Wagon and load types for glassworks branch

[Guest bri.s]

Hi guys

 

Since the demise of my last layout I've been planning a new one and one of the features of the new one will be a set of exchange sidings and a branch to a glassworks .

The era is from 60's to 70's

 

Now I've got some small hopper wagons for sand and I'm hopefully going to have a couple of rakes of covhops

So that's the sand sorted

 

but got to thinking what other types of traffic could I have working in and out of the glassworks ,

The glassworks I know of only got sand in by rail by the 70's/80'sand everything else went in and out by road after the 60's

But with a bit of modellers licence I could have sand and coal going in

And glassware coming out plus what ever byproducts (if any ) I can find that could come out by rail

And if I had glassware and other things coming out what kind of wagons could I use for them

Any ideas or info would be a big help

 

Thanks

 

Brain

[TheSignalEngineer]

At one time there were a lot of 5-plank open shock wagons branded "Return to Spon Lane Basin". These were presumably used for traffic coming from Chance Bros glass works between Smethwick and Oldbury. The private siding closed c1969-70.

[40044]

Soda ash

Heavy fuel oil and / or coal for the boilers.

Some glassworks also take lime

 

Shocvans etc for the finished product.

[br2975]

Glass wagons e.g. "Glaswag" for crated plate glass.

.

Brian R

[uax6]

I would have thought that sand would be 16tonners, the stuff coming out of Middleton Towers was at the time, somewhere I've seen a photo of a rake of them all in the dirty after having ripped the track up round here...

 

Andy G

[Guest bri.s]

Thanks guys some great info and advice

 

Just been having a quick look on the web and found that the n gauge society do a shock van and shock 5 plank wagon

So now wondering how long for a rake ?i know it's a bit how longs a piece of string kind of question but what's an average 10 wagon rakes ?would 15 wagons look ok?

could I have both vans and open wagons in a rake ?

 

I've just bought some of the red covhops (without the pilkington lettering ) I was going to use them for a sand train and I was going to use a small hopper for sand aswel There's pictures of the small open hopper being used at beatson clarks in Barnsley upto the mid 80's I got a rake for my previous layout for that working I was going to swap them about with the covhops for a bit of interest the open hoppers would be earlier workings and the covhops later workings

 

Could I use the red covhops for soda ash or would I need the grey ones

and how could I convey the lime and I'll have a search for what lime was used for see if I can have that aswell and how would you convey lime ,covhops again?

 

I'd also have the coal in16tonners

 

For the motive power for the branch I'm thinking of using one of the DJModels j94's I don't think it's a loco that would have worked on a glassworks branch ,the loco's would be smaller I think and more of the industrial kind of loco but don't know of any other suitable loco in N gauge and I quite like the look of what I've seen of the j94 from the CADs and pictures on there website

 

Thanks

Again everyone

 

Brian

[asmay2002]

Surprised nobody has mentioned sand wagons so far.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brsand

[Guest bri.s]

Thanks for the link andy

 

For the sand wagons I'll be using these

I have a rake of 7 so far

They used to be used on the beatson Clark sand train which finished running in the mid 80's

I've ordered some bauxite cov hops aswell for a bit of variety

I've bookmarked a shock van and open wagon kit from the NGS so once there shop is back up and running I'll be ordering a rake of those

 

Thanks

 

Brian.

Thanks for the link andy

 

For the sand wagons I'll be using these

I have a rake of 7 so far

They used to be used on the beatson Clark sand train which finished running in the mid 80's

I've ordered some bauxite cov hops aswell for a bit of variety

I've bookmarked a shock van and open wagon kit from the NGS so once there shop is back up and running I'll be ordering a rake of those

 

Thanks

 

Brian.

[Guest bri.s]

Sorry don't know why it's posted twice

 

Thanks

 

Brian

[TheSignalEngineer]

A shock wagon branded "Empty to Spon Lane Basin, LMR" and some links to the private siding map in this thread. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/86291-ex-lms-shock-open-wagon-at-lancaster-what-is-the-branding/&do=findComment&comment=1464844

[Guest bri.s]

Thanks for that TheSignalEngineer

 

I wonder if I could have some kind of empty to (name of my exchange sidings as yet to be named )text on my wagons

I tried the link to the maps and couldn't get it work unfortunately ,although i am currently using my phone to view rmweb though as my laptops off for fixing

 

Thanks

 

Brian

[corneliuslundie]

I was told recently that at St Helens Pilkingtons also used to have trains of spentg sand out, to local dumps - only short distance but not necessarily on the site. No idea what wagons were used.

 

Pilkingtons used to have lots of PO wagons with rather smart liveries as well as at least one loco. There are photos in one of Keith Tyrton's books. Not sure when they ceased being owned by P but they would have been non-common-user so might have lasted after Nationalisation. Try Google.

[Fat Controller]

The Pilkington wagons lasted well into the 1960s- David Larkin's albums of private owner wagons, published by Bradford Barton, has a photo of one at Chelford in 1968. The wagon looks as though it's still in good condition; a 7-plank wooden bodied wagon, with wooden solebars and no doors in either sides or ends. Other wagons used to convey sand were Prestwins, whilst lime would be in sheeted opens, Prestwins or Covhops.

I'm not certain, but might there have been some traffic in 'cullet' (broken glass) , being returned from glass-works and other sources? Certainly, when going to our local glass suppliers in the 1960s and '70s, I remember that they were assiduous about collecting shards and off-cuts into special bins for return to the producers.

[luckymucklebackit]

Agree with the Prestwins, there was a glass factory (United Glass) close to Shettleston station on the Airdrie to Glasgow line which had its own siding, in the 1960s it was always Prestwins that were in the siding.

 

Jim

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

....I have a feeling that covhops conveyed soda ash to glassworks in some instances.

 

I'll try to track down some evidence.

 

Dave

[Guest bri.s]

Thanks guys all interesting stuff and a lot more to get my head around than I originally thought lol

 

I've just found this on the inter web

 

"Commercially produced glass can be classified as soda-lime, lead, fused silica, borosilicate, or 96 percent silica. Soda-lime glass, since it constitutes 77 percent of total glass production, is discussed here. Soda-lime glass consists of sand, limestone, soda ash, and cullet (broken glass). The manufacture of such glass is in four phases: (1) preparation of raw material, (2) melting in a furnace, (3) forming and (4) finishing. "

 

 

So I could have all these plus coal as inward bound traffic

 

If I had sand in the hoppers I posted a picture of earlier

 

what kind of wagons could I use for the soda ash (covhop? And would they have to be grey ones ? Does that make a difference ?)and cullet how would that be conveyed

 

I could use sheeted opens for the lime but is there any other option for that ?

 

And for outbound traffic would be open shock and shock vans and empties coal,sand,lime and empty wagons that conveyed the cullet ?

 

Thanks

 

Brian.

[Guest bri.s]

....I have a feeling that covhops conveyed soda ash to glassworks in some instances.

 

I'll try to track down some evidence.

 

Dave

Thanks that would be great

 

Thanks

 

Brian

[40044]

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_ActonGrange1966.pdf

 

Accident involving some runaway Covhops loaded with soda ash for the St. Helens area glassworks.

[Boris]

You could always have some fun with a glass wagon or two:

 

[Guest bri.s]

Thanks for that 40044

 

And I like the look of that boris I wonder if you can get one in N / 2mm

 

I've just been having a talk with someone and they were saying that they though that redferns glassworks monkbretton was getting cullet sent down from Scotland in polybulk wagons in the 80's would you get cullet in polybulks and what would it have come in before polybulks ?

Any ideas guys

 

Thanks

 

Brian

[Fat Controller]

The soda-ash Covhops could be red (piped or fitted), as long as they didn't have the BIS lettering on them, The same applies to those used for lime. Cullet, if it were conveyed by rail, would have been in 13t opens or 16t minerals. Lime might also have been conveyed, depending on the period, in ICI Alkali Division's wooden 5-plank opens.

Whilst in some areas, raw materials were taken directly by rail to the factory, in other places they were unloaded at goods yards. One example of this was in Central Scotland, where Cadder used to serve as a terminal for various flows. More recently, P D Stirling at Mossend has fulfilled a similar role.

Apart from the Shocks and Shockvans already mentioned, some manufacturers of glass bottles and jars were early adopters of palletisation, so Palvans and Palvan Shocks might be seen.

[Guest bri.s]

Thanks Fat Controller some great information there

 

My period to be modelled is early 60's to late 70's possibly early 80's

 

I'm going to try and run mostly steam then over some operating session let time progress and run green diesels then Br blue

 

Thanks

 

Brian

[pete_mcfarlane]

The Pilkington wagons lasted well into the 1960s- David Larkin's albums of private owner wagons, published by Bradford Barton, has a photo of one at Chelford in 1968. The wagon looks as though it's still in good condition; a 7-plank wooden bodied wagon, with wooden solebars and no doors in either sides or ends.

Presumably the lack of doors made them non-standard, which is why they stayed as private owner wagons rather than being taken over by BR like normal PO 7 plank wagons.