Railway Motors

[hmrspaul]

A quick generalisation of liveries.

1948 British Railways lettering and the regional suffix latter added to existing colours.

c1948-9 A maroon livery used for some repaints.

c1949 - 1963 Crimson and cream for all vehicles.

c1963 - 66 Yellow with Rail freight lettering for goods and parcels

c1966 Yellow with the double arrow.

c1976 White and blue for Rail Express Parcels (not realy sure when introduced.

 

Engineers vehicles from 1963, green branded BRITISH RAILWAYS until c1966 British Rail with double arrow.

c 1970 yellow replaced the green.

 

Merf.

I thought there was mention of a grey finish. Is 368BXK in this photo http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/stainescentral/e3eba94e4 in BR use, I assumed it was. By the way, I still have not had a definitive answer as to what the trailer was for, which is the main subject of this photograph. In flicking through the recent book on SR road vehicles I didn't notice anything similar.

 

Paul Bartlett

[Merfyn Jones]

I thought there was mention of a grey finish. Is 368BXK in this photo http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/stainescentral/e3eba94e4 in BR use, I assumed it was. By the way, I still have not had a definitive answer as to what the trailer was for, which is the main subject of this photograph. In flicking through the recent book on SR road vehicles I didn't notice anything similar.

 

Paul Bartlett

 

Paul, I had seen your picture of the Bantam at Staines. I think it is probably in the internal shunting livery. NCL certainly carried it on from BR, as I have picture of a Bantam and Seddon artic in the same with NCL branding.

Wonder if the intended grey livery which was short lived, was when the grey for internal use was devised to use up the paint ! It does look the same shade.

Merf.

[The Stationmaster]

Paul, I had seen your picture of the Bantam at Staines. I think it is probably in the internal shunting livery. NCL certainly carried it on from BR, as I have picture of a Bantam and Seddon artic in the same with NCL branding.

Wonder if the intended grey livery which was short lived, was when the grey for internal use was devised to use up the paint ! It does look the same shade.

Merf.

 

There was a Scarab on internal use at Reading in early 1967 that was in a very faded and worn grey colour which (if it had ever had it) had no trace at all of gloss or any markings other than a fleet number. I also remember being told on an internal course in late 1966 that vehicles confined to depot use were painted grey to distinguish them from vehicles which were suitably documented for use on public roads - although that might possibly have been a Western Region practice (or even a London Division arrangement)? The Scarab at Reading might well have been an ex-Ayres unit but I can't recall seeing a trace of any other colour on it where it had been banged and scraped.

[Fat Controller]

I wonder if the grey used for the internal-use vehicles was simply grey cellulose primer, which the workshops would have carried as stock?

[Merfyn Jones]

There was a Scarab on internal use at Reading in early 1967 that was in a very faded and worn grey colour which (if it had ever had it) had no trace at all of gloss or any markings other than a fleet number. I also remember being told on an internal course in late 1966 that vehicles confined to depot use were painted grey to distinguish them from vehicles which were suitably documented for use on public roads - although that might possibly have been a Western Region practice (or even a London Division arrangement)? The Scarab at Reading might well have been an ex-Ayres unit but I can't recall seeing a trace of any other colour on it where it had been banged and scraped.

 

From photos in my collection the use of grey for internal use was nationwide. Some of them seem to have a gloss finish, although one at Sheffield had a matt battleship dark grey with the fleet number on the roof where the totem was. Possibly any old paint.

Merf.

[RussellD]

I came across this Land Rover fire engine today whilst marshaling on the Ipswich to Felixstowe run. It said BR Engineering on the cab door, so does anyone know if it is genuine?

[pitbull1845]

http://www.fire-engine-photos.com/picture/number20033.asp may be of some help.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

[Merfyn Jones]

http://www.fire-engine-photos.com/picture/number20033.asp may be of some help.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

 

I can't add much more except the fleet number was, 0RB 0993F. I also saw it on the ccmv site.

Merf.

[hmrspaul]

From photos in my collection the use of grey for internal use was nationwide. Some of them seem to have a gloss finish, although one at Sheffield had a matt battleship dark grey with the fleet number on the roof where the totem was. Possibly any old paint.

Merf.

Someone recently posted a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js8W-_qkq5Y which is about the development of freight handling in the Sheffield area. In some views grey scammels can be seen moving around a large freight depot.

 

Paul Bartlett

[Merfyn Jones]

Someone recently posted a link which is about the development of freight handling in the Sheffield area. In some views grey scammels can be seen moving around a large freight depot.

 

Paul Bartlett

 

 

Yes Paul, that's the one with the dark grey Scarab along with many in the grey which looks the same as the experimental grey. The colour rendition of both the grey and yellow looks accurate to my memory.

Some more finds from flickr over the weekend.

 

A Jarvis Ford Transit at Healey Mills, showing the sort of thing that replaced the personnel carriers from 1996 when B R ceased to exist and the maintainence went over to contractors, until 2004 when Network Rail took it back in house.

 

A Karrier Gamecock S&T bus from the 60s, in the green livery. The only colour shot I've seen of this livery. These were replaced by the Bedford TKs.

 

A late Leyland FG personnel carrier at Reddish shed.

 

A Leyland Terrier P Way bus of the type used by welders. After sale from B R, in Edinburgh.

 

Two Scarabs at Billingsgate, one of which has the distinctive Southern Region trailer with the tall gantry .

 

Five Scarabs at Billingsgate with the left hand one having the Eastern Region, timber Temple Mills cab.

 

Merf.

[hmrspaul]

Yes Paul, that's the one with the dark grey Scarab along with many in the grey which looks the same as the experimental grey. The colour rendition of both the grey and yellow looks accurate to my memory.

Some more finds from flickr over the weekend.

 

 

Merf.

Merf

 

I feel quite embarrassed, Not for not taking much on film, but now electronic recording is basically free I have had ample opportunity to record the fleets of the last few years. I walk past fleets of Jarvis/Network Rail etc. vehicles on my walk into York town!

 

Paul Bartlett

[jcb 3c]

Good flickr finds Merf , looks like you've been putting some time in on the interweb

Paul 'Today is tommorows history'

I ‘ve started taking pics of British trucks I see for this very reason , This is probably the last decade when working British trucks are still a common sight . Now we have no manufacturers . Fodens , ERF ‘s, Leyland Dafs and the odd pure Leyland on the road now but they’re thinning out fast.

[Classsix T]

Good flickr finds Merf , looks like you've been putting some time in on the interweb

Paul 'Today is tommorows history'

I ‘ve started taking pics of British trucks I see for this very reason , This is probably the last decade when working British trucks are still a common sight . Now we have no manufacturers . Fodens , ERF ‘s, Leyland Dafs and the odd pure Leyland on the road now but they’re thinning out fast.

The sole reason I look forward to the fairground coming to town these days is that British trucks still seem to be the prime movers. Unfortunately as the travelling folk renew their vehicles with newer ex fleet lorries, the likes of Seddon, Leyland, Guy and ERF seem to be on the wane.

 

C6T.

[Merfyn Jones]

An exciting find for me, was this Morris J van on Flickr. At Swindon in 1968, it is the only decent shot of a Morris J that I have ever seen in any B R livery. Registered Oct.1958, I had not realised they were still made after the introduction of the J2. And a surprise to see it lasting until 1968 having aquired the 1963 style green livery.

I have only ever come across one J van before , also a W R machine in red and cream.

[jcb 3c]

Nice find the J van , I wonder if pic is slightly earlier than 1968 .

 

some more finds-distant sadly and scroll down for some-

 

Leyland dropside/hiab at Doncaster

 

http://www.2d53.co.uk/Class%2024s/Departmentals.htm

 

- FG s and TK s with Freightliner container and others at Bangor

 

http://www.2d53.co.uk/bangor/freight.htm

 

 

 

http://www.2d53.co.uk/bangor/The%20Yard.htm

[PhilJ W]

An exciting find for me, was this Morris J van on Flickr. At Swindon in 1968, it is the only decent shot of a Morris J that I have ever seen in any B R livery. Registered Oct.1958, I had not realised they were still made after the introduction of the J2. And a surprise to see it lasting until 1968 having aquired the 1963 style green livery.

I have only ever come across one J van before , also a W R machine in red and cream.

http://www.flickr.co...cal/4147227394/

The registration was issued in 1958. The van was already 10 years old. It would be one of the last J types made.

[The Stationmaster]

Nice find the J van , I wonder if pic is slightly earlier than 1968 .

 

 

The Triumph Herald 1200 on the opposite side of the road appears to have a suffix letter registration and it looks to me like an 'F' (1967-68) suffix.

[Pyewipe Jct]

The Triumph Herald 1200 on the opposite side of the road appears to have a suffix letter registration and it looks to me like an 'F' (1967-68) suffix.

 

Hi, as Mike says, if you view the photo at its original size, the Herald reg. shows up very clearly to be JWV 255F, so I'd say that the 1968 date is very likely to be correct.

 

 

Kevin

[Merfyn Jones]

Not much new to report on flickr, but this Morris Marina high top van that we discussed earlier. At Preston along with a Bedford CFL van and Dodge 22 seat relayers bus.

I don't have the registration for the Preston Marina, but similar vehicles were NRB976/7W, ORR349/55/8/9/68/9/70/2W, some of which were in that area.

Merf.

 

[bubbles2]

Leyland FG at Castle Cary. http://www.flickr.com/photos/8495744@N06/5367613160/in/pool-1329277@N22

[Merfyn Jones]

Leyland FG at Castle Cary. http://www.flickr.com/photos/8495744@N06/5367613160/in/pool-1329277@N22

 

 

Nice find bubbles,

one of the 22 seat relaying gang buses, mostly built around 1975 and the last FGs for BR.

Merf.

[Pyewipe Jct]

Nice find bubbles,

one of the 22 seat relaying gang buses, mostly built around 1975 and the last FGs for BR.

Merf.

 

Is that a Commer van or minibus lurking behind it, too?

[Merfyn Jones]

Is that a Commer van or minibus lurking behind it, too?

 

 

Looks like a Commer PB minibus (I think I see a side window) with what looks like a piece of cardboard over the radiator grille, to make the heater work. This makes it hard to tell, if it is one of the later models with the plastic grille area.

Merf

[jcb 3c]

Some sightings -

 

 

 

Commer rail express vans and Class 03 at Lowestoft

 

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2312569

 

 

CF and ? artic at Portobello

 

 

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=5936

 

TK at Thurso

 

 

 

 

 

Busy goods yard Maldon 1958 Bedfords and Scammells and one of them little Hyster mobile cranes

 

 

 

Leyland Cub staff bus Margam 1987

 

 

Distant NCL Ford D at Penzance

 

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1215918

[Merfyn Jones]

A few more flickr finds, one of them a mystery.

 

Firstly a shot round the back of Birkenhead Hamilton Square station, with a Commer PB minibus, a FG crew bus, a Terrier or Dodge crew bus, a Dodge relayers bus and a Transit minibus (looks like a GAL-V reg of 1979)

 

 

Doncaster 1978 by Brian Daniels, with 2 Commer PB minibuses, a TK dropside, 2 FG crew buses and a Terrier. This yard often features in Deltic etc pictures with an interesting collection in the background.

 

 

London 1954 near the Monument (Billingsgate ?) On the left a LMR Scarab (LAR reg) and on the right 2 mechanical horses, the nearest BGY312, HD 6870 E with a similar one behind.

 

 

A Freight Rover Sherpa with a high roof conversion, the best view I have seen of one.

 

 

Dated August 1965 at Prestatyn carnival. What is this ?????.

Still red and cream so pre 1963. Trailer repainted yellow. Fleet number begins with 71## so that would have been issued in c1965. So must have been a transfer from another region ! Doors hinged at the rear, so not a Scammell or Bantam. Aluminium beading from gutter round the cab back. It's really got me guessing, anybody help please.

 

Woops ! link missing . SEE BELOW

A Townsman in London with the St. Pancras based trailer in the Inter Station parcels livery.

 

 

Merf.

 

 

p s Should we move to the Road Vehicle groups section ?