High Speed 2 Update - likely route revealed

[Glorious NSE]

A similar argument is being put forward from the chilterns, but with the interchange between HS2, HEx, GWML, Crossrail, NLL and Central Line at Old Oak I could see there being demand for a regular Paddington service being reinstated - crossrail should free up platforms at Paddington to allow for it...

[Guest Max Stafford]

It's all really an evolution of the attitude that saw many of our Victorian routes built miles from the places they were intended to serve. Gatehouse of Fleet, anyone...?

 

The post-imperial British mentality will find 100 reasons to mitigate something before it finds one reason to justify it.

 

Dave.

[Barry O]

Living in the third largest city in the UK (Leeds) why do I want to go to Birmingham (the second largest) to get to London (the largest) ( as it is we travel via Doncaster currently which is the second largest city in physical area) As usual West Yorkshire is being sold a pup with these plans

[Ron Ron Ron]

Living in the third largest city in the UK (Leeds) why do I want to go to Birmingham (the second largest) to get to London (the largest) .....

Yes, why would you want to go to Birmingham to get to London?

It would make no sense when you could use the proposed HS line which will bypass Birmingham on its way from Leeds to the capital.

 

...and by the way, Leeds is way down the pecking order as far as UK city size is concerned. :icon_thumbsup2:

 

 

 

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[Barry O]

Ron

 

sory but on physical size numero uno is Doncaster followed by Leeds on turnover its Birmingham then Leeds - everyone gets confused with Manchester as its GMS - metropolitan area - the good citizens of the City of Salford ( another good Duchess name) don't really count as part of the City of Manchester -----

 

But to get to London from Leeds why go anywhere near Birmingham?

 

I wonder if the routes described take into account underground workings (which was a problem for the ex Midland main line)?

[298]

Yes, why would you want to go to Birmingham to get to London?

It would make no sense when you could use the proposed HS line which will bypass Birmingham on its way from Leeds to the capital.

 

...and by the way, Leeds is way down the pecking order as far as UK city size is concerned. :icon_thumbsup2:

 

 

 

.

 

HS2 shouldn't be seen as a fast rail service, more of a replacement for short haul flights & the necessary airport expansion this demands. So in this respect, the proposed Leeds link is to serve the greater West Yorkshire conurbation area rather than one specific city.

 

Another closely related point that the ignorant media will have a field day with is London needs another runway. Having it 100 miles away on the end of a fast rail link may be a better solution than expanding Stanstead, Luton or Gatwick, or building on a completely new site near the Thames estuary or in the South Midlands, all of which would require upgraded transport links.

[Ron Ron Ron]

HS2 shouldn't be seen as a fast rail service, more of a replacement for short haul flights & the necessary airport expansion this demands. So in this respect, the proposed Leeds link is to serve the greater West Yorkshire conurbation area rather than one specific city.

I'm not actually sure which short haul flights the Leeds link is supposed to replace?

There are no short haul flights from Leeds, Sheffield or the East Midlands (all on this extension) to London Heathrow, London City or Birmingham, which are the destinations down the line.

 

The whole nonsense about HS2 replacing domestic short haul flights is sometimes quite laughable. Where it would work and is appropriate it's a good argument; but it's clear the politicians, journalists and media at large, haven't got a clue what they're talking about (nothing new there then eh? ).

Realistically, the only domestic air routes that could be partially or mostly replaced by this line are those from Glasgow and Edinburgh to Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham and London.

 

The Manchester to London air route has already seen quite a fall from its peak, due to the introduction of the faster, more frequent rail service on the upgraded WCML. The remaining flights from Manchester to Heathrow and Gatwick are largely serving a different market to that of the train, in so far that most of the passengers aren't going into central London at all but are either connecting to other flights, or travelling to other parts of the SE (e.g. the Thames Valley with its large number of businesses and corporate HQ's). Unless HS2 provides that much criticised fast link to Heathrow, its impact on flights will be minimal.

 

A much bigger prize is the Scottish lowlands to London air market, where a HS line would make quite a difference. But, along with the other routes I mentioned above, any HS extension to Scotland is a long way off under current plans (2030 to 2045 ? ). However, it's worth noting that even with HS2 only reaching as far as Manchester and Leeds, London - Scotland times will be significantly reduced.

 

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[Edwin_m]

sory but on physical size numero uno is Doncaster followed by Leeds on turnover its Birmingham then Leeds - everyone gets confused with Manchester as its GMS - metropolitan area - the good citizens of the City of Salford ( another good Duchess name) don't really count as part of the City of Manchester -----

 

But to get to London from Leeds why go anywhere near Birmingham?

 

May well be true but it's a red herring in terms of this argument. The important figure is the population and employment within an entire conurbation whether it happens to be one local authority area or several.

 

The shape of the initial high speed network is quite similar to that of the early motorway network (M1 and M6) and even to the earliest railways northwards from London where the main line was to Birmingham and many other places were served by branches off it.