Kirkby Luneside

[Physicsman]

Whilst I'm very happy about what I've built over the last 2 days, I'm not happy about the gap in the Fell caused by the access area (see 2nd and 3rd pics, my previous post). So I'm going to do something about it.

 

I've decided to build a second lift-out - this time bridging the gap in the Fell, thus giving continuity. It will be very easy to construct, easy to lift out and, I think, just make the whole area look a lot better.

 

I think I've got all the materials I need, so I may get started tomorrow. 

 

And I only went into the bunker after my tea to check I'd turned the heater off. Oh bu99er!

 

Jeff

Edited January 10, 2016 by Physicsman

[Jason T]

I'd honestly keep the two 'halves' separate mate, with backscene end boards on either side; the one with the headshunt being low hills and the other your mountain. I know you love building bloody great hills but you are adding complexity when it's not needed.

 

As such, it gives the impression that the railway arrives from the south through lower fells, passes through the station and then enters big hill country, a lovely contrast.

 

You really can ignore me with this one as it will look nice either way, I'm just postulating on what I would do but it's not my train set.

[Physicsman]

As discussed in my PM, I HATE that gap. It just looks stupid. I agree I could keep both parts separate, but the intuitive thing is to see the locos coming and going through the Fell.

 

In that respect, I'm going to modify the left side of the hill I put in today (the bit to the left of the farm road). We'll see how it goes. The beauty of the lift out is that if it looks cr@p, then it can be lifted-out, literally, and binned!!

 

Jeff

[peach james]

Jeff, could  you hang teddy bear fur as per Blea Moor across the gap?  If it was attached either with snaps or velcro on the sides, then it might work.  (perhaps try with a old pillowcase first?)  Or am I missing a chunk of removable scenery?

 

James

[HeeleyBridge]

Can you put wheels on the removable bit of fell? Just a hollow shell on a frame to keep weight down? 

[islandbridgejct]

Hi Jeff,

 

Some questions for you about your new cutting:

 

Is it going to be a rock cutting?

 

If not, is it too steep for a grassy embankment to support itself? (It looks too steep from the photos.)

 

You seem to get ridges in the scenery at the height of the join in each layer of insulation board. Will you be disguising these with scenery or adding more plaster bandage to build them up so that they do not all appear to occur at the same level?

 

Is your roadway a bit wide for an accommodation crossing?

 

Would a farmer have built a roadway like this right at the base of a fell?

 

(I'm not suggesting answers to any of these questions, but I hope asking them helps with your rationale for this corner of the layout so that it meets your standards.)

 

Best wishes,

 

Alan

(A different Alan - we get everywhere.)

[Physicsman]

Hi Alan. Some good comments/questions.

 

I've always made rock cuttings, but wasn't planning a cutting until I chucked that lot together on Saturday. There will be a number of significant changes in the whole area by tomorrow, including severe modifications to the cuttings. They will be more shallow and be grassed.

 

The joints you see are a consequence of a layer of mod-roc across the insulation boards and - as elsewhere - won't be visible as the whole mod-roc area....rather a lot of stuff - will have a plaster coating on top. So again, bear with me - the end result will look very different from the underbase.

 

As for the farmer's road. If you look on the KL thread - around page 262 - you'll find that the overbridge was originally built to carry an aqueduct. It was then converted to carry a dirt track (see post # 9286, page 372) and then KL was scrapped. I'll do a similar thing here. The actual "road" area will narrow down to single track when the area gets a top coat.

 

Jeff 

[peach james]

Just to clarify, Jeff, I didn't see the posts between you and Jason about the gap before I posted what I posted...I'd agree, the gap looks unsightly.  Ideas I would have are to have a drapeable bit of cloth, or a solid but hollow core section that slides in for when you are having a operating session.  Both are workable, I think, with the cloth being easier in the event of an oops on one's noggin.  (trust me, I know...)  The narrower the duck under section, the easier it is to get under it.

 

James

[lanchester]

May I be allowed to barge in on a couple of points - my only credentials being that I was at Sedbergh School 1970-74 so know the S&C area quite well (although not as well as my late father, who with the OTC and the local Home Guard spent parts of the war guarding the tunnels overnight - not the place here but I assure you that 'Dad's Army' was a toned-down version of the original: bulls, thorn trees, tea at one end, milk and sugar at the other, sitting on the knees of locals with loaded shotguns pointing into your as yet untested genitals - you get the picture).

 

Anyway, my points are firstly, quite trivial - a couple of pages back folks were agonising about representations of Tarmac - be assured, the fells were in the seventies at least, pretty well strangers to tarmac as a constructional material - there may have been a tar spray (which isn't the same thing) to try to hold things together, but that rapidly broke down and even on relatively important ('B' ) roads, the strip of grass in the middle was pretty standard. So the finish, apart from the grass/weeds, you are looking for is a fair bit more textured than what you would have found in an urban environment.

 

But, the colour may be as dark or even darker. There is a metamorphosed limestone known as Dent marble - It's a middling grey as quarried but polishes to black, with white inclusions (graphtolites, bellemites? - I've forgotten my geology). There was an industry around Dent in C19 providing this for chimney pieces etc. Chippings went into roads and duly got polished black. Not an easy finish to pull off, and I doubt viewers would believe it anyway.

 

My second observation is more general. Physicsman and others agonise much about fells (and not that fated locomotive). I just wonder whether, at least if you are planning a layout in a reasonably hilly area, it might make sense to plan in the geology before you plan the track. This has consequences:

 

First, in sedimentary rock, you can work out what levels or dips of rock strata are 'right' On the S&C the underlying bedrock is mostly in well defined more or less horizontal strata but (unlike the Midland through the Peak) this can be smeared over or disguised by boulder clay. Once you get into the Eden Valley, the geology becomes v different, stuff like Old Red Sandstone. (Someone now is going to tell me it is New Red, but its 40 years since I knew this stuff so please excuse).

 

Another aspect, perhaps peculiar to the S&C , is that incidence of boulder clay. As recorded (I forget where), this glacial debris needs dynamiting in dry weather, and a few days later might need scooping up in buckets in the wet (hence continuing landslides along the S&C to this day). Savvy engineers would avoid such ground if they could (although not often possible up on the Pennines). The boulder clay gives you the 'rounded hills' contrast to the angular limestone and Yoredale Series beds - both characteristic of the S&C but difficult to combine effectively in a smallish layout.

 

And, if you've worked out the geology you are going to model,  you have a reason for why the railway went the way it did (in other words is this the natural way for an engineer to try to defeat the terrain?) Several factors here - the very old one of trying to balance spoil from cuttings and tunnels with the requirement for fill for embankments etc; second - need for quality building stone (on the S&C a lot of 'public facing' buildings are built with the Red Sandstone from excavations on the Eden Valley stretch - less public bits using any local stone available). It also gives you an excuse for an otherwise unaccountable flat bit - 'Yeh, well, they quarried that for the building stone, innit'. Another aspect that I am occasionally critical of (hark at me, not having done any serious modelling for forty years!) is the line of streams etc that are portrayed on layouts - they need to derive, as far as possible, from the geography around them - otherwise it can look as though you are making water flow uphill, or at the least, it isn't finding its natural route (which, particularly at the moment, we all know is what water does!. Ask them in Appleby - Oh and don't get me started on the BBC calling the County Town of Westmoreland a 'village').

 

Please forgive if this intervention from an 'armchair enthusiast' of railway modelling, who couldn't do any of the stuff you people do and which gives the likes of me so much pleasure, seems inappropriate, but I'm really trying to help!

 

Oh, there's another thing which I meant to raise over at the'Dent' strand but I guess will be picked up here. A while ago, Dent had a 3 wheel Scammell in its yard. Now., I ain't saying that's inauthentic cos I just don't know, but I do know the roads round there and if true, it must have been scary (actually, any trailer combo, 3 4 or 6 wheeled!).

[Physicsman]

Thanks for your observations and it's good to see we're entertaining you in the S&C section!

 

As far as Kirkby Luneside goes, there are a couple of guiding elements to the layout build. The station and goods area is based on the prototype at Kirkby Stephen, but not slavishly so. There's a degree of compression due to the available Bunker space, and liberties have been taken with the precise positioning of turnouts. This really doesn't matter, unless you are trying to make a virtual copy of the place. The track geometry and operating layout is recognisable as "Midland S&C".

 

The second guide relates to the landscape. Think S&C and viaducts, fells, stone walls etc come to mind. The landscape is created to give the general "feel" of the S&C. The viaduct is a 6 arch scaled-down hybrid of Arten Gill and Ribblehead. The Fell, once plastered, will have a high degree of the roundness you attribute to boulder clay. And at least my stream, once created, will run downhill.

 

Don't worry about how long it is since you last modelled. No modelling is required to be a contributor on here. We can tend to get too focused on certain details, but in the end I think we all accept that this is a hobby and a lot of fun!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Just to clarify, Jeff, I didn't see the posts between you and Jason about the gap before I posted what I posted...I'd agree, the gap looks unsightly.  Ideas I would have are to have a drapeable bit of cloth, or a solid but hollow core section that slides in for when you are having a operating session.  Both are workable, I think, with the cloth being easier in the event of an oops on one's noggin.  (trust me, I know...)  The narrower the duck under section, the easier it is to get under it.

 

James

 

Thanks for your suggestions, James. Apologies for not getting back to you earlier. I've built a lift-out section and I'm hoping it might be in a reasonable state to photograph tomorrow!

 

No teddy bear killing, though!

 

Jeff

[67A]

Hi Jeff,

 

Very interesting content in the post from 'Lanchester', It never fails to amaze me how educational this hobby is whether you like it or not you can't help soaking up all manner of information which in the main should help in producing a worthwhile representation of whatever your chosen subject. I still have my one and only road surface to finally detail so Lanchester's post will assist in me going in the right direction. His observation regarding the Scammell on Dent has been previously made however I just love the little things! I have a large collection of road vehicles now sadly almost redundant but will in future keep the Scammell out of any photographs and use something more suitable.

 

Really enjoying the build process with the really effective 'wintry' scene being created  

[gismorail]

Morning Jeff. 

Things move so quickly  once you get stuck in and the glacial movement in the bunker has been very active over the last week and it does look impressive.

 

I have been thinking about your 'problem' with 'the gap' and wondered if you have considered making a fibre-glass mould for your removable lift out section. I used this material many years back when I was modelling the Rhb in the Swiss Alps and found it a very good to work with. I first used it to strengthen the board joists and later an add on for a mountain top which was removable and very light and strong

Just something for you to consider. 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Not sure if Jeff does "lightweight".................................................

[jukebox]

*snip*

 

Don't worry about how long it is since you last modelled. No modelling is required to be a contributor on here. We can tend to get too focused on certain details, but in the end I think we all accept that this is a hobby and a lot of fun!

 

Jeff

 

...however a passing familiarity with Photoshop comes in handy!

[gismorail]

Not sure if Jeff does "lightweight".................................................

I know what your saying in that statement but with a little 'thinking a fibreglass moulded fell would be 'very' strong. I will dig out some photo's of my Alpine mountain to show my thoughts 

[HeeleyBridge]

I was thinking along the same lines when I suggested a wheeled unit. I was thinking back to moulding a fairing for a mini based sidecar outfit in the mid seventies. We moulded glass fibre onto plaster formers. Then they were mounted on wheeled frames to allow moving without flexing whilst aligning and drilling mounting holes etc. 

[Physicsman]

Thanks for the input, serious, humorous, flippant..... Good stuff.

 

I DO read and consider what everyone says - please don't think I ignore suggestions when you see me go off in my own direction!

 

Update: Further major glacial action has been taking place and a lift-out section of Fell has been created - to the point of insulation board with mod-roc topping. Just come in to have my breakfast (I forgot about it when I went into the Bunker at 7) and then there'll be a further landscape adjustment.

 

It all looks very boring in white - yes Mike, I know you're just jealous of my blizzard conditions.

 

Maybe a pic or two later.

 

Jeff

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Mine was the serious input as ever.

[jukebox]

Mine was the serious input as ever.

 

I guess mine was the flippant...

[southern42]

Impressive, Jeff.  A joy to see.

All I might add is to keep the access simple and easy to move / lift (speaking from experience!).

 

When we stayed in the area, the main accommodation was upstairs where the corridor and doors were under the sloping roof.  I insisted we used the small self contained "flat" down stairs because walking about and moving things wasn't so awkward.  Maybe we should think more about making life easy for ourselves even if the modelling itself is a challenge.

 

Anyway, keep up the good work.

[Physicsman]

Thanks Polly.

 

It's a fun project to work on, though I've re-done a few things over the past couple of days and it's been a bit frustrating!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Here's some pics.

 

The existing hillside/cuttings have been severely devastated by an incoming scalpel moving at supersonic speed. Maybe the photos don't bring out the changes!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jeff

[Rowsley17D]

Hi Jeff, it looks like some of that white stuff covering your fells is on its way to us over the next few days. I like the contoured edging, but please say you're not going to paint it black.

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff, it looks like some of that white stuff covering your fells is on its way to us over the next few days. I like the contoured edging, but please say you're not going to paint it black.

No worries there,Jonathan. It's love!y white birch and is going to stay that way!

 

Jeff