14 foot Mineral wagon

[relaxinghobby]

Since I'm using a mixture of bought in kit parts from Cambrian and a some homemade parts to make a new hybrid kit I've put this build story in Kit building and Scratch building.

Back dating a pre-grouping wagon
As you go back in history of our railways the goods wagons tended to be smaller, or as you go forward in time they got bigger and the models of coal wagons in the grouping years the most common size was 12 ton. Turn of the 20th century ones, the sort of wagon kit Cambrian do are for 10 ton sizes, I wanted to model something older and smaller.

The 14 foot long 8 ton capacity coal wagon.

In 4mm scale a good starting point is a Cambrian kit for a 1 plank 15 foot Gloucester type wagon C60 to get it chassis, I had to take out 4mm from each side to cut the wheel base down to 8 foot. 


P57

You can see the vertical join in the wagon frame. I prefer to assemble the two side to a thin piece of plasticard ( 20 thou or 0.2 mm ) and get the sides stuck on and a free rolling sub-unit before I glue it to the body. You can see on the left hand axle box where I was opening out the bearing hole out to 2 mm and the drill poked through. Here you can see the end of the brass bearing cheekily peeks out there.


Getting 4 sides and a floor glued together at right angles to each other and the floor level I find to be very difficult and often have to redo it.

P58

A thickness of card board is used as a spacer to hold the floor up a fraction of a mm until the glue sets.

59

The end is a leftover from an other kit, the floor is a spare as I ruin the Cambrian kit floor by trimming it down so it was too narrow, The black bottom and white top where added to the end a couple of days ago to give time for the glue to set then the top can be filed to shape. Look on the left hand nearest corner I trimmed the grey plastic a little too much and had to add a slither of plastic back to widen it this corner may give me trouble yet.

P51

The side marked out on a sheet of 30 thou plastic ( 0.75 mm ) using the point of a sharp knife the the lines deepen by running a blunt needle pointed scraper along them making a V groove that will show up as plank detail when the wagon is painted.

Edited February 25, 2015 by relaxinghobby

[relaxinghobby]

 

I've made a start to add strapping detail from a Mainly Trains etch.

 

 

My coupling mounting method; I build little towers of plasticard, layering up the little rectangles. The burs that are raised along the edges when they are sanded off so that they stack evenly, fine adjustment of height is by selecting different thicknesses. My height setting gauge is that bit of wood which when set on the rail tops is just the right height for the front top edge of the Bachmann couplings.

 

 

 

I thought this was going to be a very small wagon looking a the drawing, but not so really, here it is sandwiched between a Cambrian models early twentieth century 10 ton coal wagon and a Slater's Midland Railway open wagon.

 

 

[macgeordie]

An interesting little project which is looking good. With regards to the couplings, I used to do a similar thing with my plastic kitbuilds, but I glued an NEM box which comes with the coupling to the pile of plasticard (often, one piece of 60 thou was all that was needed) so I could change the couplings to Kadees if I wanted to use them in a train which was to be shunted in the yard. I believe the nominal height for the coupling is 8mm from the rail to the top surface of the coupling.

 

As has been noted on the forum numerous times, the plastic used for the couplings is not always easy to glue, but I have found if you score the two parts with a scalpel first to give a key for the glue, a little drop of Evo-Stik impact works every time. I am still using wagons I modified 10 years ago and none of the couplings have fallen off.

 

Ian

[Nelson Jackson]

Lovely work on that wagon, so neatly done as well

[relaxinghobby]

Just a sketch of the wagon. I can not give a reference as to which book  I got the original drawing from.

I just have a photo copy of a page from it. I did not write down the title of the book.

It was a history of the coal wagon and it's use going back to the year dot. I think it had a red cover.

 

 

Some how I've made my dumb buffers a bit shorter than the drawings.

I have manage a bit more work on the brake gear cutting doen that which came with the original chassis kit.

 

 

 

[relaxinghobby]

 

Wagon are brakes on, a reworking of the original Cambrian kit parts cut down and straightened out. Given a few days for the glue to dry on the modifications before being fitted to the wagon. Brakes on one side only as this was a minimal expense private owner wagon.

 

Progressing towards the finish, mostly just adding surface details, keep going until I arrive at a sort of surface texture that is rich enough to satisfy the eye. In practice this means gluing on a series of little plastic rectangles and squares to represent fittings that would appear on the full size wagon. Some of which you can only guess at their function.

 

Wait until there is an interesting TV show or radio play as this can become tedious, any way it has to be stretched over several sessions to allow the glue to set and it is safe to handle the model without disturbing those delicate little plastic bits that you have so carefully placed there.

 

A point of a knife is useful for placing objects onto a tiny blobs of glue and I prefer the Revell glue in the needle dropper dispenser as the glue ( Contacta Professional ) is thicker than liquid cement and slightly gap filling.

 

For metal parts I used super glue which is difficult to apply in tiny quantities, did I stick my fingers to anything, or did I not? A glance at an exciting moment on the TV film can lead to touching a spare spec of super glue and so disaster. I have a tube of super-glue unsticker in the fridge, it came from the glue rack at Wilkinson’s. I use the method of depositing a small blob of S.G. on a piece of scrap card or plastic bag and then transferring an even smaller spec to the model on the end of a piece of wire.

 

 

You can keep going adding smaller and smaller details until your patience runs out or the you reach the limit of your eyesight. But don't over do it, when the model is painted and running most of this will not be noticeable. We are just getting enough surface detail to satisfy the eye as the wagon trundles past on the track. As an aid to seeing bits as I glue them on I used plastic of contrasting colours. A good source of very thin plastic are the vacuum moulded tops of take away coffee cups. In the illustational picture you can see the rivet head squares cut from a red lid.

 

Seeing the underside reminds me I have to add the all imported ballast weight to ensure this wagon will run well and stay on the track.

Edited April 6, 2015 by relaxinghobby

[Krusty]

Just a sketch of the wagon. I can not give a reference as to which book  I got the original drawing from.

I just have a photo copy of a page from it. I did not write down the title of the book.

It was a history of the coal wagon and it's use going back to the year dot. I think it had a red cover.

 

 It looks like the drawings on page 28 of Len Tavender's Coal Trade Wagons, self published back in 1991. It had a white cover with a red spine. Lovely collection of drawings.

[ThePurplePrimer]

I am enjoying this build

 

Looking forward to seeing it painted

[relaxinghobby]

Painting... maybe black or very dark grey, I've found a website (www.brightonlocoworks.co.uk/) that shows some pictures of the LBSCR loco sheds with

a very grainy picture of loco coal wagons labelled BOOTH BROTHERS EASTWOOD. I might use that as my pattern.

[Mike 84C]

Just a thought to save those stuck fingers. I use a darning needle, first I cut the eye in half then stick the pointy end in a wine bottle cork. Put a blob of super glue on something like a bottle top and pick up a small amount in the vee of the cut needle. Hope this does"nt sound as if my modelling is surrounded by alcohol but the little tool works for me,hic!

      Mike

[Mike 84C]

Sorry, I do rather like the wagon but your posts are always very readable!

 Mike

[relaxinghobby]

Thanks for the advice on super glue handling, I usually put a blob on some polythene or cardboard and transfer an even smaller bit to the work piece on the end of a wire but the wire gradually builds up layers of dried glue. Moving the tiny pieces of detail around to get them into the correct place is when I'm tempted to prod them with my finger and sometimes that's when I get stuck.

 

First coat of paint

Desperate to make progress since it's well over a week since I last did any work on this model, why is it taking so long it's only a wagon? I grabbed the first tin of dark paint for an undercoat and it turn out to be a gloss brown. Well it kills the white.

I still can't decide either make the overall colour black or dark red. Looking a t the photo I've just noticed the wagon floor has an uneven plank effect, surprising as the floor is from an old Ian Kirk kit, I did not think they made such subtle things then.

Some of my time has been diverted by the grey wagon, a Cambrian kit for the Cambrian Railways 4 plank open goods wagon, it comes with an etch for a tarpaulin support bar. On the same page as the drawing for the 14 foot dumb buffered raised end wagon, is a drawing for a 4 plank square ended wagon, so I've started to convert this kit to that, basically all it needs is to scrap off the diagonal strapping. And convert the sole bars to dumb buffers to back date it.

 

 

 

Just noticed looking at the enlargement photo the left hand corner under the elastic band needs redoing.

 

Yes I agree the ideas come from Len Tavender's Coal Trade Wagons, a book of studies of scale drawings showing the history or coal wagons.

Edited April 20, 2015 by relaxinghobby

[PeterR]

Hi,

 

I can lay down the nuts (the nuts were outward as then loose/missing ones could be seen and theinside of then wagon was almost smooth) on the corner pieces, made from a sliver of .010 cut to a square (10 or so at a time) and lifted on the end of a fine brush, after depositing a tiny amount of glue in the intended location (that will grab the tiny square off the brush), which should have sufficient liquid glue left (Humbrol/Limolene/or Mek Pak.

 

They can be 'teased' a small distance with the point of a scalpel if required.

 

Using the above glues are easier than super glue I find and have  less smell, super glue being very strong.

 

 

an NBR fixed side open with added nuts - also note the side knees on the inside which has the assorted strapping fitted as well.

 

 

 

 

Here are the nuts before fitting - they are the tiny black dots. The brush I use is a worn one but still with straight hairs, and having been dipped in the liquid glue, gently picks them up. The two curved black item are the strip from which they are cut.

 

 

 

 

A final one - a NBR van with the first layer of paint, with a full complement of tiny black .010 plasticard squares, they are cut off a piece 1" wide, and when cut off with a scalpel the strip should curve slightly. Straighten it out and cut the strip into squares - only 10 - 15 at a time, with a curved blade scalpel - using that instead of  straight blade ensures that less pressure can be used (try to push and slide the knife blade) and they stay put instead of disappearing en route to the floor!

 

They are cut on a small polythene tray which is ancient! It came from some baby soft  wipes ( the top of which is a solid soft plastic - mine came from Asda but all supermarkets should have them) when my children were young: they are now 40 or so, unfortunately one (my son) has just died from pancreatic cancer alas; that is going to take some time to get over. 

 

Yours Peter.

Edited April 21, 2015 by PeterR

[relaxinghobby]

Condolences PeterR about your son, we all seem to have illnesses in our families at one time or another.

 

Thank you for your input in this thread about detailing wagons it all helps to show what can been done with simple ingredients

and a little bit of patience, especially your NBR van.

Edited April 25, 2015 by relaxinghobby

[relaxinghobby]

 

Working on converting the grey wagon into a dumb buffer. Extending the sole bars with some 4mm strip, I don't have any Evergreen strip left, their 4 x 1 mm is ideal for wagon chassis. So I've made my own from a sheet of 1mm plasticard, cutting it carefully and then sanding the corners square. It's nearly as good as Evergreen, It will do for an old wagon and anyway have you seen the price of a few strips of Evergreen plastic ?

 

 

 

EEK! The close up photo shows a great gap on the corner from when I pulled off the wonky side and re-glued it, I'll have to repair that corner, soak it with a bit of glue then squeeze that gap closed.

 

Cut away the ends of the buffer beam to make room for the longer sole bars come dumb buffers.

 

[PeterR]

Additional to my last post  -  

 

I was in the shop called 'The Works' ( link  http://www.theworks.co.uk/p/paint-brushes/nylon-detail-brush---pack-of-4/5052089006096)and found some 'Nylon detail brushed at £2.00 for 4 - the finest (10/0) is very good for picking up the nuts for the outside of of the wagons.

 

 

Here is a quick photo of the rear of the pack, with the 10/1 brush on the left of the pack, at the back is a NBR 4 plank wagon with a centre drop door. 

 

 

I have been using 'Limonene, which has a slower rate of drying than Mek, or the Humbrol 'thin' cement, you have to be careful when handling the model (till it dries) and the 10/0 is very good with it. It also as a nice smell!   It can be bought on the web, in 250Ml bottles. 

 

 

The drawing for the NBR wagon is in the book 'LNER Wagons Vol3', by Peter Tatlow - Vol 3 covers the NBR & the GNSR - not all the wagon diagrams, but a good selection, The book has 185 pages and a good number of drawings.

 

Finally the (ancient) trays that I use for cutting the strips into squares have a modern version, which are available from Boots and called 'Cleaning Wipes' with 30 in a packet - the top flap entrance to the pack is the part wanted;the tray is 2.25" x 1.5" roughly in size and will do for the cutting of the tiny squares.

 

Yours Peter.

Edited May 3, 2015 by PeterR

[57xx]

I used the same technique for making nuts after reading about it in "The 4mm Coal Wagon", although I used white strip which made it hard to see where I was positioning them. One tip for cutting, use a piece of paxolin and run some mekpak on the strip to hold it in place while you cut it.

[relaxinghobby]

 

I fancy this wagon to be red so a coat of red acrylic toned down by mixing a bit of dull yellow ochre has been applied.

A bit unevenly as it shown in the picture, not a problem as the wagon will be finished in a weathered state but it does

show how hard it can be to get an even coating of some colours.

 

 

 

The next problem is the lettering. Based on a very fuzzy blow up of a picture of some wagons in Brighton Loco Works.

This wagon is very small and requires correspondingly small lettering which I can't find so far as transfers. I guess that the

Booth Brothers of Eastwood in the Nottinghamshire Coal Fields where suppliers of loco coal to the Brighton Rly. so they

can supply some coal to my railway too.

 

Here is a scheme for the lettering, the xxx are probably the tonnage and tare, they are unclear in the photo.

 

found at http://www.brightonlocoworks.co.uk/resources/chapter_4_photos/works%20old%20c.jpg

[PeterR]

Hi

 

The HMRS sell some transfers at 1.3mm deep both plain or black shaded, they are down the bottom of their list at -   http://www.hmrs.org.uk/transfers/list.php

 

Yours Peter.

[relaxinghobby]

 

Sign writing and no decals

 

I've been putting it off for ages, the lettering of the wagon sides.

My pattern is from a blow-up of a picture from Brightonlocoworks.co.uk it shows some coal wagons, probably loco coal supplied from the Nottingham coal fields. They appear to be dumb buffered and raised ends like my model.

 

 

I've been trying to revive my old Rotring graphic pen, which was capable of very fine work, but after several weeks of soaking in solvent it still does not work so I've dug out an even older technology, an old steel nib dip pen, but using the white acrylic Rotring ink.

It writes well onto the acrylic red paint of the wagon sides, but controlling the thickness of the line is harder.

 

First I practised my lines on a piece of black paper, marked out with a rectangle the same size as the wagon, 13 mm X 56 mm. Then with my hand resting on a book the same thickness as the wagon.

I went ahead and wrote the letters on the wagon sides. Slightly different for each side.

 

 

[wagonman]

 

I fancy this wagon to be red so a coat of red acrylic toned down by mixing a bit of dull yellow ochre has been applied.

A bit unevenly as it shown in the picture, not a problem as the wagon will be finished in a weathered state but it does

show how hard it can be to get an even coating of some colours.

 

P5070438.JPG

 

 

The next problem is the lettering. Based on a very fuzzy blow up of a picture of some wagons in Brighton Loco Works.

This wagon is very small and requires correspondingly small lettering which I can't find so far as transfers. I guess that the

Booth Brothers of Eastwood in the Nottinghamshire Coal Fields where suppliers of loco coal to the Brighton Rly. so they

can supply some coal to my railway too.

 

Here is a scheme for the lettering, the xxx are probably the tonnage and tare, they are unclear in the photo.

 

BoothBrothersCoal.jpg found at http://www.brightonlocoworks.co.uk/resources/chapter_4_photos/works%20old%20c.jpg

P5070447.JPG

 

 

The actual wagon design – especially the end door arrangement – is typical of the Wigan area, and rarely seen elsewhere, though there's nothing to say a few couldn't have escaped south to the Nottinghamshire coalfield...

[relaxinghobby]

Oh dear the wrong wagon.t he drawing I used just looked like an ancient wagon to me.  Thanks for pointing it out Wagonman. At least I made a good enough wagon for it to be recognised by the cognoscenti.  Now I know I will have to look out for an ancient coal wagon design from the Notts coal field region.

 

The drawing I use may have been for a Wigan Coal & Iron Co wagon so I should have worked out it was from the NW.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[relaxinghobby]

 

Continuing the grey wagon.....

 

Before assembling I had distressed the sides by carefully bending them in my fingers.

They have not returned to their original shape and now the body is assembled it has that bowed out look that many wagons developed with age and heavy use.

 

 

Upsidedown view shows slivers of plastics to fill any gaps. Behind each buffer beam are towers of plasticard rectangles to support the couplings. Couplings of choice are Bachmann cut down and glued to a strip of p-card. The brake gear, will be slightly modified from the kits original set and one side only.

 

 

Aerial view shows bowed out sides

[wagonman]

 

On the subject of Wigan area wagons, here's one I made earlier. This one is side doors only and has been "sold" to a small coal merchant down the line in Llandovery.

 

For the sake of historical accuracy I have to point out that, while Mary Jones was a real coal merchant in that town, she never owned any wagons – so far as is known. If I'm prepared to rupture the space/time continuum enough to have a non-existent railway built to serve very real lead mines further up the Towy valley, I have no compunction in expanding the scope of a local business. This is a theme that can be expanded to inordinate length...

 

The model is 7mm scale, scratch built, and in dire need of another go at the lettering which is frankly crap.

 

 

[relaxinghobby]

Hold on with the lettering, it may be prototypical, that is to save expense the coal merchant may have D.I.Y-ed it.

Any one up a wobbly ladder would sruggle to do a neat job. so it may be protoypical?