Virney Junction - Scenery ongoing

[Brian D]

Hi Ray,

I am a firm believer in making mockups and they are fun to build too! (he said reaching for the corrugated cardboard and the hot glue gun again)

Seriously, it's looking good Ray.

Regards,

Brian.

[Richard Mawer]

Hi Ray,

 

This is looking very good. I feel its a big step up from Wynsloe Road.

 

Have you given up on the Ready Grass completely? I was hoping this was going to be the answer to my prayers.

 

I know it will offend many on here but I want to get the big scenery on Buckingham West out of the way very quickly. Its not my forte and fiddling around with plaited strips of card, modroc, plaster everywhere or weeks of papier mache just doesn't appeal. I'm going to have to bear the ordeal of ballasting and track weathering. After that, to have to face scenery will finish me off.

 

Any other ideas of how to do acrea of scenery quicly and cheaply?

 

Keep up the good work. Inspiring stuff.

[Ray H]

Brian

 

Thanks for the comments. I think I'll be doing a bit more mucking about with mock ups elsewhere on the layout as they may be the nearest the layout gets to having any buildings for a while.

 

Richard

 

Thanks to you as well. I'm like you and don't relish the scenery so I'm not sure why I decided on a rural layout that does a reasonable job of filling a large part of the garage!

 

As I said to Jock earlier, it is probably my ham-fisted way of tackling the scenery that caused the problems that I experienced with the mat.

 

There are paper/card based mats that might work but I've come to the conclusion that you can't simply leave the mat as is on the layout. It will need enhancement to give some colour variation at least and once you get to that stage it doesn't seem too much extra work to put the initial covering coat down.

 

The ground cover still needs a form underneath to support it - although I think Larry managed his with just crumpled newspaper before putting the vinyl mat down. I had to resort to the cardboard strips on the board where I dropped the ground below track level. I've used one or more layers of 10mm thick expanded polystyrene everywhere else at present although I shall enhance that to try and avoid the ground being billiard table flat all around the layout.

 

I found the (white) expanded polystyrene only slightly more messy than the (pink) extruded polystyrene. The wall insulation material might be even less messy although I don't think it comes in thicknesses below 25mm

 

 

The picture above shows the last large area of the layout that won't be just railway - that's the far section with the "weights" on. It is two layers of the aforementioned polystyrene. The edge facing the camera is what one might laughingly call vertical. I want to add a little bit of variation to the top surface in places and have a slightly steeper chamfer to drop down to track level than the gradual slope on the opposite side of the railway.

 

I'm thinking that I might adjust the top surface using strips of newspaper pasted one above the other (and getting narrower as the height goes up) to give the variation on the top. I suspect the front edge will be modified using card or similar formers stuck vertically in front of the polystyrene with the spaces in-filled with more paper and then squares of paper stuck over the top patchwork style. The whole area will then be covered in plaster cloth - like all the other scenic areas. This will be firmer than the polystyrene and (he says hopefully) will make it easier to adjust to implant buildings and the like where I decide I want a little less grass.

 

I've no idea if any of this will work and what it will look like if it does but I hope it gives you an idea. I think you're right to tackle the basics of the large scenic sections first although I'd limit that in places where you may subsequently be leaning over the layout.

[Ray H]

 

I'm going through tissue (boxes) like mad at present! The base level of foam was too wide on the outside of the curve - the cess would have been multiples of several feet wide as a result. Alas I didn't think about this when I was cutting the polystyrene to size and was left with a gap of upwards of 50mm in places between the front face of the polystyrene and the revised edge of the foam once I'd cut the excess away.

 

I glued some thick pieces of plastic to the baseboard between foam and polystyrene and cover the exposed area with thin cardboard taken from tissue boxes. The card (and rest of the polystyrene) will be covered in plaster impregnated cloth in due course.

 

 

Meanwhile a colleague of mine has (very) kindly been weathering not only the ten recently obtained pristine Bachmann vans but a few others besides. Alas the image doesn't do the justice to them that I think they deserve.

 

 

Talking of vans - all good vans need a goods shed and I knocked up something rough yesterday evening using the dimensions of the Scalescene shed. I also added an external platform outside and learnt that there doesn't seem to be enough space to accommodate a crane thereon - something that I'd always planned to do.

 

 

And finally . . . .I'm beginning to get the bug for these cardboard mock-ups. I had thought about creating the basic platform shape at the main station but turned my attention to the station's warehouse building instead. It's not based on anything/anywhere specific, I just dreamt up a size  (30cms long) and cobbled something together. My original thinking was that the building would probably only be big enough to accommodate two vehicles at its unloading platform. The mock-up has shown that three can fit comfortably and it wouldn't take much to accommodate a fourth.

 

One benefit of the larger size (and the fact that the factory at the smaller station will be "owned" by the same company) is that I have even more scope to have one or two wagons that do nothing but ply between the two buildings on a daily basis.

[Andrew P]

Looking very good Ray, the mock up building are spot on.

[Ray H]

I've managed to source a number of pieces of something similar to plasticard and have used it for the platform walls at the larger station.

 

I cut several strips 6mm deeper than the printed wall (to allow for the depth of the foam under the track) and hot glued the strips in place on the baseboard having previously glued printed Scalescenes platform wall extracts on the outside.

 

I'd previously trimmed the foam back to leave a relatively straight edge to butt the platform wall against but the white of the plastic strip (below the printed wall) was still visible in some places.

 

I didn't see this as a problem! I filled the voids with some extra ballast and happily flowed nay flooded some dilute PVA over the ballast to stick it down. It didn't take too long for a tide mark to appear on the printed wall sections. I was annoyed at my own stupidity but was hopeful that I might be able to rescue the situation with a bit of weathering. However, by the following day the damage was millions of times worse and no amount of weathering would have corrected that. I had no option but to replace the printed brickwork.

 

This was easier said than done. The glue pen that I'd initially used to stick the paper to the plastic wasn't too effective so removing the paper didn't take many seconds. I'd previously cut several more strips of brickwork so I applied some diluted PVA to the face of the plastic in preparation for sticking the new paper in place. Alas the glue brush disturbed odd bits of ballast which ended up where it wasn't wanted. Equally, despite trying to slide the paper down the (vertical) plastic, it still wouldn't settle properly and I'm now left with areas where the ballast is closer to the plastic than the paper.

 

I don't think that I have any option but to remove the plastic and hope that I don't disturb too much ballast in the process. I shall then remove the printed wall sections so that I can clean any ballast off, stick some new wall sections onto the plastic. This time I shall waft some acrylic matt varnish over the paper before I stick it back in place just in case I need to top up the ballast again.

 

It is a good job the platform wall facing the bay platform track also faces the wall of the garage and cannot be seen because I haven't had to worry about adding the printed wall to it!

[Anotheran]

Ray,

 

Sorry to hear about your difficulties with getting the platform in. I've not yet tried this, but a technique that I've seen somewhere on this site,and plan to use for my removable buildings, may help in your situation...

 

Build the building/platform as removable. Cover with a thin (so cheap) cooking foil and smear the tiniest drop of oil over it. Place the building in it's correct site and ballast up to it. Once the ballast is set the building should come out easily and undamaged by the water. Once out the foil can be removed and the building put back (and glued in if it doesn't need to be removable).

 

As I said... it sounded good when I read it, but I've not actually tried it yet!

 

Hopefully you're sorted now on this platform, but if you have other items that could suffer the same fate then maybe this would help.

 

Kine regards, Neil

[Ray H]

Many thanks for the suggestion Neil. I was thinking along similar lines. My wife is more of a hoarder than me and keeps the waxed paper from cereal packets for use when cooking. I did wonder whether I could use this instead of your foil/oil combination.

 

Perhaps now is the time to get both waxed paper and foil out and dribble some diluted PVA onto them and see what has happened in the morning.

[Ray H]

Waxed paper, foil and greaseproof paper all worked when given even the slightest coat of oil.

 

I have managed to free the plastic strip from the glue that was securing it to the baseboard but know I that some of the ballast also came away so it is even more necessary to add some extra ballast.

 

I had been toying with the idea of covering the whole depth of the plastic strip with the printed paper so no white is visible but I suspect there is then a risk of any paper touching the baseboard acting like blotting paper and repeating the earlier damage.

 

I've now used a (wet) glue stick and dilute PVA to attempt to secure the printed brick paper to the plastic strip. In one sense I'm glad that the bond was weak enough to facilitate (very) easy removal of the paper when I wanted to but I'm equally dismayed that the paper doesn't seem to have stuck too well.

[Brian D]

Waxed paper, foil and greaseproof paper all worked when given even the slightest coat of oil.

 

I have managed to free the plastic strip from the glue that was securing it to the baseboard but know I that some of the ballast also came away so it is even more necessary to add some extra ballast.

 

I had been toying with the idea of covering the whole depth of the plastic strip with the printed paper so no white is visible but I suspect there is then a risk of any paper touching the baseboard acting like blotting paper and repeating the earlier damage.

 

I've now used a (wet) glue stick and dilute PVA to attempt to secure the printed brick paper to the plastic strip. In one sense I'm glad that the bond was weak enough to facilitate (very) easy removal of the paper when I wanted to but I'm equally dismayed that the paper doesn't seem to have stuck too well.

 

Hi Ray,

Sorry to hear about your problems with "rising damp" so to speak.  I too used Scalescenes textures for my platform faces but stuck them to 2mm grey board with glue stick.  My track/ballast glue though is neat PVA.  However, I have a couple of suggestions you may like to try.

1. On my previous layout I used Metcalfe platforms and the same dilute PVA ballast glue method you appear to be using and these card brick papers were unaffected by the dilute PVA.  Their brick "papers" may be worth a try at http://www.metcalfemodels.com/building-materials
2. I have obtained some A4 self adhesive labels quite cheeply on the internet at http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A4-Address-Labels-Self-Adhesive-Sticky-Sheets-Inkjet-Copier-Laser-Printer-Peel-/171380889564?var=&hash=item0. These labels print well and adhere formidably to plastic.  Being intended for postal use I imagine they may have some resistance to moisture.  May be worth a try.

Regards,

Brian.

[Ray H]

Thanks Brian.

 

I'll give Neil's idea a try first as I already have the remains of the printed paper from earlier. I've used latex everywhere else for the ballast - I'm using SMP track with thin sleepers so can get away with that. I also realised that the PVA I was using last time had been diluted but lacked the proverbial drop of washing up liquid that might have stopped me flooding the area so much originally in order to cover the nearly scattered extra ballast.

 

I'm also tempted to temporarily fit the unclothed plastic strip in place protected as Neil suggests, add and secure the ballast and then remove the strip again, fix the paper to it and then adhere that to the layout.

 

I'd hope to report back by the weekend if I can get through this pile of Xmas cards that I still have to send - not to mention finding time to get out to buy one for SWMBO!

[Ray H]

The platform wall face is sorted. Neil's greased foil idea worked a treat. I tried one section of wall first and then finished it off once I was happy the idea worked. Grateful thanks to Neil for baling me out of that problem.

 

Elsewhere I finally found time to cover all the expanded polystyrene (plus the plaster bandage that I'd previously painted green) with one skin of plaster impregnated cloth, running out on Boxing Day in need of just a couple of feet to finish!

 

I've since given all but the area adjacent to the unfinished section a coat of brown emulsion paint.

 

 

The area top left in the image above had previously been painted with green acrylic and had had a further layer of plaster cloth laid over it prior to the brown paint arriving.

 

 

The unpainted section is where I ran out of plaster cloth - just behind the NCE throttle. The smaller of the two clocks was made as a school project by my daughter nearly 20 years ago. The larger clock is (my) railway time. It is a conventional clock that runs at normal speed. However, it has had a switch fitted - just visible below the VI on the dial - that allows us to stop time if the timetable gets delayed. The idea is that we'll set the clock to (just after) midnight and start it. The timetable represents a 24 hour day captured in 3 hours (although there are no trains between about 01.00 & 05.00). We can then run as much of the timetable as we want and when we need to cease we stop the clock and leave everything where it is. We can then pick-up from where we left off the next time simply by re-starting the clock.

 

We had the first run through of the timetable yesterday and managed to finish within 10 minutes of time despite a points failure (that I sorted afterwards). We learnt that despite there being a minimum of 15 minutes of real time to shunt each freight train, we were still struggling to do so because of all the other trains that the timetable included in that time - 15 minutes of real time is 2 hours in the timetable.

 

I'm now planning to throw in some extra time when there are no other train movements scheduled at the station where the shunting occurs. This will extend the train movements period to 3 (real) hours. This is convenient because it means that I can produce four versions of the timetable, each three hours later than the previous one. They're run in sequence and saves the clock having to be reset at the end of each session.

[Ray H]

This is my first attempt at "series flockin"! Come to think of it, this is my first attempt at anything that could be described as adding flock powders to a layout. I took the smallest area albeit even that was quite large - there isn't a self contained smaller area. I painted some diluted PVA onto the brown emulsion and tried to give the area a good coat of one shade of green without absolutely drowning it in the single colour. I then went over it immediately with a different shade of green and then some earth colour in the hope that the PVA was still wet enough for the flock to adhere to.

 

 

As impatient as ever, about an hour later I went over the whole area with a handheld vac - the boards are too big to turn over and rattle over newspaper - and this is the result.

 

 

I don't know whether the glue wasn't thick/wet enough, whether I was too impatient or whether this is the result that I should expect from the first layer. What I don't know is what to do now. Can I brush on another layer of PVA to the same strength (or stronger) without fear of disturbing what's already down or do I find some means to spray it on? Alternately do I cover small areas at a time with unscented hairspray and rattle the flock over it again or are there other options?

 

Finally, we identified a "problem" during our run through of the timetable yesterday. We drive trains towards our respective operating position and as such need to know from the other operator(s) what the (DCC) "Loco" number of the loco (or DMU) we're about to drive is. Yesterday we were telling each other but it would be useful to have that information somewhere you can refer to if you're otherwise engaged when the information becomes available.

 

We talked through a couple of ideas and this wasn't one of them (in its entirety).

 

 

Our discussions centred around having some hooks or similar on the wall where we could hang a card with the relevant "Loco" number on. We may still do that but it'll take a little time to arrange suitable hard wearing cards. In the meantime I printed the numbers of the Locos currently in use onto some approximately A7 cards and knocked up some rough and ready card brackets to hold them - I'm still wondering where I can store the cards for the rest of the active Locos when not required (both short & long term). We've identified that we want to mark those Locos that are sound equipped and these trials will allow us time to see if there's any other information that we want to include on the cards. Loco 47483 is out of shot in case anyone thinks that I have the number of the loco wrong.

[john flann]

Ray, a lot of progress there since I last looked in and which I'm sure you are basically pleased with, but I shall nor comment on any of what's been going on in particular.

 

Except to say I noticed you had remarked upon your flocking methods, and may I suggest you have a look at my Hintock post #1193 as I've been doing a bit in that line myself.

Edited December 29, 2015 by john flann

[jcarta]

All this emulsioning that you are doing .... is this in practice for decorating the spare rooms!!!!!! The domestic goddess will be pleased with your efforts.......

[Ray H]

All this emulsioning that you are doing .... is this in practice for decorating the spare rooms!!!!!! The domestic goddess will be pleased with your efforts.......

 

You're probably right there. At least I'm putting off the evil day - a major re-organisation of the upper floor of the house consequent upon moving the railway stuff to the garage - by taking things slowly on the layout!

[Ray H]

Ray, a lot of progress there since I last looked in and which I'm sure you are basically pleased with, but I shall nor comment on any of what's been going on in particular.

 

Except to say I noticed you had remarked upon your flocking methods, and may I suggest you have a look at my Hintock post #1193 as I've been doing a bit in that line myself.

 

Thanks John

 

I was concerned that spreading further glue a top what is already down would disturb the previous layers. I've just run my finger quite forcibly over what is already there and hardly disturbed any of it so I'll try my luck with a brush again as it seems a bit easier to define the target in a limited area whereas a spray suggests to me that its coverage will extend beyond the area being dealt with.

[cromptonnut]

I've got a similar space to use and I just cannot seem to get what I want to work, although it's not that dissimilar from what you have created.  Can I ask what your minimum mainline curve is please?  I've been trying to stick to 30" radius.

[Ray H]

I've got a similar space to use and I just cannot seem to get what I want to work, although it's not that dissimilar from what you have created.  Can I ask what your minimum mainline curve is please?  I've been trying to stick to 30" radius.

 

Ignoring the extension beyond what was originally going to be a terminus, the minimum radius on a running line is 39 inches. The minimum radius on the extension is (alas) 20.5 inches. I could have eased it to 24" (and possibly more) had it been part of the original plan.

 

(The extension is behind the cameraman in post 287).

[john flann]

OK Ray, but if you are using white glue after wetting it all bonds back together again.

[Ray H]

OK Ray, but if you are using white glue after wetting it all bonds back together again.

 

John

 

Thanks.

 

What roll does your pre-wetting play? Is it instead of diluting the glue?

 

I was concerned that the flock would get tangled in the brush if it came loose.

[john flann]

Ray, pre-wetting by way of spray ensures that the liberal coat of paint and glue will spread nicely in the first place and are sticky so the flock and other materials sprinkled upon will readily  adhere.

 

A brush plays no part in this latter stage. But the spray bottle does.

 

It all looks a bit of a mess but in 24 hours when drying out it will look a lot better. Then, if needed,  the process can start again but without the paint, thats just a base coat. It can't be done in one go, it's a continuing process to get the result seen in my post # 1193.

 

And, I've taken the lliberty of attaching, from that post of mine, an image showing the finished result.

 

 

It all takes time, it's a bit messy  and better done in small areas at a time. If you don't like the result add another layer of scenic stuff.

 

Hope this helps.

[Ray H]

Thanks John

 

I'll give it a try.

 

Happy New Year to you and yours and everyone else who pops in to read what I've been up to.

 

I'm currently installing one of two NCE mini-panels with some associated temporary switches to control the points, most of which work as crossover pairs so take a while to operate using accessory addresses through the throttle. I plan to replace the switches with lever frames in due course, ready for when the signals (get built and) go in.

[john flann]

Ray, I hope it works for you. The trick is in using absorbent kitchen paper towel at the bottom as it retains the first layer(s) of sprayed water, sticky paint and white glue. That is your foundation for what you add on top.

[Ray H]

 

There has been some progress in recent days.

 

The amount of green is slowly spreading and a further area (not seen in the above image) was attacked this evening.

 

A start has also been made on the platform for the smaller station.

 

The first attempt at the rail side platform wall failed when the greased foil - which was added after the wall was put in place - didn't keep all the water out and caused the ink on the printed paper to run slightly. That was my fault because I forgot to give the printed brick papers a couple of coats of matt acrylic varnish before I started watering the ballast.

 

I discovered earlier this evening that the second attempt with greased foil being positioned before the replacement wall was put in place has also failed despite the acrylic varnish being remembered this time. This failure was even more dramatic that the earlier problem. I shall wait for the glue holding the ballast to dry and replace the wall again. I shan't remove the fail until after and hope that the ballast will stay in place.

 

Keen eyed viewers may note the craft knife slightly right of bottom centre. Immediately to the left of that are five DPDT switches that I've installed to operate the points until such time as I get round to building the requisite lever frame(s). The switches are connected to an NCE mini panel and that in turn is connected to the accessory bus. Operation of a switch grounds one of the inputs on the mini panel and that causes the appropriate instructions to be issued to the relevant decoder to change the point. Unfortunately we've only just discovered that the mini panel is designed to work with push buttons or passing contact switches. Equally, each point or signal requires the use of two inputs if each is worked by a dedicated switch (or push button).

 

There are 30 inputs on the mini panel which provides enough for 15 points or signals. Both stations will require just over that number by the time the signals are added.

 

 

Continuing the trend of hopping from this to that to keep the interest alive I have been experimenting with shortening Bachmann couplings on the three wagons in the foreground. The NEM sockets have been shortened by 2 or 3mm and the same treatment given to the couplings themselves. The couplings are then glued into the socket with a small amount of super-glue. I've tried the three wagons in the picture on the third radius curve on the extension and they didn't derail. I wish some enterprising person with the appropriate facilities would market the shortened version of the couplings otherwise I have about 80 wagons to tackle, not to mention a couple of dozen locos!

 

I've also tweaked the timetable by adding five minute "rest" periods at the appropriate times to provide an opportunity to shunt the freight trains as our first run through of the timetable revealed a problem in this area not helped by the need to change all the points via the throttles. Hopefully the new switches will further ease that problem.