Kirkby Luneside

[unravelled]

Looking at your full width uniform ballasting, it's interesting how, to me, just the presence of the sleepers appears to darken the ballast colour in that area. This apparent darkening is also present in photos of the real thing, especially in photos from a low level.

In your painting tests, I like the effect of the left hand sample, where the paintng covers both tracks and the 6 foot ballast. I think a light uniform wash across the whole width will provide a good base for local detailing effects where locos stand etc..

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[Rowsley17D]

I would go for patches of all three, Jeff. It would never look uniformly weathered to all the same shade.

[uax6]

I would go for patches of all three, Jeff. It would never look uniformly weathered to all the same shade.

And it's a shame that you haven't got a bit (say 3-4 feet) that's been laid in flatbottom, so then you could have a nice area of cleaner ballast. Also don't forget that at every 60ft theres a fishplate, which gets oil at least once a year, so there is a noticeably darker oily patch of ballast there too.

 

The key is to get a good overall mix across the whole trackbed. Also use different shades of reddy-brown for the rail sides too, that changes colour dependant on its location and age too....

 

I suppose it depends just how far you want to go....

 

Andy G

[Physicsman]

Please keep your comments and suggestions coming in. I'm a bit tied up with non-rail stuff at the moment, but I'm reading every word and there's some useful tips in there.

 

Dave, interesting comment about the sleepers. I've noticed as much in colour photos taken by Michael Welch on the S&C in the 60s. Andy, I like the reminder about the oily patches near the fishplates.....

 

When I get chance, I'll start with a full base of the lighter mix and build darker on top. We'll see how it goes!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff,

I think it's been well over a year since I last posted on your thread. Some how you dropped off the content I follow and I thought that may be you had stopped posting. I don't get as much time on here as I used too, but I had a bit of time last night and found your thread again.

 

The layout is looking great and  the wagons are coming together nicely too. Good luck with the point rodding there is a bit too it but if you do decide to have a go it's well worth the effort.

 

Cheers Peter.  

 

Hi Peter.

 

You may not have been looking in here, but I have an occasional visit to Llanbourne. Welcome back to the S&C!

 

Wagons - yes, I need to convert a few (dozen) more. And the point rodding.... Well, I have a VERY detailed plan drawn out (thanks again to the fantastic work of my "consultant") and my efforts need to justify the effort that went into those plans. So at some stage there'll be a plethora of rodding traversing the tracks!

 

Thanks for finding KL2 and I hope all is well in sunny Oz. 

 

Jeff

[P.C.M]

Hi Peter.

 

You may not have been looking in here, but I have an occasional visit to Llanbourne. Welcome back to the S&C!

 

Wagons - yes, I need to convert a few (dozen) more. And the point rodding.... Well, I have a VERY detailed plan drawn out (thanks again to the fantastic work of my "consultant") and my efforts need to justify the effort that went into those plans. So at some stage there'll be a plethora of rodding traversing the tracks!

 

Thanks for finding KL2 and I hope all is well in sunny Oz. 

 

Jeff

Thanks Jeff,

I will be following from now. I was glad I took the time to do Rodding on Llanbourne sort of wish I had made some attempt at the signal pulleys now. 

 

Weather here has been really good though we have had quite a bit of rain today.

 

Cheers Peter.

[halsey]

Some progress has been made on the layout, since I arrived back home yesterday.

 

I've added in some DAS (onto a PVA base - PVA and DAS work well together, both in terms of increasing ease of workability and added strength) ballast shoulders. These have had a day to set and have been given a rough coat of brown paint.

 

Ballast will be applied to the viaduct area of the track - using the "Captain Kernow method" (see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80480-ballasting-without-tearson-thin-sleeper-track/)- starting later today.

 

IMG_4289.JPG

 

IMG_4293.JPG

 

Jeff

 

Just found this topic as ballasting is my next nemesis

 

What is DAS??

 

What is the reason for the "brown" areas as the first part of the process?

 

As you PVA then ballast do you simply put it on top or agitate it to create a porridge?

 

Specifically what ballast?

 

Thanks - sorry if these are very "newbie" styled questions!

[67A]

Thanks Andy G' another job for me to do, "oil the fishplates" cheers Andy I never gave that a thought.

[Physicsman]

Just found this topic as ballasting is my next nemesis

 

What is DAS??

 

What is the reason for the "brown" areas as the first part of the process?

 

As you PVA then ballast do you simply put it on top or agitate it to create a porridge?

 

Specifically what ballast?

 

Thanks - sorry if these are very "newbie" styled questions!

 

Hi "halsey" - do we have a proper first name?

 

For the ballasting technique, have a look at this article - it explains it all:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80480-ballasting-without-tearson-thin-sleeper-track/

 

Brown areas - not sure if you are referring to the cess base. There has to be a cess to either side of the ballast - for drainage - so I put an area of rough surface to either side of the track - but further out than the edge of the ballast shoulder.

 

DAS is air-dried clay. I used it to make the "bricks" that I built the stone walls from. DAS is used by many modellers to coat scratchbuilt buildings, which they then scribe to produce a brick or stone effect.

 

Does this help? If not, please ask again and again until you get the answers you need. If I don't answer, someone will!

 

Jeff

 

Edit: What type of ballast? A matter of personal choice. I use stuff from the Woodland Scenics range and I use Fine ballast ("supposed" to be for N gauge) as I find Medium grade (for 00/EM) is too coarse. I have used Fine "Grey Blend". You can buy ash/cinders etc colours. Have a look on the WS website.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

Here are 4 pics showing the weathering I've applied to the ballast on the viaduct so far. This represents an hour of effort and so far uses only a "stone grey", applied in different strengths of washes between the sleepers.

 

I'll be adding in some additional brown/rust colour in places.

 

I've taken the photos at this stage as I want some feedback. I like the variation in darkness and the fact that the 6' is obviously lighter than the track area, as you might expect it to be. I also like the darker sleeper areas, but I've so far refrained from going too dark, keeping a number of ballast areas relatively light.

 

Anyway, no more painting until tomorrow, so I'd welcome your comments. Not "good", or "bad", but preferably what you think works well (if anything) and suggestions for additions. I've never done such an extensive ballast weathering. I'm really pleased with how the ballast went down and I'd like to be happy with the paint effect.

 

 

 

 

 

Jeff

 

ps. Please remember - this is a PARTWAY stage - it isn't meant to be a finished article.

[Rowsley17D]

You have, so far, achieved a good patchy look which reflects, to my eyes, what the real thing would look like. Perhaps the next stage is to darken the area between the 4 foot a little?

[Physicsman]

You have, so far, achieved a good patchy look which reflects, to my eyes, what the real thing would look like. Perhaps the next stage is to darken the area between the 4 foot a little?

 

Do you mean this....

 

 

 

As that's the thing I don't think is quite right - too patchy at the mo.

 

Jeff

[mark axlecounter]

Jeff the 4ft is always dirty because of ash cinder oil and also waste from the toilets and as Andy says oily fish plates and rust.

[halsey]

Hi "halsey" - do we have a proper first name?

 

For the ballasting technique, have a look at this article - it explains it all:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80480-ballasting-without-tearson-thin-sleeper-track/

 

Brown areas - not sure if you are referring to the cess base. There has to be a cess to either side of the ballast - for drainage - so I put an area of rough surface to either side of the track - but further out than the edge of the ballast shoulder.

 

DAS is air-dried clay. I used it to make the "bricks" that I built the stone walls from. DAS is used by many modellers to coat scratchbuilt buildings, which they then scribe to produce a brick or stone effect.

 

Does this help? If not, please ask again and again until you get the answers you need. If I don't answer, someone will!

 

Jeff

 

Edit: What type of ballast? A matter of personal choice. I use stuff from the Woodland Scenics range and I use Fine ballast ("supposed" to be for N gauge) as I find Medium grade (for 00/EM) is too coarse. I have used Fine "Grey Blend". You can buy ash/cinders etc colours. Have a look on the WS website.

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for all of this

 

Its a good job I'm going away for a while - I feel this topic is introducing me to a whole new world which is a little intimidating!

 

I have spent the last 24 hrs investigating terms and other niche suppliers to see what you guys get excited about "cess", "DAS" C&L Finescale scratch-building etc etc

 

I will keep watching and engage again more fully when I'm back and deciding what to do with my layout as it is definitely at something of a watershed now which will need reviewing going into next winter

 

Julian

[Physicsman]

Jeff the 4ft is always dirty because of ash cinder oil and also waste from the toilets and as Andy says oily fish plates and rust.

 

Cheers Mark. I'm taking a "graded" approach to weathering the ballast and don't want to make it TOO dark, too quick.

 

The thought of the 4' being coloured via human waste is one that hadn't occurred to me before....

 

I'll be in the Bunker shortly (heater is on - first time in a week), so more painting. I'll darken things a bit, add a touch of "rust" onto the ballast and post more pics later.

 

Jeff

[uax6]

Please say you're not going into the bunker to p*ss and s*it on your track......

 

Andy G

[Physicsman]

Hi,

 

Thanks for all of this

 

Its a good job I'm going away for a while - I feel this topic is introducing me to a whole new world which is a little intimidating!

 

I have spent the last 24 hrs investigating terms and other niche suppliers to see what you guys get excited about "cess", "DAS" C&L Finescale scratch-building etc etc

 

I will keep watching and engage again more fully when I'm back and deciding what to do with my layout as it is definitely at something of a watershed now which will need reviewing going into next winter

 

Julian

 

Hi Julian.

 

One problem with any hobby or activity is the the plethora of jargon that can sometimes act as a barrier. My attitude has always been to just get stuck in and ask questions as I go along. I've been active on RMweb for over 5 years and learnt so much from the input of all the folks on here.

 

There are a number of long-running threads where developments are done in an almost "how to", "this is what I did" manner (KL2 included, hopefully), so you should be able to get the gist of what's going on. Please remember that everyone does things their own way - I wouldn't necessarily recommend spending 200 hours building stone walls if you can buy a product that's suitable for your layout off the shelf! But it's often the case that individual circumstances (in my case, massively varying gradients) force you into coming up with your own way round the problem - and that's the fun bit for me.

 

Whenever you decide to commit to your project you are always welcome to join in on here.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Please say you're not going into the bunker to p*ss and s*it on your track......

 

Andy G

 

What a good idea!!   

 

Actually, the first thought that occurred to me when I read Mark's post was whether model brown turds were available in 4mm..... Langley? Parkside Dundas?       

 

Jeff

 

EDIT: Some small pieces of DAS and a touch of "burnt umber" paint would do the trick...

Edited March 22, 2017 by Physicsman

[mark axlecounter]

What ha I done    lol

[unravelled]

I have to say that  am nowhere near doing anything like this myself, but I have had  a few thoughts about what you are producing. They are in no way intended as criticism, it goes without saying that I am immensely impressed by your efforts, but I hope they will add to the discussion.  

I like the colour range, but my feeling is that the colour variation is too sudden/fussy. Rather than the 50mm patches, I wonder whether stretches of 300-600mm of one tone would be easier on my eye.  Fishplate grease detail would be in the 5-10mm range. The only locations I would imagine a 50-100 patch of variation is where locos stand, at platforms, water cranes, or possibly signals. I guess that the two tracks could develop different colours too. A train working hard uphill might leave different deposits from one speeding/coasting down. Another thought, would track om viaducts with wing walls concentrate the dirt/damp, while open track would bemefit from better ventilation and tend to be lighter?

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[Physicsman]

I have to say that  am nowhere near doing anything like this myself, but I have had  a few thoughts about what you are producing. They are in no way intended as criticism, it goes without saying that I am immensely impressed by your efforts, but I hope they will add to the discussion.  

I like the colour range, but my feeling is that the colour variation is too sudden/fussy. Rather than the 50mm patches, I wonder whether stretches of 300-600mm of one tone would be easier on my eye.  Fishplate grease detail would be in the 5-10mm range. The only locations I would imagine a 50-100 patch of variation is where locos stand, at platforms, water cranes, or possibly signals. I guess that the two tracks could develop different colours too. A train working hard uphill might leave different deposits from one speeding/coasting down. Another thought, would track om viaducts with wing walls concentrate the dirt/damp, while open track would bemefit from better ventilation and tend to be lighter?

 

Thanks

 

Dave

 

Morning Dave.

 

Don't worry about making comments - I asked for them and what you've said is wholly constructive.

 

I agree with you, which is why I felt (as I said in post # 3917 above) that the effect was too patchy and needed to be more consistent. This ties in with what Jonathan suggested, ie. to fill out the 4' with more dirt in places to give a broader, more even effect with some highlights.

 

Words don't really express how something appears in this case. So I'm off to the Bunker to reduce the patchiness and I'll post some pics later. I'd appreciate your further comments - as well as those of Jonathan, AndyG and Mark, whose contributions here have been very helpful.

 

Jeff

[Reorte]

I was filling in my sidings with a horrible mixture of ash and black powder paint (most of which has come off since because I was relying on wetting the paint to keep it all in place). This filthy concoction got everywhere, and when that was on a bit of ballast I'd tried it weathered it nicely, although it's not so good on the sleepers. That said a bit of sanding on the sleepers after that lot hit them looked decent in the sidings, although not perfect since the track was already in place.

[The Stationmaster]

It is an area where looking at photos - preferably colour photos - can pay dividends.  Track weathering varies between the steam and diesel era with the latter showing deposits of oil in the four foot at stations and 'stop all' signals (those where trains always seemed to be stopped) whereas in the steam era there could be small coal spills, sometimes bit of ash and inevitably injector overflow on both the six foot and cess sides leaving little wet trails.  Brown staining - from brake block dust!! - would be most obvious approaching stations where trains are braking (it was vey common on the old Southern Region network before the arrival of disc braked vehicles) but don't forget it will be less obvious in the station platform itself because by then brakes would be releasing.

 

Other weathering would relate to local topography - for example some cuttings could get quite damp, or even wet, affecting both the appearance and the weathering itself although green growth would be unusual back in the days of local maintenance.

[Physicsman]

Here's a selection of pics. The first two show the state of the rails near Ais gill summit and at Appleby respectively. If anyone objects to my copying these then I'll remove them.

 

 

 

The next 3 pics show the state of the viaduct ballast as at 30 minutes ago. I've added in some more grey to the 4' and - though it's not obvious - put a coating of burnt umber (a rust-reddish brown) inside and outside the rails (for 6-7mm on either side). Looked obvious when wet, blends away as the paint dries. At least there's a clear demarcation between the 4' area and the 6' area.

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty happy with this, but - again - ask the question. Should the 4' be a little bit darker?

 

I've tried to keep things consistent - except for accentuating fishplate areas (thanks Andy) - as discussed with Dave earlier. I think it's now less "patchy".

 

Comments?

 

Jeff

 

 

[Rowsley17D]

The ballast in between the sleepers outside the rails in the photos seem very dark. Oil from axle boxes?