned whether we really need the current level of hi-fi rolling stock if the goal of a modeler is operation on anything over a smallish scale. I think Andy Reichert made a similar point on the U25C thread a few days ago. It's a bit of a conundrum. There have been endless debates on here between those who lament the price and could care less about delicate detail and those who would not want to see the hobby regress to the standards of days gone by. I don't know if there is any right or wrong answer, and you could argue if you have the space to be running 50 car trains you probably also have the disposable income to buy the hi-fi rolling stock, even if most of the detail is not visible as the train rolls along. I don't buy much in the way of RTR stuff so really I am just an observer of this, but not entirely disinterested. I doubt the 2-8-0 will be much use to me, but if it were, I'd be a bit reluctant to pay a lot of money (not saying the engine isn't worth the asking price) for a detailed engine that is going to have most of that detail carved away to be replaced by different detail that suits my purpose. I suppose the answer would be to wait for one to show up used and somewhat abused and hopefully cheap. I'm probably in the "those who lament..." camp at this point. I think the hobby might be "over detailing and over pricing" itself too much. For example, my 10 year old son has HO. I miss the Athearn "blue box" simple kits. Not terribly detailed, but relatively inexpensive. Easy to upgrade when your modelling skills advance to the point when you WANT detailed rolling stock. Roundhouse had similarly priced/detailed kits. Now its all RTR super-detailed $30 freight cars. Giving those to a 10 year old and the delicate details tend to get broken easily. If I were still able to buy an Athearn kit, I could probably buy 2 kits for the price of one Atlas car (or even Athearn RTR!) be able to work with him to assemble the car, and they would be plenty detailed for him. Right now, the only options for "cheap" rolling stock are the low end Bachmann, whose quality is much less than the old Athearn kits, IMHO, or Accurail kits. Yet another reason I've stopped modelling in HO and focus more on 2 rail O scale and N-trak... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 There's masses of older Athearn et al kits on ebay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bok Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 For those who are looking for a very close, prototype, model, HO/N scale steam locomotive all you need to do is look at Bachmann's Spectrum 2-8-0 which is heavily copied from Illinois Central's 900 series. These steam engines were some of the last ones in the US running into the late 50s almost 60s and they were a nice size for smaller layouts. These models are extremely, economical, readily, available and very realistic. It's my favorite locomotive since my family moved close to where these engines ran in Illinois when I was a child, the Illinois Central was the first railroad I began working for in 68, as a brakeman, and it fits my power needs for a modern, steam excursion railroad which also handles some freight. Barry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVSNE Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I'm probably in the "those who lament..." camp at this point. I think the hobby might be "over detailing and over pricing" itself too much. For example, my 10 year old son has HO. I miss the Athearn "blue box" simple kits. Not terribly detailed, but relatively inexpensive. Easy to upgrade when your modelling skills advance to the point when you WANT detailed rolling stock. Roundhouse had similarly priced/detailed kits. Now its all RTR super-detailed $30 freight cars. Giving those to a 10 year old and the delicate details tend to get broken easily. If I were still able to buy an Athearn kit, I could probably buy 2 kits for the price of one Atlas car (or even Athearn RTR!) be able to work with him to assemble the car, and they would be plenty detailed for him. Right now, the only options for "cheap" rolling stock are the low end Bachmann, whose quality is much less than the old Athearn kits, IMHO, or Accurail kits. Yet another reason I've stopped modelling in HO and focus more on 2 rail O scale and N-trak... Mike: There are a number of options available for your grandson that are in many ways better (especially in the paint/decorating department) to anything Athearn produced in kit form. These include: 1. Accurail 2. Bowser 3. The "Yardmaster" boxcar originally made by Branchline and now offered by Atlas. Hope this helps, Marty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVSNE Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 It's my favorite locomotive since my family moved close to where these engines ran in Illinois when I was a child, the Illinois Central was the first railroad I began working for in 68, as a brakeman, and it fits my power needs for a modern, steam excursion railroad which also handles some freight. Barry Barry, And those Bachmann engines have been the backbone of my fleet (heavily modified to look like CV N-5-a class engines - see an article by Iain Rice in MR back in the late 90s for the "class" engine). I've parked a beautiful brass import of the CV N-5-a next to a modified Bachmann engine and people have been unable to determine which was brass and which was Bachmann unless they studied the tender and running gear very closely. On the layout during an operating session they suit my needs fine. I had one hit the floor during a recent session - I wasn't thrilled by that but I would have been a lot less thrilled if it had been one of $1200+ brass engines. But the Bachmann fleet is beginning to show signs of wear and tear and in some cases the engines are simply wearing out - and since Bachmann has "evolved" how they go together over the years so I can't simply take my already detailed boiler shells and plop them on a new Bachmann drive. That's one of the reason I'm going to look real close at the BLI engines as a potential "Phase II" version for my operating fleet. I think they're better constructed (with the price tag to match) than the Bachmann models. But those Bachmann "IC" 2-8-0s will always have a soft spot in my heart. Marty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 The Bachmann locos, while not marketed as a particular prototype, do seem to be pretty closely based on something real, and then produced in lots of completely freelance variants, with differing details, tenders etc. I don't really have a problem with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I have no idea what's prototypical and what isn't, so those steamers wouldn't really bother me. Not that I'm likely to pick one up - not exactly all that knowledgeable on US steam and I'd rather stick to diesels as I've already got loads. I might pick up another steamer for excursion trains one my layout gets to a size where I can use them. If I get anything, though, it'll be a Bachmann Berkshire with DCC sound. Those things look awesome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 The modern scene is much easier to model with consists of diesels from all other the country at the moment - I saw a BC Rail locomotive in Newark recently. I took this in 2008 on the southern BNSF Transcon in Arizona - it used to be quite rare - even rarer (sic) seeing a NS as the lead locomotive on a BNSF mainline: DSC_221238.jpg Ironic choice of image, Dash 9s may well be the modern diesel equivalent of the point of this thread - bemoaning lack of standardisation. After all "Everyone" makes a Dash 9. (Well, Athearn, and Kato, and MTH...) But...nobody does one that matches those NS loco's, nobody does one that matches the majority of BNSF loco's either, nobody does one that matches any CN loco either... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Either mod to your railroad (easier with modern diesels and quite popular) or “ignorance is bliss”..... Best, Pete. Martyn, Ah, the irony of of editing a quoted message!!!!! Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 My only BLI purchases (2 cab forwards for video demo/testing) came with one axle wheelset fitted with non-advertized, non-removeable, traction tyres on both chassis sections. Needless to say, I'll never buy any BLI locos ever again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Ironic choice of image, Dash 9s may well be the modern diesel equivalent of the point of this thread - bemoaning lack of standardisation. After all "Everyone" makes a Dash 9. (Well, Athearn, and Kato, and MTH...) But...nobody does one that matches those NS loco's, nobody does one that matches the majority of BNSF loco's either, nobody does one that matches any CN loco either... And that is the same in N. Kato does at least 5 variations of Dash 9, but none of them matches the NS varieties. Similarly, there are a number of ES44 (the successor to the Dash 9) variants from Kato and FVM, but again none exactly matches the NS varieties (although FVM got close with the retool they did to make the NS Heritage units). Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I know. There's been some serious price inflation in N scale in the past few years. When I was really active in the hobby (about 10 years ago), the expensive Microtrains cars were about $17 each. I recently pre-ordered a few Fox Valley H30's from BLW for $18 each. Not sure why the H2s should cost $5 more, considering the H30's look like a more difficult mold to have produced... And if you want a real shock to the wallet, the newly-announced Rapido 37' GATX meat reefers (in N) are listing at $139.80 for a 4-pack or $34.95 each. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 And if you want a real shock to the wallet, the newly-announced Rapido 37' GATX meat reefers (in N) are listing at $139.80 for a 4-pack or $34.95 each. Adrian I was just looking at the Hornby 00 5BEL Brighton belle from Hattons. Unless I've goofed arithmetically, I think that comes out at ~ US$ 500 for a five car set. But Walther's recent Metroliner set , IIRC. costs even more per car. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Boucher Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 And if you want a real shock to the wallet, the newly-announced Rapido 37' GATX meat reefers (in N) are listing at $139.80 for a 4-pack or $34.95 each. Adrian Ouch! That's almost as much as their GMD-1 (non-dcc version). I know which one I would spend my $$ on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Ouch! That's almost as much as their GMD-1 (non-dcc version). I know which one I would spend my $$ on... Yup. The 5BEL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
autocoach Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 There were the Harriman standard common designs for the UP, SP and IC in the early 20th century. These are often overlooked if your focus is east of the Mississippi. Over time with the different appliances and rebuilds including cab modifications they came to look like completely different designs. The Southern Pacific Historical and Technical Society Trainline publication just ran an extensive well illustrated article on the Harriman standard design passenger locomotives of the SP. The SP locomotives before 1905 were originally coal burners but the SP switched to oil in the first decade of the 20th century. Different tenders evolved for oil (SP) and coal (UP, IC). Personally I would love an SP T-28 4-6-0 or C-9 2-8-0 with all the bells and whistles (not sure about the smoke). Once there were the Model Die Casting kits for generic Harriman 4-6-0, 4-4-2 and 2-6-2's. Alas long ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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