Ruabon to Barmouth

[Blobrick]

Can anyone tell me if formewr GWR Dukedog 90xx and Dean Goods 25xx locomotives worked over the Ruabon - Barmouth section during the Mid to late 1950s?. I know that both types were sheded at Croes Newydd, but I ve been unable to find any photographic evidence to confirm any workings

 

 

Many thanks

 

Blobrick

[Guest Phil]

Can anyone tell me if formewr GWR Dukedog 90xx and Dean Goods 25xx locomotives worked over the Ruabon - Barmouth section during the Mid to late 1950s?. I know that both types were sheded at Croes Newydd, but I ve been unable to find any photographic evidence to confirm any workings

 

Many thanks

Blobrick

 

Cambrian Railways 1859-1947 by CC Green doesn't really cover the period you requested, but there is a photo of 2572 leaving Barmouth Jn with the 6.15pm goods to Portmadoc. The train is coming off the branch from Dolgelley, but how far up the line the loco came from who knows. It might have been a Cambrian Coast train that stopped to shunt.

Not sure where the yard was at Morfa Mawddach. Date btw was 25.08.47

 

 

"With both safety valves blowing 4-4-0 Dukedog No 9014 pilots No 3210 gently round the Berwyn curve above the strikingly beautiful gorge of the (river) Dee 9.10 Paddington-Pwllheli".

 

The loco carries a smokebox numberplate and a small train headcode board so is clearly post 1948 but alas no date.

 

 

Of an earlier period "half cab" Pannier 1763 pilots Bulldog 3359 "Tregeagle" out of Bontnewydd with the 9 coach 1.15pm Barmouth-Chester in August 1934

 

 

You've probably got all the books on this route so I don't suppose this helps Blobrick. I'm fascinated by the Aberdares that worked over the route, a K's kit being my first and only whitemetal kit,which presumably got junked when I was still a spotty teenager. I must get over my 30 year fear of whitemetal kits which has elapsed since then !!!!

[Guest Phil]

Cambrian Coast Express (from the footplate series) by Stephen Austin has a couple of photos of Dukedogs on a 9.45am Whitchurch-Pwllheli / Aberystwyth. One shot shows the train departing Barmouth heading north behind 9014 in May 1955. Of course this could have been a loco change. The other undated shot shows the train arriving Barmouth behind 9008 and 2264.

[sn]

Both types certainly worked the route at this time. There is some old footage of a Dean Goods leaving Drys-y-Nant on a cattle train on the Pathe site. Believe it or not LNER 04's even worked occasionally as far as Corwen!!!!!!!!!

 

Heard a story from a signalman about his Father who was a signalman also at Glnydwrfrdy (That's not the right spelling but never mind !) who nearly got knocked off his feet during a token exchange when a pair of double headed Dukedogs came through at a hell of a pace.

[jamie92208]

This may not help your specific enquiry but I have my fathers diary from 1959 and this confirms that we travelled that route in August 59 going from Giggleswick to Dolgelly for a holiday. We went from Ruabon to Bala junction in both direction. (I have some very faint memories of GW engines, as well as the Lancaster Morecambe electrics, ffrom that journey). The locos that hauled us were 6348 with 4 coaches from Ruabon to Bala on the 10th and 6878 in the opposite direction on the 22nd. 2266 was seen at Bala Jct on the 22nd with 2255/64/86 at fairbourne on the 18th. I hope this is of some help. There are records of other locos seen at all the locations if you are interested.

 

Jamie Guest

[DavidBelcher]

Both types certainly worked the route at this time. There is some old footage of a Dean Goods leaving Drys-y-Nant on a cattle train on the Pathe site. Believe it or not LNER 04's even worked occasionally as far as Corwen!!!!!!!!!

 

Doesn't surprise me too much- after all, most GW lines in that part of Wales were route restriction Blue, and through goods traffic off the ex-GC lines around Wrexham sounds a distinct possibility.

 

David

[Guest Phil]

This may not help your specific enquiry but I have my fathers diary from 1959 and this confirms that we travelled that route in August 59 going from Giggleswick to Dolgelly for a holiday. We went from Ruabon to Bala junction in both direction. (I have some very faint memories of GW engines, as well as the Lancaster Morecambe electrics, ffrom that journey). The locos that hauled us were 6348 with 4 coaches from Ruabon to Bala on the 10th and 6878 in the opposite direction on the 22nd. 2266 was seen at Bala Jct on the 22nd with 2255/64/86 at fairbourne on the 18th. I hope this is of some help. There are records of other locos seen at all the locations if you are interested.

 

Jamie Guest

 

 

Hi Jamie

Thanks for the note. The Grange is very interesting as I've not seen photos of 68xx working that line.

 

Care to share any more notes ?

 

Thanks

[Karhedron]

I have been through my copy of the "The Llangollen line, Ruablon to Barmouth" and I have not found any pictures of Dean Goods or Dukedogs from any period. Plenty of 2251s, Manors, Moguls and tank engines as well as LMS and even old midland 3Fs. But neither of the classes you are after.

 

Sorry not to offer better news.

[Blobrick]

Hi everyone, I would just like to say a big thank you to everyone who has been kind enough to reply and provide so much information.

 

Kind regards

 

Blobrick

[sn]

I have been through my copy of the "The Llangollen line, Ruablon to Barmouth" and I have not found any pictures of Dean Goods or Dukedogs from any period. Plenty of 2251s, Manors, Moguls and tank engines as well as LMS and even old midland 3Fs. But neither of the classes you are after.

 

Sorry not to offer better news.

 

 

I've seen a pic on the internet somewhere of a Dukedog working a train on this line.

[jamie92208]

Hi Jamie

Thanks for the note. The Grange is very interesting as I've not seen photos of 68xx working that line.

 

Care to share any more notes ?

 

Thanks

The following were noted at the locations shown over the fortnight.

 

Ruabon 10-8-59

1660 0-6-0 PT

7414

6307

9669

5036

7442

8730

7915

6348 which hauled us to Bala.

42888

5072

6380

 

Bala Jct

3749

 

12-8-59 Towyn

2281

75033

 

18-8-59 Fairbourne

5541

4549

1255

2264

2286

6685

 

22-8-59

Dolgelly

7434

7307

7310 which hauled us to Ruabon with 3 coaches.

 

Bala Jct

7428

6353

6339

2266

 

Ruabon

6872

6878 which took us to Chester with 8 on.

5046

 

Wrexham

7440

7431

9610

41285

 

Thats it for the area you're interested in. The rest are Chester to Lancaster.

 

The diaries stretch from 1950 to the early 60's and are fascinating to me (born in 52) as they confirm that I was hauled over Stainmore (Aged 3) and which duchesses I saw on Shap when I was 7 along with the fact that my brother travelled the Ballachulish branch. I hope these jottings are of use to you.

 

Jamie

[sn]

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=46613

 

Dean Goods at end of this clip as mentioned above

[Unknown Warrior]

Just a thought the last Dean Goods was withdrawn May 1957(2538), The last five Dukedogs went in 1960: 9004 06/60; 9014 10/60; 9015 06/60 9017 (now at the Bleubell) 10/60; 9018 06/60. Only eight lasted after 1957.

[Nicktuk159]

This may not help your specific enquiry but I have my fathers diary from 1959 and this confirms that we travelled that route in August 59 going from Giggleswick to Dolgelly for a holiday. We went from Ruabon to Bala junction in both direction. (I have some very faint memories of GW engines, as well as the Lancaster Morecambe electrics, ffrom that journey). The locos that hauled us were 6348 with 4 coaches from Ruabon to Bala on the 10th and 6878 in the opposite direction on the 22nd. 2266 was seen at Bala Jct on the 22nd with 2255/64/86 at fairbourne on the 18th. I hope this is of some help. There are records of other locos seen at all the locations if you are interested.

 

Jamie Guest

 

I would suggest that the Grange came on at Ruabon as they were a RED classification and as such banned from use over the entire Ruabon - Barmouth Junction route.

 

By the late 1950s the Dukedogs were very much seasonal locomotives only coming out to play during the busy summer season and as such saw regular use assisting through trains over the Ruabon - Barmouth route.

 

I believe that actual push-pull working on the Dolgelley run ended when the use of GWR Auto-Trailers ceased. After that time, even when push-pull stock was used it was worked as hauled-stock. 5801 was a regular on this duty and out-shedded at Penmaenpool for that purpose. A 74xx was also common until replaced on a regular basis by Ivatt 2MTs - 80xxx and 82xxx BR standard tanks also saw use towards the end of services on the line.

 

Nick

[The Stationmaster]

Just a thought the last Dean Goods was withdrawn May 1957(2538), The last five Dukedogs went in 1960: 9004 06/60; 9014 10/60; 9015 06/60 9017 (now at the Bleubell) 10/60; 9018 06/60. Only eight lasted after 1957.

 

Recalling contemporary reports the only ones which worked during the summer of 1960 were 9017 and, possibly, 9014 (but only for a short while). Assisted by my dad I did a bit of chasing after them when we were on holiday in the area that summer and copped 9017 on shed at Aberystwyth; the shed staff there reckoned that 9014 was in store.

 

Highlight of the holiday was having 9017 assist our homebound train from Dovey Jcn to Talerddig.

[petethemole]

In early august 1961, aged 13, I travelled from London to Pwllhelli via Ruabon and Barmouth. Our party's through coaches were detached from a Paddington - Chester/Birkenhead train at Ruabon and worked down to wherever the loco change took place (Dovey Jct or Barmouth Jct, I can't remember) double headed. I'm convinced that my memory is correct that one of the locos was Dukedog 9017. I remember it caused some excitement among the spotters in our party. I've read somewhere, some years ago now, possibly in a magazine, that 9017 was taken out of store at Oswestry for the summer peak in 1961. I probably still have the mag, but the idea of searching 45 years worth of Railway Mag is too daunting. Does anybody have any knowledge of this? Was anybody on that train (to PPSC 'A' camp, 1961)?

Pete

[PMP99]

 

I believe that actual push-pull working on the Dolgelley run ended when the use of GWR Auto-Trailers ceased. After that time, even when push-pull stock was used it was worked as hauled-stock. 5801 was a regular on this duty and out-shedded at Penmaenpool for that purpose. A 74xx was also common until replaced on a regular basis by Ivatt 2MTs - 80xxx and 82xxx BR standard tanks also saw use towards the end of services on the line.

 

Nick

 

Can anyone advise which year (roughly) the actual push-pull working ended?

 

Thanks

[StaffsOatcake]

58xx weren't fitted with auto train gear. So they ran round at Barmouth and Dolgellau. usually running into the bay on the south side of the road at Barmouth

[Donw]

Looking through my books I find few pictures beyond Dogelley. Most trains shown as running through seem to be pulled by the Moguls. perhaps the lighter Dean goods and Dukedogs were more useful on the coast lines. Steam on the Cambrian shows 5801 on the Dogelley shuttle in 1957 still with GWR visible on the sides

Donw

[Jaakko]

Trains Illustrated Nov '53: "A visitor this summer to North Wales writes that trains south and north of Barmouth by the coastal lines were in the hands of Stand. Class 2MT 2-6-0s, "9000" Class 4-4-0s, "4500" Class 2-6-2 tanks and occasionally an ex-Cambrian 0-6-0. All these classes, with the exception of the Cambrians, were seen together in pairs or paired with an engine of another class on both passenger and goods trains. Loads were usually four or five corridor coaches and only on the through trains to the Midlands and Paddington were heavier formations seen, the highest being nine. On the Barmouth-Ruabon trains numerous "5300" Class 2-6-0s were seen. together with several Manors, and on occasion the Stand. Class 2MTs were utilised. Little doubleheading was seen on this route and the Manors did not appear between Barmout and Machynlleth, although one was observed east of the latter place. One push and pull service operated from Barmout to Dolgelly and back, worked by a "1400" Class 0-4-2 tank; No. 1416 (84J) was usually in this duty. Once a day, Mondays to Fridays, one of the Ivatt Class 2MT 2-6-0s recently moved to Rhyl appeared on the Coronation Land Tour train. The Stand. Class 2MTs, the "9000s", "4500" tanks, and the ex-Cambrian locomotives were in the main shedded at Machynlleth and the Manors were from Croes Newydd, Shrewsbury and Wellington. Trains and engines worked through from Machynlleth to Pwllheli and those from the Midlands via Ruabon to Pwllheli changed engines at Barmouth. The new Standards seemed to be well on top of their work, but in filthy condition for so new a class. Timekeeping on the local trains was very good, but lond distance trains suffered badly."

 

Trains Illustrated Feb '54: "New 4MT 4-6-0s Nos. 75020/3 are working regularly between Oswestry and Aberystwyth and more of the type are promised on the mid-Wales line. They appear to lose time and are very "light on their feet" in contrast to the Manors. The new arrivals have not ventured on to the coast section between Machynlleth and Pwllheli, where the stand. 2MT 2-6-0s are most in evidence; the latter are also employed on banking duties from Machynlleth up to Talerddig, and one usually powers the midday stopping train from Aberystwyth to Welshpool. Manors and "63XX" 2-6-0s, though not used on regular turns over the coast line, sometimes work through to Tonfannau on troop specials, whereas they used to be replaced at Machynlleth by 2MT 2-6-9s, "45XX" Class 2-6-2 tanks, "2251" Class 0-6-0s or "9000" Class 4-4-0s."

 

Trains Illustrated Sept '59: "A new interchange working between Tyseley and Machynlleth depots was introduced this summer. The Saturday 8.5 a.m. Birmingham-Barmouth and 1.30 p.m. in the reverse direction were powered by a 2-6-0 or Manor from Tyseley in one direction and Machynlleth in the other, each spending a week at its destination before returning home the following Saturday. The Saturday down "Cambrian Coast Express" has been regularly doubleheaded beyond Wolverhampton, its train engine, usually Manor No. 7817 (84J) after working the 7.20 a.m. Pwllheli-Paddington between Ruabon and Wolverhampton, being assisted by a 2-6-0 from a variety of depots. On several Saturdays in the first half of the summer the 8.35 a.m. Liverpool-Penzance was worked from Shrewsbury to Bristol by a Weymouth stand. Class "5" 4-6-0; No. 73017 was engaged on this duty on July 4."

 

Cheers

 

Jaakko