Would these signals before red/red or green/red?

[topsy11]

Hello,

 

Finally got some CR Signals and just having a bit of a play with them wiring them up.

 

I've done a very rough mock up of my station area which had two through platforms and two station sidings.

 

I'm going to be using 2 aspect signals on the sidings which are marked 'SIGNALS A/B'

 

If this is even close to being realistic would both signals be set at red and only go to green once a train is ready to depart and its clear ahead or would the track that's got the point set from the siding have a green signal and the one the point is set against have a red signal?

 

Hope this makes sense?

 

Thanks

Mark

[big jim]

In real life they would be controlled signals so would be red until the signaller pulled off which ever one the points are set to

[big jim]

Or even if they are just sidings (ie non passenger) just have a single signal on the exit to the sidings and 'stop boards' instead of signals, ie a driver would have to ring the box to get permission to pass the stop board to exit the sidings towards the protecting signal

 

Exit: actually scrap that i can see that 'signal b' line is actually a platform so would have to be properly signalled, signal A could be a position light instead (ground mounted shunting signal)

[topsy11]

Thanks for the quick reply mate.

 

So double red and then when a train is ready to depart the signal goes to green for the respective line thats set?

 

Thanks again

Mark

[Dagworth]

What do you mean by double red? And didn't you already get a comprehensive set of answers on how the real railway would signal this area here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93566-are-these-signals-in-the-right-position-for-this-bit-of-track/ ?

[big jim]

Thanks for the quick reply mate.

 

So double red and then when a train is ready to depart the signal goes to green for the respective line thats set?

 

Thanks again

Mark

Pretty much or see my edit above

 

Im sure others will come up with other ideas too

[TheSignalEngineer]

They should also be 3-aspect signals if they read up to another signal which can display a red aspect.

[topsy11]

What do you mean by double red? And didn't you already get a comprehensive set of answers on how the real railway would signal this area here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93566-are-these-signals-in-the-right-position-for-this-bit-of-track/ ?

 

I mean so signal A and Signal B are both red when a trains in the station and then turns to green when its ready to go and the lines clear or would the one that has the path set be on green with the other signal on red.

 

I did get some answers on that thread, you're correct, however it doesn't answer the question I've asked here.

[phil-b259]

Right some basics here

 

In colour light, multiple aspect signalled areas (MAS in railway speak) (I.e. NOT semaphore signalled areas) different rules apply

 

Firstly it is forbidden for a driver to leave on a green and find the next signal the approch at red as they will be unable to stop in time. Thus every red aspect MUST be preceded by a yellow one**. Unless it gives the driver authority to start moving from a dead end line like a bay.

 

** I know there are plenty of exceptions such as freight only lines but I am keeping things simple.

 

Secondly unlike semaphore signalled areas, we don't plonk signals in all over the place. In a situation such as yours there will be a single signal 2 or 3 aspect signal giving authority to leave the bay and proceed along the main line till the next signal (which could be miles way) is reached. The basic principle 90 %* of the time is that signals should be placed so that NO train (and remember when I say no train you have to take into account the longest train that may operate - I.e. it's no good placing signals with a 3car DMU in mind when you have 20 wagon coal trains also using the route) will be standing overpaint work when halted by signals.

 

* Yes I know you get all sorts of oddities round busy station throats but I am trying to keep things simple.

 

Shunt signals by contrast can be placed more frequently if required and can involve trains standing over point work if it makes shunting easier. However if we examine the track plan you have provided its too small to have anything other than basic provision. One shunt signal to allow access out of the siding plus two more allowing a train to proceed into the siding or use the crossover is roughly all that you need.

 

While it is of course your layout I would be VERY CAREFULL about rushing things where signalling is concerned. - They are nothing light road traffic lights in their placement and I would urge you to spend some more time researching things..

 

Finally can you please provide more details - your track plan is difficult to interpret as it sands. As I have said in the past, forget layout planning software, get a pen and paper and sketch out the track layout (then upload a photo) for us. When it comes to signalling design what we need is an accurate schematic of the tracks, platforms, etc (think the tube map, electrical wiring diagrams or even IKEA assembly instructions here). Real world details like the exact pieces of track you have used are completely irrelevant when it comes to signalling design

 

Finally when drawing up a signalling scheme for your layout it is vitally important to consider what is going on "off scene" as it were. This is where the old pen and paper comes in handy as you can sketch out your layout including the 10 miles of approches. You then apply real world signalling principles to your plan which will give you an accurate idea of where things go and eliminating he classic howler of having a distant signal in the modelled area when there is no way it would be there on the real thing. Once you have done this the VERY LAST thing you should do is draw on the "cut" lines as it where and defining the area you are actually going to model.