E141 / E140 / D109 / C61 / K40 Underframe Dimensions

[6892 Oakhill Grange]

Ladies and Gents

 

I have drawings for K40, D109 and C61 (all from various Russell books).  These all show different lengths over headstocks for these vehicles.  They also show different lengths for the bogie centres.  It also appears from the drawings that the overhangs at each end are different, with the body not central on the underframe.

 

Here are some examples;

 

 

Length over headstocks

Bogie Centres

K40

59’ 10.5”

46’ 6”

D109

59’ 7.5”

46’ 3”

C61

59’ 4.5”

46’ 0”

 

Is this all true?  If it is true, what are the corresponding dimensions for E140 and E141.  In my simple head the off-centre underframe on the D109 is because the van end floor requires more support than the passenger compartment and the K40 is extended both ends for the same reason.  If this is the case; E140 would be like D109 and E141 would be like C61.  Does anybody know if this is all true and what the E140 dimensions would be?

 

I measured my Airfix B-sets and the bogie centres scale to 46’ 9” but the underframe is fiction on that model anyway.

 

Thanks

 

Oakhill

Table did not translate very well from the input screen to the final.

[chrisf]

From some not terribly good drawings I have somewhere - not in Russell! - it is true, and probably another reason why rtr manufacturers fight shy of tackling GWR coaches.  For all that is said of standardisation on the GWR, it did not apply to coaches in Collett's time.  Yours is a plausible theory but I can't substantiate it.

 

Chris

[corneliuslundie]

Are you sure it is not that different drawings have different bogies with varying wheelbases? I seem to remember at least once reading that when bogie types were changed the bogie centres were also changed.

[chrisf]

This is quite a puzzle but I have now found the drawings I have, for D109, E142 and D112.  Each drawing is rubber-stamped "British Railways Board, Chief Mechanical Engineer , [date], Swindon Drawing Office, for J F Harrison".  They show no underframe details.

 

Some dimensions are the same and others are not:

 

The same:

#  length 60 ft 0 in over panels at corners

#  bogie wheelbase 7 ft 0 in

#  distance from headstock to bogie centre 6 ft 8 1/4 in

 

Different:

#  distance from rail level to roof, excluding ventilators 12 ft 6 in D109 and E142, 12 ft 5 in D112.  This is because D112 has the go-anywhere profile and is 8 ft 5 1/2 in over cornices , the others being 8 ft 11 1/4 in

#  length over headstocks 59 ft 4 1/2 in E142, 59 ft 7 1/2 in D109, 59 ft 10 1/2 in D112.

#  bogie centres 46 ft 0 in E142, 46 ft 3 in D109, 46 ft 6 in D112 

#  internal width of compartments: E142 3rd class 6 ft 0 in, 1st class 6 ft 11 1/4 in.  D109 3rd class 6 ft 6 in.  D112 also 6 ft 6 in.

 

Oakhill may be on to something re the uneven mounting of the body on the underframe.  The D109 is shown [sorry, shewn as we are talking GWR] with an overhang at the non-brake end and a slight projection of the headstock at the brake end.  Anyone making a model like that would be roundly condemned!

 

For what it's worth, the D112 and E142 are depicted with equal projections of the end beyond the headstocks.

 

I don't know how much this helps!

 

Chris

[billbedford]

I have a GAs of the D101 & E129 brakes and the overhang of the body over the underframe is explicitly given as 3/4" at the brake end and 3 3/4" at the compartment end.