Paint for French models

[ianp]

I am about to start painting some model buildings for my layout. Where, if anywhere, can I buy authentic looking paint? The LR Presse website (for instance) sell some pots of paint, but it is very expensive, which I suspect may be typical of French suppliers. The instructions for my kits suggest a lot of mixing of either Humbrol or Revell colours (which are specified) but I'd like to avoid the mixing process and just use paint straight out of a tin. Any ideas?

[jwealleans]

I obtained some Railcolor paint from AMF87 for the French wagons I built.  It was really poor stuff, very thin and translucent.  I persisted with one colour but gave up on the other and used a close Railmatch pot instead.

 

I have had some Lifecolor paint for German vehicles which was very good - if you can find a RAL number so you know what to order.

 

With the change in regulations I'm not sure the Royal Mail would handle the Railcolor paint anyway now.

[Andy Hayter]

I have to say that my limited experience with Railcolor  was not the same as Jonathan.  I did need to apply 2 coats, but I frequently find that the case with most paints.

 

Alternatively you can consider Interfer

 

http://www.train-modelisme.com/data/Interfer.pdf

 

These are acrylic/water based and should therefore not be subject to RM restrictions provided there are only 4 pots per parcel.

[billbedford]

If you are painting buildings I suggest you read this account by Aidan Campbell which advocate using a few ordinary acrylic colours and mixing them to suit your model.

[LooseHead]

I agree with Bill (who would dare not to, anyway?) that for painting buildings it is far better to use basic acrylics and mix as you go - this is the best way to emulate the variations in tone and hue found on the prototype - although Busch do do a set of scenery paints, which are probably optimised for German infrastructure but ought to also be appropriate at least for Northern France. For rolling stock and/or road vehicles, when there isn't an off-the-shelf colour the 'military' modelling ranges provide plenty of blues, greys and browns from which to choose a match that suits your colour vision. Realising that I'll have difficulty replacing my current stock of Precision and Railmatch when exhausted I am going through this process in reverse at the moment, looking for matches to MR, LNWR and LMS colours from the Tamiya, Revell, Lifecolor, Mr Color and Humbrol ranges (which I can obtain fairly easily over here). In your case I'd recommend starting with the Vallejo European Railway Colors set, 71191. Now that RM have rescinded their '4 pot' limit on acrylics you might find this a little easier to obtain.

[Pacific231G]

I am about to start painting some model buildings for my layout. Where, if anywhere, can I buy authentic looking paint? The LR Presse website (for instance) sell some pots of paint, but it is very expensive, which I suspect may be typical of French suppliers. The instructions for my kits suggest a lot of mixing of either Humbrol or Revell colours (which are specified) but I'd like to avoid the mixing process and just use paint straight out of a tin. Any ideas?

From description in Loco Revue & RMF etc. the vast majority of French modellers use exactly the same paints from Humbrol, Revell or Tamiya for their building kits as the vast majority of British modellers*  but personally I find Acrylics far  better at giving me the range of colours that I want but don't ignore the virtues of matchpots, the range of colours is far greater than modelling paints. 

Before you go any further I would take five minutes to read the very useful article by Aidan Campbell recommended by Bill - Thanks for the link Bill.

 

Alrthough bare brick is fairly common in the north, French buildings in most regions are far more often cement rendered and then painted or in past times whitewashed than in Britain; the standard ranges probably supply a wide enough range of colours for your purpose (and always use matt never gloss) 

Unlike rolling stock (though that varied a lot more than many people realise) the colour of buildings varies enormously and if you walk into the French equivalent of B&Q or Wickes you'll find much the same range of colours as you would here.

 

You don't say what sort of kits you're using but those produced by MKD and in the past by Jouef were chosen from very generic prototypes. France does though have a generally wider climatic range than Britain and the use of colours in the south may be rather different from the north. A lot depends of course on the era and region so it's worth studying colour photos from the part of France you're modelling; an hour or so with Google should provide you with plenty of material.  

If you're modelling buildings in a village or small town it's also worth looking at the work of artists such as Monet or the other impressionists. A building may be a few blobs of paint but the colours will have been carefully observed. 

 

You say that you don't want to mix paints but colours straight out of the tin will probably be too intense for buildings and letting them down with a bit of white or grey will make them far more convincing. Generally colours in France seem to be rather more subdued than in Germany in any case.

 

You don't say whether it's railway or general buildings that you're concerned with but before corporate identities became important even railway buildings varied a great deal- I've never come across the PLM equivalent of GW stone.

 

 

*You may be surprised at how much of the average French modeller's supplies come from the likes of Wills and Slaters and most of them seem to use the same H0 scale track from Seaton as most British 00 modellers.

[rue_d_etropal]

I never touch oils these days, been using acrylics for years , as it is easier to clean brushes and it dries quicker so I can get job done a lot faster.  I keep the dregs from pot used to clean brushes for weathering, but it can get a bit smelly. Otherwise you are pouring money down the drain, quite literally.

Mixing your own is always best. No such thing as real colour for buildings as it varies so much.

I have taken this a stage further, by priming plastic with a matt grey acrylic(brush or Halfords aerosol) then have found even emulsion will stick. Plenty of basic colours available in cheap matchpots.

 

It should also be remembered that colour can vary depend on light. In the south where my French house is, there is so much light, it sometimes oozes out of the buildings. One reason the south is so popular with artists.

[SNCF stephen]

I have tried AMF87 paints and a few other brands here and there. The more expensive paints are worth the money if you are painting stock but the AMF87 paint I found only worked with the airbrush (lots of coats). 

 

If I am doing anything else then I tend to use acrylics or if it is scenery then I will use cheap paint from hobby craft. I was always frustrated with humbrol because they do a nice looking whitey yellow paint that looks perfect on the outside of the pot for the colour required but in reality it was far more yellow than the colour published on the outside. As such I ended up pouring a load of white paint into it to whiten it out.

[Andy Hayter]

Railcolor (AMF87) paints come in a variety of ranges;

airbrush

paint brush

aerosol

 

It is important to get the right one.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Agree with all of the above. For buildings, really no point in paying inflated prices for special "modellers" paints. To be honest, I have never been that convinced of their necessity for rolling stock either.

 

It would be useful to know which region of France we are looking at. But as already said, away from the North (quite a dark red brick) almost all railway buildings are rendered, apart from brick or stone quoins at the corners of the building and around doors and windows. The paint on the render varies from white (which soon dulls down to a pale grey) to some quite full cream shades/tones. On buildings that have not been repainted for many decades (e.g. goods sheds), the cream colour becomes quite brown. Debatable whether you should paint directly that colour or paint cream and then weather with powders/dry brush etc.

 

Timber goods sheds are quite commonplace in some regions. With time they become a silvery grey rather than brown.

[Fat Controller]

It would seem a bit extreme to spend money of paint for models of French buildings, when the natives don't do it on the prototype..Most seem to be painted after building, but after that, it seems to be only when a Brit moves in that it sees a paintbrush. A few years ago, we offered to paint the rather impressive steel and wrought iron gates of the courtyard belonging to our friends that manage our vines, which are currently a very faded grey. There were protests that it had been done 'recently' (i.e. after 1789 when the farm was built), and that we'd have to seek permission from the Mairie (this was the case during the immediate post-War period, apparently); for the moment, the project is in abeyance.

[billbedford]

Mad Brits, always expecting royalty to turn up.......

[ianp]

Thanks for those thoughts. Are there any publications that give a guide to the sorts of colours in which French railway buildings have been painted? My emerging layout will be situated (in my mind) somewhere in the South-Central, or South-West. Maybe the Languedoc-ish.

[Pacific231G]

Just find the websites for a few villages or towns in your area of interest and you should find most of what you need in terms of general colours for the Café de la Gare etc. Railway buildings are a bit more specific but if you look out the online catalogues for Sud Modelisme and a few others you should get some inspiration as they produce cast kits for many prototype buildings mainly PLM. I've just looked and for PLM station buildings they're using a pale bluey grey which I assume is researched but don;t know whether that's an SNCF colour or PLM some models have their woodwork in a pale green.

 

Doors and windows etc. probably use brighter colours now than in past eras. If you're in the Languedoc then roofs will be ceramic pantiles rather  than slate and for railway buildings the machine made variety.  

[Joseph_Pestell]

Thanks for those thoughts. Are there any publications that give a guide to the sorts of colours in which French railway buildings have been painted? My emerging layout will be situated (in my mind) somewhere in the South-Central, or South-West. Maybe the Languedoc-ish.

 

Best be a bit careful then about track layout.

 

Midi in particular was rather fond of the arrangement, also popular in Switzerland and Austria, of having a single-sided very low island platform (trottoir) between double-track main lines rather than having passengers crossing both tracks. Branch lines/single track main lines and even the double-track main lines tended to have the typical European layout of a double-ended goods siding adjacent to the station building so that the stationmaster could keep an eye on the goods shed.

 

That said, I can think of plenty of stations where the conventional platform either side of double-track arrangement is in place. Some of these may be rebuilds though when footbridges became more the norm.

 

Passengers were generally discouraged from leaving the waiting room and going onto platforms before their train was due. So you will not want your Preiser folk on the platform. I made the mistake of going onto one of these narrow islands before my train was due. Got a right buffeting when a long freight train went through at speed!

 

You have not mentioned era. If current-day, I am happy to take a few photos for you when I am next down there (March). But you may well find plenty of photos on Google Streetview which will give you what you need.

[ianp]

Thank you. As it happens, I have spent quite a bit of time in the past year browsing the internet and buying French railway model magazines, especially from LR Presse, so I have (I hope) a decent idea of what a half-credible layout should look like. However it won't pretend to regional prototypical accuracy, so I may give it a name like "Melange". I just want it to look like a small slice of French countryside with a decent railway going through it.

[rue_d_etropal]

One thing to consider is type of countryside. If it is flattern souther part of region then roofs are pantile normally, and colours can be brighter especially in sunshine. In more lumpy areas , weather is slightly cooler, and in my town there is a mixture of roof types. Drive 10 miles futher north and it is definitely slate roofs. Some buildings in my town have slate roofs. Have noticed it is quite often on churches(Norman influence after Simon de Montford took control) .

For doors and windows, gre and green are typical on older buildings. Pale blue more common now, but there are often restrictions on colour in some towns and villages. I suspect from what I have read elsewhere that white is relatively new as a colour.

I have taken loads of photos in my area, and have been considering putting an article together. Trouble is there are far too many interesting photos. Always find exceptions in building style, probably because someone wanted it that way.

[Andy Hayter]

The choice of slate versus tile will be determined by geology.  "Lumpy" areas in the Central Massif, frequently had metamorphosed sedimentary rocks (generally referred to a slate) due to the proximity of active volcanoes - apparently the last being active less than 6000 years ago.  The flat lands had no such local rock available, but often had clay that could be baked into tiles. 

 

The same is true for the building materials for walls - which is why N France is principally brick construction whereas other areas favour stone (of various origins).

 

This is actually not that much different to the UK at least pre-industrialisation era.  One difference perhaps being that as industrialisation progressed the movement of building materials by rail was perhaps more common than in France.  You therefore find UK slate roofs more widely as well as the Fenland (Peterborough) bricks. 

[rue_d_etropal]

It's far more complex, as some parts of the south , further west are brick, for example Toulouse and Albi. Lots of micro climates , which can often be identifiued by shape and type of roof. I think the slate roofs on some churches is actually more political than geological.Also some big mistakes such as the restoration of Carcasonne using slate on roofs, when it would have been almost certainly originally clay tiles, possibly wood in places.

There is a trend now to 'restore' old buildings by taking them back to the stone, but there was often a good reason for having walls cement rendered and that was because the stone was not very good quality. Marble is quarried in my area, and it is often used on buildings locally, even the pavements. For me rendered walls and shutters on indows, preferably with clay pantile low pitch roof, define France for me. Granted it is more typical of the south, but it is a pity many of the kits for buildings are more typical of the north. I used the Italeri plastic kits of Italian buildings as well as the North Aftrican building for my recent Île de Singe module in CM.