Henley-on-Thames - GWR in the 1930's

[Neal Ball]

7 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Neal - the wheels in the 2225 pic above are standard Churchward small-boss 6'8", although with a 15" crank throw of course. The markings on the front of the tyres are oil stain patterns. (I'll try to find a better illustration.)

 

That said, the transition to large boss wheels was inconsistent. Here's 2225 again, in early state, with a mixture of small and large boss drivers. Some locos might have even received Collett wheels late in their lives, but I doubt that.

 

Balance weights changed over time, you want the later style, which looked like the ones on the later large Prairies.

 

I can't see why the tank construction should be any different to the contemporaneous Prairies, so I'm fairly confident the balancing pipe goes straight up to the bottom of the main tank. The Templer drawing in Russell (which I had forgotten about - doh!) seems accurate.

 

Lovely photo thank you Miss Prism.

 

I hadn’t realised that about the wheels, thank you…. Most odd!

 

Re: Balance weights - I will need to check the kit then…. Bearing in mind the etched chassis kit is for the County 4-4-0 tender loco, so I might need to compromise.

 

I note too that 2225 still has bogie brake wheels, these aren’t included in the kit, but I think there are small brake shoes in the Wizard range. Loco no 2237 had bogie brakes (possibly) until the end.

 

Agreed about the main tanks extending into the cabs, logic would dictate they went back that far, otherwise it becomes unnecessarily complicated for the balancing pipes.

 

Looking at 2225 again - that safety valve cover looks odd - if you saw that on a model, you would say it’s wrong! - it’s leaning forward! There’s a prototype for everything.

[Miss Prism]

27 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

I note too that 2225 still has bogie brake wheels, these aren’t included in the kit, but I think there are small brake shoes in the Wizard range. Loco no 2237 had bogie brakes (possibly) until the end.

 

Bogie brakes had I think disappeared by 1924
 

[Neal Ball]

32 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Bogie brakes had I think disappeared by 1924
 

 

Thanks very much, I won't worry about them then! 

[Neal Ball]

County tank loco update:

 

I have just posted the following onto my loco blog page.

 

Issues:

1. In folding up the cylinder block to go onto the frames, the instructions say don't solder - why? It's all held together with slots in the frames that then slot into the cylinder block. The sliderbar supports, also slot into slots in the frames - likewise surely they should be soldered.... The last section supports the vacuum pump and is always falling off! - so that is definitely going to be soldered. 

 

Any suggestions would be welcome. Maybe don't solder while everything is being set up, but surely it all needs to be soldered together before the loco is run?

 

Thanks,

[Nick Gough]

On 01/01/2024 at 18:22, Mikkel said:

Hi Neal,

 

Not your period I know, but I wonder if you've seen this photo before from the "London end" of the Regatta trains (is it a Saint though, not 100% sure):

 

 

Caption: Great Western Railway official photograph showing crowds on platforms 4 and 5, waiting for the train to take them to the Henley rowing regatta. A Saint class 4-6-0 steam locomotive waits alongside platform 5 with a special train. Source: Getty Images, embedding permitted.

 

 

I believe this locomotive is actually a 'Star', probably one of the Knight series.

 

Although the watermark masks a lot of detail, I can just make out the rear of the outside cylinder, just in front of the leading driving wheel, together with the slidebars, which extend back over the whole of that wheel. The 'Saint' cylinders and slidebars are mounted further forward.

 

The nameplate appears to have a long name consisting of two longer words, in larger letters (KNIGHT...?), separated by at least one smaller word in small letters (of the/of ST.?)

 

Looking to the front of the locomotive, there appears to be a box structure extending forward from the drop curve of the footplating, under the smokebox - the cover for the inside cylinders.

 

Finally, there appears to be a longitudinal handrail mounted on the front footplating, adjacent to the smokebox. This would normally indicate the presence of footsteps beneath, and there does appear to be something like that, descending below the valance, into the watermark.

 

A quick look through my books and I couldn't find any photos of Churchward express engines with front footsteps (other than Ursa Major - clearly not that). Indeed, if this was a 'Saint', footsteps here would conflict with the position of the cylinder.

 

However, RCTS - Locomotives of the GWR - Part 8, has the answer;

"Nos 4011-6/8 carried front footsteps for a short time"

together with a photo:

 

The 'Knights' were built in March - May 1908, so I think we see one of these locomotives not long after its entry into traffic. 4011/3/5/6 were first allocated to Old Oak Common - so perhaps one of these?

 

[John Besley]

12 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Bogie brakes had I think disappeared by 1924
 

Just out of interest why was that?

[Miss Prism]

Just now, John Besley said:

Just out of interest why was that?

 

They were difficult to adjust, and, apparently, not regarded as especially effective as brakes.

 

[Neal Ball]

4 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

 

I believe this locomotive is actually a 'Star', probably one of the Knight series.

 

Although the watermark masks a lot of detail, I can just make out the rear of the outside cylinder, just in front of the leading driving wheel, together with the slidebars, which extend back over the whole of that wheel. The 'Saint' cylinders and slidebars are mounted further forward.

 

The nameplate appears to have a long name consisting of two longer words, in larger letters (KNIGHT...?), separated by at least one smaller word in small letters (of the/of ST.?)

 

Looking to the front of the locomotive, there appears to be a box structure extending forward from the drop curve of the footplating, under the smokebox - the cover for the inside cylinders.

 

Finally, there appears to be a longitudinal handrail mounted on the front footplating, adjacent to the smokebox. This would normally indicate the presence of footsteps beneath, and there does appear to be something like that, descending below the valance, into the watermark.

 

A quick look through my books and I couldn't find any photos of Churchward express engines with front footsteps (other than Ursa Major - clearly not that). Indeed, if this was a 'Saint', footsteps here would conflict with the position of the cylinder.

 

However, RCTS - Locomotives of the GWR - Part 8, has the answer;

"Nos 4011-6/8 carried front footsteps for a short time"

together with a photo:

 

The 'Knights' were built in March - May 1908, so I think we see one of these locomotives not long after its entry into traffic. 4011/3/5/6 were first allocated to Old Oak Common - so perhaps one of these?

 

Great detective work thanks Nick.

 

2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

They were difficult to adjust, and, apparently, not regarded as especially effective as brakes.

 

 

Was there also an issue about the bogie brakes binding - as making them non effective? Or am I thinking of something else?

[Coach bogie]

14 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

County tank loco update:

 

I have just posted the following onto my loco blog page.

 

Issues:

1. In folding up the cylinder block to go onto the frames, the instructions say don't solder - why? It's all held together with slots in the frames that then slot into the cylinder block. The sliderbar supports, also slot into slots in the frames - likewise surely they should be soldered.... The last section supports the vacuum pump and is always falling off! - so that is definitely going to be soldered. 

 

Any suggestions would be welcome. Maybe don't solder while everything is being set up, but surely it all needs to be soldered together before the loco is run?

 

Thanks,

The Comet cylinders are usually for a 6 coupled chassis. Soldering the cylinders to the frames would have difficulty fitting/removing the front drivers. This is not an issue on the County tank as there are no drivers behind the cylinders.

 

My theory anyway

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Coach bogie]

16 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

 

Thanks very much, I won't worry about them then! 

Just going through the photos and I cannot find any Counties with bogie brakes after the mid 20's. my 2221 does not have them based on a reliable 1925 image.

 

Just looking at a 1934 image of 2225 and it has no bogie brakes.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited January 3 by Coach bogie

[Neal Ball]

5 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

Just going through the photos and I cannot find any Counties with bogie brakes after the mid 20's. my 2221 does not have them based on a reliable 1925 image.

 

Just looking at a 1934 image of 2225 and it has no bogie brakes.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Thanks for the comments Mike.

 

The photo I have of 2237 was from the mid 1920’s, obviously the bogie brakes were taken off later.

 

One less job to do!

 

Thanks, Neal.

[Miss Prism]

11 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Was there also an issue about the bogie brakes binding - as making them non effective? Or am I thinking of something else?

 

I'm not aware of that in connection with the County tanks, but it could be related to the adjustment problem. Other classes were involved of course (Castles, Stars, Saints, anything with a front bogie), so I guess it was Collett who ordered them all off.

[Neal Ball]

Saturday 6th Jan - a productive morning!

 

The remaining Christmas decorations have come down, including the Henley-on-Thames Christmas tree.

 

Normality has returned! I suspect we might be hearing and seeing a lot of Pannier tank 0-6-0 locos this year…..

 

 

The signalman is thankful that the tree has gone - he has got his lights working again 😎

 

However, it reminds me that I don’t actually have a signalman in the box! I bought one in 2022 when we were at Didcot, but unfortunately lost him before we got home. I’m thinking of ordering the crew and passengers for the incoming Steam Railmotor, I will have to add the signalman into the order.

 

Talking of Modelu products, my drunken sailer (at last) has a pin in his leg so he can stand up!

 

 

(A pin has been drilled and glued into his leg, which I can insert into the ground), before this, he drunkenly leaned against the wall of the Vidler Arms.

 

Pannier loco in Platform 2:

 

In other news, the County 4-4-2T has had its motor changed round so it sits better between the two sets of wheels, the worm has been glued on and the motor tested for the first time.

 

[Mikkel]

On 30/12/2023 at 17:32, Neal Ball said:

Work has continued with the County 4-4-2T loco - its a bit slow, but its getting there.

 

 

I have just updated the blog page: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/blogs/entry/26198-county-loco-build-4-4-2t/  

 

To be continued...

 

Happy New Year everyone.

 

Hi Neal, this seems to have disappeared from the blogs, but maybe it is deliberate?

[Neal Ball]

31 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

 

Hi Neal, this seems to have disappeared from the blogs, but maybe it is deliberate?

It’s back! 
 

Im working on two blogs at the same time - I have set up a blog for my Worsley works carriage and that has stayed hidden until I start on the carriage. I need to finish the loco first!

[Neal Ball]

Work continued on the County tank loco this afternoon.

 

There is some filler needed, but I am making progress with the body detailing items:

 

 

The blog page for the loco build has another couple of photos.

 

Next - I need to do the handrail round the smokebox - wish me luck!

 

I need to find that video again, where Tony Wright makes it look so easy.... I think its where he is finishing a 61xx kit.

Edited January 13 by Neal Ball

[Darwinian]

Good luck with the handrail. It's been discussed elsewhere on here too. I would recommend using a suitable piece of tube /tool handle of slightly smaller diameter than the smoke box door to form the main curve first. The first side corner can be done next. I've used a needle file handle bend the wire around in the past.  Then PUT the front handrail knob on. Now form the second side bend. Cut the side handrail sections slightly too long and test fit. Trim back further until they fit.

Some recommend doing it in two halves meeting inside the smoke box top handrail knob. Personally I've always ended up with a kink there when I've tried that.

[Neal Ball]

10 minutes ago, Darwinian said:

Good luck with the handrail. It's been discussed elsewhere on here too. I would recommend using a suitable piece of tube /tool handle of slightly smaller diameter than the smoke box door to form the main curve first. The first side corner can be done next. I've used a needle file handle bend the wire around in the past.  Then PUT the front handrail knob on. Now form the second side bend. Cut the side handrail sections slightly too long and test fit. Trim back further until they fit.

Some recommend doing it in two halves meeting inside the smoke box top handrail knob. Personally I've always ended up with a kink there when I've tried that.

 

Thanks very much, I will give that a go - probably on Monday..... tbc 😎

[MAP66]

That's coming along very nicely Neal and thanks for the mention in your excellent blog re. my adventures in scratch building a backhead for the 14/48XX. Looking at that printed version of your backhead from your blog it looks far superior than the cast whitemetal one available for the 14XX, which is why I made the choice to have a go at making one myself using plastic and brass scraps. 

[88C]

Good luck with the handrail, I have done quite a few over the years and it is tricky to get them right and sometimes it’s necessary to start again with a fresh piece of wire. I also find a pair of small round nosed pliers useful.

 

Basically I it the same as @Darwinian.

 

 

[Neal Ball]

22 minutes ago, MAP66 said:

That's coming along very nicely Neal and thanks for the mention in your excellent blog re. my adventures in scratch building a backhead for the 14/48XX. Looking at that printed version of your backhead from your blog it looks far superior than the cast whitemetal one available for the 14XX, which is why I made the choice to have a go at making one myself using plastic and brass scraps. 

 

It's in fact a resin backhead - it came with the kit.....

 

I am pleased that it's coming along so well. Hopefully I can maintain progress next week and get it primed at least.

 

Before I left the railway room, I started to look at the fitting of the decoder and stay-alive. I am hoping I can get pick-up wires onto at least the rear pony truck, hopefully the bogie as well. But with a 6800 uf capacitor, I wont need to do all the wheels!

[Neal Ball]

I’ve just filled in my nominations for the BRM awards 2023…..

 

Retailer of the year - always excellent service; great staff; the trunk; ability to ship seamlessly to the EU…

 

Hattons.

 

Thank you guys, gutted you will shortly be no more. 
 

Good luck and best wishes to all the staff and thank you.

 

[longchap]

54 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

I’ve just filled in my nominations for the BRM awards 2023…..

 

Retailer of the year - always excellent service; great staff; the trunk; ability to ship seamlessly to the EU…

 

Hattons.

 

Thank you guys, gutted you will shortly be no more. 
 

Good luck and best wishes to all the staff and thank you.

 

I could not agree with you more Neal and have made he same nomination. I already miss Hattons and although I've re-ordered most of my pre-orders with Kernow, I'm still considering the toplights. 

 

A sad week it has been.

 

 

 

Edited January 13 by longchap

[Coach bogie]

On 14/01/2024 at 08:33, Neal Ball said:

I’ve just filled in my nominations for the BRM awards 2023…..

 

Retailer of the year - always excellent service; great staff; the trunk; ability to ship seamlessly to the EU…

 

Hattons.

 

Thank you guys, gutted you will shortly be no more. 
 

Good luck and best wishes to all the staff and thank you.

 

Agree

 

Hattons is one of those institutions we all expect to always be there.

 

Regular childhood visits to my Grans in Liverpool included a walk up to Smithdown Road. Much of the stuff on Dad's set up came from there.

 

When I started building K's kits, several came from Hattons as they stocked the full range and could also supply the Romford wheel replacements.

 

I have not been a regular customer for several years as I tried supporting my local model shops first, but if I was in the area a visit was a must and there was always something to tempt.

 

I do hope this does not have a knock on effect. I am thinking of the model press with the monthly large format advertisements, a big hole revenue wise when these stop.

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

[Neal Ball]

1 minute ago, Coach bogie said:

Agree

 

Hattons is one of those institutions we all expect to always be there.

 

Regular childhood visits to my Grans in Liverpool included a walk up to Smithdown Road. Much of the stuff on Dad's set up came from there.

 

When I started building K's kits, several came from Hattons as they stocked the full range and could also supply the Romford wheel replacements.

 

I have not been a regular customer for several years as I tried supporting my local model shops first, but if I was in the area a visit was a must and there was always something to tempt.

 

I do hope this does not have a knock on effect. I am thinking of the model press with the monthly large format advertisements, a big hole revenue wise when these stop.

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

The ease with the trunk system - I used it when we were still in the UK, but living here in Spain it makes it so easy to ship things.

 

Add in the very easy shopping / on-line experience- it made Christmas easy, give my parents the link and hey Ho! That’s an easy Christmas present sorted.

 

Plus their PX service, shipping redundant items back to them for cash / exchange.

 

They will certainly be missed.