North Cranford

[St Enodoc]

A little "taster" of motive power developments at NC:  

 

 

 

full story to follow, but this 97XX is headed over for a "rework":

 

The body will hopefully be transplanted onto a Bachmann 57XX chassis, which in real life had the same dimensions/wheel base etc.

 

The question is: "How much did K's adjust their model to fit the available RTR chassis of the day (late 60s early 70s).   Hopefully by not too much.  If the transplant is successful, I have a Lenz Standard chip allocated to this project.

 

A million thanks to Phil "Mallard" for his assistance and willingness to part with this.

 

Not often modelled due to their very limited geographic spread, and small class size.  Perfect for NC tho.

 

 

 

For the un-initiated, this is a Class 97XX condensing pannier, built as close cousins to the 57XX/87XX panniers, and worked the London Underground lines to and from Faringdon (for Smithfield market).

 

Class numbers were only just into double figures, and all based in West London.  So zero chance of this ever becoming available in RTR.

Yeah, right...

[Mallard60022]

....hastily points out that I glued this 'together' in about 1973 and I was not really very 'experienced' then as you can see. I do hope Tinker can rehash it to look like a locomotive instead of this rather weird lump.

Amazing what I've got hiding in the loft.

P 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Mallard60022

[M.I.B]

The Duck need make no excuses for something he created in 1973.  His brass kit building prowess is very well recognized these days, and I am fortunate to have a commission folded and joined together by him, awaiting paint and finishing.

 

 

 

Modelmaster plates for 9703 are about to be ordered along with a set of plates for 4809............

 

Before eagle eyed readers with long memories quote me on my lack of need for small tank engines and auto-coaches, post WW2, 4809 was an oil burning 28XX and one of two shedded at OOC.  These were the last two oil burners converted back to coal in 1949.

 

I have already renumbered the green 28XX (Page 3 Post #68) : (the evilBay BR black 28XX which arrived with tan paint daubed all over it, and displayed half finished still with tan painted rods).  That should have been sufficient work on this model, but prompted by the news that Shapeways have produced a "drop in" oil tank for 28XXs.................(see "GWR Oil Burners" post)........so my 2844 becomes what was 2845 which then became 4809.

 

Before I press send on the plates order I do need to go into the projects box in the loft and see whether I have a set of plates for the Bachmann 9400 when it arrives.  I think I already bought them a long time ago on an order to Narrow Planet, but too long for my memory to be accurate.  Perhaps I didn't.  If I have:  "well done me".  If I haven't I will order them and save on some postage.

 

I hope that you are all happy and healthy.

Edited August 30, 2018 by M.I.B

[The Fatadder]

Looking forward to seeing how you get on with the 28xx oil conversion, I had originally intended to rebuild one of mine as an oil loco but in the end just changed its identity to a standard Laira machine.  Now that 3d printed oil tank is available I am rethinking between buying another loco or renumbering.   

 

I already have a 2800, 3800, 4700 and a ex WD Austerity, along with two heavy tanks,  Adding another heavy freight loco will be overkill I think, so renumbering my renumbered loco probably makes the most sensible approach....

[M.I.B]

We are in the same boat - I couldn't justify another heavy freight loco for a couple of reasons.

 

This may also spur me onto finishing my Haberfield Hall as an oil burner.  The tank was made from scratch but I had neither the skills nor reference material to cover the vents and "attachments" to the tank.  

 

Since than I have collected/copied photos and the Shapeways tank will assist as well, even though its for the smaller tender.

 

The small tender tanks and larger tender tanks were very different in terms of shape and also filling method:  4000 gallon units were top filled through a manlid, and the 3500s were filled using a hose connection somewhere between the wheel sets.

Edited August 30, 2018 by M.I.B

[M.I.B]

Shapeways have sent the oil tank and it is very sharp and crisp.  Sadly the connecting pipe, which I believe is the filler pipe, is missing.

 

The 28XX I will convert is one with the necessary curved frame and  outside steam pipes: Hornby have offered both versions at some point in their catalogue, as well as the Collett 2884s,  so please beware of this.

[M.I.B]

81 E's excellent Shapeways 3D printed oil tank for the small tender is a nice item,  Thank you for sharing the end product with the remainder of us.

 

Anyone fancy doing the tank for the 4000 gal tenders?

 

 

However be careful if you wish to purchase this item from Shapeways :  the tank and the fill pipe are two separate items and it's not exactly clear on their order page.

 

I have no issues with buying it as 2 items, but now I need to pay the postage again  

[M.I.B]

 At last a very brief modelling session last night - about 20 minutes worth if I discount the time spent ferreting in the loft.  Please accept apologies for rushed phone pictures.

 

 

The 9700 was carefully prised apart and a venerable Triang/Hornby chassis exposed.  

 

 

Bit bemused as this seems to have a factory Dublo coupling.  Not an expert about this era of RTR history so I shall worry no more.

 

 

 

A Bachmann 5700 was unearthed and wheel plan compared to the 9700:

 

 

So a 5700 chassis won't slip under the 9700 body.  

 

 

 

Plan B will now be brought into action:

 

1.  Get chassis/motor operational.

2.  Consider if a small chip will fit in the bunker............

 

 

On the 9th of September, I hope that you are all happy and healthy.

[M.I.B]

Bit quiet in the office today, so a period spent googling..........

 

The 9700 is a K's Bodyline kit.     The 8700 from Bachmann will not fit under it, however searching threw up a Shapeways product designed by Street Level Models, which is intended for the "Bachmann 8750 chassis".   This is the same chassis as the 5700 from Bachmann.

 

And so the thought of using the Bachmann 5700 has re entered my head:  The 9700 only had one splasher (front wheel set):  could the 8700 chassis be so placed under the body so as to accommodate the front wheel set, and the other two just left as Bachmann designed..  might look OK or may look absurd.

 

I will dig them out of the cupboard again tonight and have a ponder.

Edited September 11, 2018 by M.I.B

[M.I.B]

I have used Jim Champ's excellent tank engine drawings, courtesy of the GWR Modelling site.

 

I can't reproduce what I have done on here without breaching copyright, but using Jim's excellent 9700 and  8750/5700 drawings, I have overlaid them one above the other on a sheet of A4.  The "key" mechanical components of the 9700 and 8750 line up , which they should, being developed from the same "base stock":    chimney, dome, safety valve cover........and axles.

 

So as eluded to in my first 9700 post a week or so ago, I return to the thought that the Bachmann 8700 chassis is the one to use, suitably modified to fit the first axle in the one and only set of splashers.    

 

I now have no doubt that K's engineered their kit to fit the (then) common Triang 0-6-0 chassis as that would have been a selling point:  no need to build a complicated chassis and gearbox and motor assembly.

 

 

The real 5700s and 9700s had a 7'3 and 8'3" axle spacing (centre to centre) and the Triang chassis has a much more pronounced difference between the front to centre set and the centre to rear set.

 

So I will definitely re-visit using the 5700 chassis tonight.

Edited September 11, 2018 by M.I.B

[M.I.B]

Two nights in a row where I had 15 minutes..............

 

So the Bachmann 5700 was undressed, the body parts of the 9700 were held together with BluTak..............

 

 

And the chassis immediately looks better - not just  because the huge Triang wheels have gone, but mainly due to the axle spacing, and flanges on the centre wheels.

 

(sorry if the body looks like it's just been re-railed after a trip down an embankment)

 

But it's not that simple:   the Bachmann chassis is basically a huge traction weight which wraps around the motor.  Clever design, but it really gets in the way under the 9700 shell, to the point where it doesn't fit.

 

So I will have another look at either trimming away at the weight, or perhaps using the latest Hornby equivalent.

[Mallard60022]

Such fun........?

P

[M.I.B]

If it was easy we probably wouldn't do it Phil........

 

Love things like this.

[M.I.B]

Change of plan:  I have sacrificed some detail (brake rodding) but I have a chassis that will fit 9701, which comes with a DCC chip fitted, and has sufficient traction weight without having to modify it..........

 

A chance find of a very recent unused 2721"open cab" pannier sold by someone who has opened up and carved out the items in the "Western Master" boxed set.   Hence why this (often) venerable model is DCC fitted and has flanged centre wheels.    It stopped being on sale some time ago as an individual item, but lived on a little later in this set.

Edited October 7, 2018 by M.I.B

[Castle]

Hi Tinker,

 

When my mate and I did his condensing Pannier, we took the Bachmann body off the chassis and trimmed it down so that just the front splashers and the smokebox front panel was left. Dremel and a thin slitting disc were the weapons of choice. Corresponding cuts were then made to the K’s body and Robert was our mother’s brother! We did use an 8750 Class model as the basis though... Pictures of the result are on Little Didcot somewhere.

 

I hope this helps!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[M.I.B]

Thanks Drew.  I will keep searching for another body and try the Bachmann route next time.

[M.I.B]

 We did use an 8750 Class model as the basis though... Pictures of the result are on Little Didcot somewhere.

 

 

Castle

 

I finally sold some car parts which have been on Evil bay for a while, and that has covered 97+% of the cost of a boxed used 8750.   So I have one on the way.

 

I will do a side by side comparison.  I don't need another 57XX series pannier and I am way too late for a 27XX series pannier, so I have just better pray that another 97XX body turns up somewhere.

 

 

 

That's put the price of 97XXs up by 500%...................  never when I am selling and always when I am buying.

Edited September 19, 2018 by M.I.B

[The Fatadder]

Re the 2721 Class a case of none left in the London area?

 

One day I want to build a Finney kit for one (who’s number escapes me) that was shedded at Newton Abbot in 47 painted in wartime black

[M.I.B]

None left in the area in the late 40s Rich.

 

And I don't have a chassis for it if it becomes the chassis for 9701.    There's an option to scratch build a chassis of sorts and cover it in a tarp to sit at the end of a road at the shed, but, I already have a sand van and a road van and some Airfix kit tenders to use as "rolling scenery".

 

There's always a couple of broken ones on Ebay - so I will sell the body on and that will bring some sunshine to someone, and some schekels in the pot for some more chips.

Edited September 19, 2018 by M.I.B

[M.I.B]

I will correct myself:    there were 2 x 2721s left in the London Division in Dec 47.

 

2757 and 2790 were allocated just down the road at Sarf-all.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmm.  Much as I am not a huge fan of pannier motive power, it is a lovely model.   And to have a Victorian engine still grafting nearly 50 years later, alongside big Counties, and 94XXs is incredibly tempting to retain........

 

I will see what the fit/work required is like when the 8750 turns up.

 

How many times have I said "no more engines"......?

[M.I.B]

I am just back from France.  A very moving and beautiful trip on the trusty Indian motorcycle.

 

Photos etc to follow later this week - I have to pack and go somewhere dusty in the next day or so.

 

But 100 years ago today, Private (Gunner) William Crutchfield of Cranford, 19 years of age, gave his life for the Empire when his tank was struck by enemy shellfire.  

 

I went to thank him, and all of his comrades.

 

And to leave him a bottle of 15 year old single malt.

 

He was my great great Uncle.

 

 

 

His headstone reads:  "Never shall his memory fade".

Edited October 1, 2018 by M.I.B

[M.I.B]

Long time followers of NC will remember that my great great uncle was born and bred in Cranford, and his family lived in the very famous/ infamous  "Red House" (demolished in 2008).

 

A very long time ago I promised that I would go and visit the graves of both of my relatives who died fighting for their country.  There is one other fallen relative out there, but he is in a submarine and so visiting to pay my respects is not possible.

 

I have been to El Alamein where Great Uncle Russell died in a notorious action involving a lack of communication, some very bitter and hardened Germans, friendly artillery fire and some very war scarred Jocks stuck in no-mans' land toughing it out to the last man.  

 

On the 100th anniversary of William's death, I was present at his graveside.  He lies with 300 or so British and Australian soldiers who died in the last days of WW1.  His tank was hit by German artillery.  He was 19 years old.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2018 by M.I.B

[Clearwater]

I made a similar pilgrimage to my great grandfather’s grave in Northen France. He was 35 or so and left five children under 10. As part of my preparation for my trip, I visited the regimental museum for the Royal Warwicks. As I’d emailed in advance, the archivist had prepared the relevant diaries and casualty records for me to view. Sadly, we couldn’t find his service record card and it is assumed it was one of those lost in WW2 bombing. Consequently, we don’t know when he (I assume) conscripted. His regiment was the 1/6th Warwicks and he’d been killed a few days after they went back into the line in March 1917. We spent a bit of time going through the diary and casualty book which is arranged both alphabetically and by date of fall. The regiment went over the top on 1/7/16. One of the most sobering documents I’ve ever seen as page after page after page of casualties are listed. Was my great grandfather there that day?

 

The answer is almost certainly not. His regiment number, I was told, was not of the pre war type and he was one of the first with his type of serial number to fall. The interpretation was therefore that as the regiment was remustered in the autumn of 1916, that he’d joined then. Since learning that, it’s struck me that the consequences of the Somme weren’t just felt on the fateful first day but for a long while after as new conscripts (I doubt a 35 year old man with 5 small children rushed to join up somehow) replaces those that fell.

 

My great grandfather is buried in a small cemetery typical of northern France. One of those ones where as you stand at the gate, you can see the next one. It’s also by a TGV rail line. A horrific war and one almost completely out of comprehension in today’s sanitised world.

 

David

[M.I.B]

Thank you David.

 

We have to make sure that they will always be remembered and their sacrifice appreciated.

[M.I.B]

An outbreak of modelling!!!!!   10 minutes worth!!!!!

 

But when there is so little time and lots of enthusiasm, getting 10 minutes in feels great.  I had such a buzz when I was done - but hardly a scratch build in brass.........

 

In one of my GWR wagon books is a photo of a 6 wheel  milk tank branded "CWS".  The solebar is branded "GW"

 

I have the Lima version of this but branded for BR(W) I believe.  I also needed a 6 wheel milk for a repaint and as it's going to be a static model, the Lima wheels weren't  too much of an issue.  So the plan was to get hold of the cheapest Hornby or Dapol offering on Ebay, bearing the "GW" logo, and do a chassis swap.

 

Two weeks later, and a cheap slightly scratched blue Hornby "United Dairies Tank 62" was in my possession.  

 

Long term browsers of this post will know that early on (Page 1 or 2) shows an exercise in chassis swaps on two pairs of Hornby milk tankers.  I have recently become aware that all 6 wheel tankers come from the same moulds, so almost everything is interchangeable, regardless of the name on the box (Hornby, Dapol,Lima).  Hence why this was such a quick job.   The only difference across the manufacturers:  the screw that holds the top of the tank to the bottom, and centres them both on the chassis.  So  if you are swapping, retain the screw with the tank not the chassis.

 

 

Here's the result.  I could have just re lettered the sole bar, but I have ended up with the tank I want, on a correctly logo'd chassis, with better wheels.   Weathering will happen when I have more time. The other tank is already repainted and off to a new home as a static exhibit.

 

 

 

The lettering on the CWS tank is a little "squint"  - your eyes and my photo aren't poor.   This printing error will be hidden slightly with some airbrushed "grot".

Edited November 23, 2018 by M.I.B