Who wants a newly tooled Class 91?

[MGR Hooper!]

Though I'm still suspicious that the 87 has disappeared from the Railroad range.

 

Paul

The Class 87 was removed from the RailRoad range because Hornby have cut back on the size of their range... Unless you were suspicious because it was put "into" the RailRoad range?

 

However thanks to a few clues from certain sources, I think we'll either see a Class 87, Class 91 or Class 92 from Hornby. If Hornby do the Class 91, I hope they don't forget about the Mk4's and DVT 

[MGR Hooper!]

From Kernow's facebook page

 

[Removed a/c]

I doubt it will be anything new, more than likely just a repaint ! 

[MGR Hooper!]

https://railsofsheffield.com/east-coast-class-91-120-electric-locomotive-wiht-3-mk4-coaches-and-1-dvt-r3365-coaches-Hornby-JJJA30998.aspx

 

A SENSIBLE PRICE FOR SUCH A TRAIN PACK!

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That seems a bit more like it. 

[tamperman36]

Slightly off the thread but Hornby have taken the 87 out of the range but left the 86, then were is the sence in that . They surely should have pulled the 86 and left the 87 that way there isn't duplication between manufacturers. The Heljan 86 has faults but its to modern standards where as Hornby's 86 dates back to the 80s, no lights, no diecast chassis, no central can motor with flywheel and that over scale toy like pantograph. At least the 87 would mean no duplication, it was a little better detail wise and if they used the Lima style pantograph it wasn't actually a bad loco.

 

If Hornby used there heads they could do a better version of the 92 also, class 60 chassis and cab interior/lights, the old Lima pantographs from the Lima 92, only real retooling would be new bogie sideframes.

 

Now would be the best time to grab the market for OHEL with the introduction of Peco and Dapol's over head catenary systems people will start to think about building more models of electrified lines.

[Removed a/c]

As far as I know the 87 was just stopped for this year. Heljan don't make the 86 anymore (I emailed them and there are no plans to re-release it either) so currently there is no duplication. 

 

 

Back to the 91 as this is really off topic  

[MGR Hooper!]

Slightly off the thread but Hornby have taken the 87 out of the range but left the 86, then were is the sence in that . They surely should have pulled the 86 and left the 87 that way there isn't duplication between manufacturers. The Heljan 86 has faults but its to modern standards where as Hornby's 86 dates back to the 80s, no lights, no diecast chassis, no central can motor with flywheel and that over scale toy like pantograph. At least the 87 would mean no duplication, it was a little better detail wise and if they used the Lima style pantograph it wasn't actually a bad loco.

Left the Class 86? The Class 86 was last made by Hornby in 2013. So how do you say they have taken out the Class 87 and not the Class 86? Seems to be more like both are out! I cannot call that duplication as Heljan's Class 86 was supposed to be a highly detailed one (they failed at that), Hornby's is older and less-detailed. I disagree about the Class 87 being better. Afterall only it's pantograph was better. Beyond that the Class 86 and Class 87 from Hornby and ex-Lima were both similarly detailed. Hornby only upgraded their motors and couplings and I think added a DCC socket.

 

If Hornby used there heads they could do a better version of the 92 also, class 60 chassis and cab interior/lights, the old Lima pantographs from the Lima 92, only real retooling would be new bogie sideframes.

(Don't take this in the wrong sense or wrong tone but sometimes all it takes is to think a wee bit more)

 

Ironic as there was no "head" put into that statement...!

 

• Firstly you cannot use a Class 60 chassis under a Class 92 body. Both locomotives may be very much similar in dimensions but under the (1:76.2 scale) hood they are different. Try putting a Hornby/Lima Class 92 body on a Hornby Class 60 chassis, you'll have a tough time. The concept works great on paper. The same setup (circuit board, lighting, motor, drive shafts and wheel arrangement) can be used. But the whole chassis block has to be re-tooled, the inside of a Class 92 is shorter (height) than a Class 60. And you do realize that both the locos have totally different underframes right? So obviously this part won't work, a solution is totally new tooling.

 

• The Lima pantographs were HO scale, they were too small. I can already hear future modelers moaning about the incorrect size and incorrect pantograph.

 

• And seriously re-tool the bogie sideframes? That's the part that could've probably been re-used...! 

 

So I take it that you're happy with a seriously incorrect model then? Because from what I've already seen others try, seen myself and read up online, those two locos are quite different. Hornby is better off doing a full re-tool, because if the past is anything to go by and if they follow your logic, no one will buy the models. Some things are better thought about 10 times before making an attempt at telling a manufacturer to put their heads together.

Edited June 12, 2016 by MGR Hooper!

[MGR Hooper!]

As far as I know the 87 was just stopped for this year. Heljan don't make the 86 anymore (I emailed them and there are no plans to re-release it either) so currently there is no duplication. 

 

 

Back to the 91 as this is really off topic

Sorry, had to set the record straight... Couldn't really agree with anything Tamperman36 said. Back on topic now!

[jjb1970]

Both the Hornby 86 and 87 can be made into very decent models and the Hornby motor bogie is an excellent unit. Whilst neither would be worth main range prices they would make good Railroad models. The Heljan 86 was a huge missed opportunity, the ultimate sign of how far it missed the mark is that despite some beautiful detail touches such as the underframe detail and an excellent mechanism my honest opinion was that its overall impression was not really much of an improvement on the antiquated Hornby model provided you stick a half decent pan on the Hornby model.

 

On the Class 91, while I can see the argument that it is of limited appeal it is also true that many of the models being tooled are of limited appeal (APT-E, Class 71, Class 74, the various Heljan pilot scheme and prototype diesels) and despite being limited to the ECML the 91s have had a reasonably long career and carried a few liveries. The argument that if it still sells then why upgrade it is valid, but that is also an attitude that led to companies going to the wall as rivals leave them behind.

[lyneux]

Left the Class 86? The Class 86 was last made by Hornby in 2013. So how do you say they have taken out the Class 87 and not the Class 86? Seems to be more like both are out! I cannot call that duplication as Heljan's Class 86 was supposed to be a highly detailed one (they failed at that), Hornby's is older and less-detailed. I disagree about the Class 87 being better. Afterall only it's pantograph was better. Beyond that the Class 86 and Class 87 from Hornby and ex-Lima were both similarly detailed. Hornby only upgraded their motors and couplings and I think added a DCC socket.

 

(Don't take this in the wrong sense or wrong tone but sometimes all it takes is to think a wee bit more)

 

Ironic as there was no "head" put into that statement...!

 

• Firstly you cannot use a Class 60 chassis under a Class 92 body. Both locomotives may be very much similar in dimensions but under the (1:72 scale) hood they are different. Try putting a Hornby/Lima Class 92 body on a Hornby Class 60 chassis, you'll have a tough time. The concept works great on paper. The same setup (circuit board, lighting, motor, drive shafts and wheel arrangement) can be used. But the whole chassis block has to be re-tooled, the inside of a Class 92 is shorter (height) than a Class 60. And you do realize that both the locos have totally different underframes right? So obviously this part won't work, a solution is totally new tooling.

 

• The Lima pantographs were HO scale, they were too small. I can already hear future modelers moaning about the incorrect size and incorrect pantograph.

 

• And seriously re-tool the bogie sideframes? That's the part that could've probably been re-used...! 

 

So I take it that you're happy with a seriously incorrect model then? Because from what I've already seen others try, seen myself and read up online, those two locos are quite different. Hornby is better off doing a full re-tool, because if the past is anything to go by and if they follow your logic, no one will buy the models. Some things are better thought about 10 times before making an attempt at telling a manufacturer to put their heads together.

 

Don't take this the wrong way JB, but maybe the reason the Hornby 60 chassis doesn't fit for you is that you are working to 1:72 scale and not 1:76.2!

[frobisher]

Then why upgrade the motor?

Because Hornby are actively trying to eliminate the ringfield motors from their range in favour of the can motors which are presumably cheaper and more easy to source.

[MGR Hooper!]

Don't take this the wrong way JB, but maybe the reason the Hornby 60 chassis doesn't fit for you is that you are working to 1:72 scale and not 1:76.2!

Corrected!

[robf]

The Hornby R3501 Virgin East Coast Train Pack - Limited Edition set appears to have disappeared from the Hornby web site this morning.  Strange as it was due out on the 1st July.

 

[MGR Hooper!]

I'm guessing it's back...

 

http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/new-for-2016/locomotives-train-packs/virgin-east-coast-train-pack.html

Edited June 21, 2016 by MGR Hooper!

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Yes, Hornby said on their facebook page they were having trouble with that listing.............whatever that means? 

[bensanchez43310]

More than anything else, I wish Hornby re-tool their Class 91 and re-release this special livery once again.....

 

 

 

Cheers!

J.

 

The temptations I have to completely give this a makeover, splendid paint job though!

[MGR Hooper!]

The temptations I have to completely give this a makeover, splendid paint job though!

Just imagine that outstanding paint job on a high spec model? Thanks to Hornby's foolishness at making this a limited edition (albeit it was a good cause) now we may never see a better quality one with this livery.

[bensanchez43310]

Maybe in good time I will mod this one, depending if I can maybe get a second one cheap or if I really have to

[steventrain]

Hattons have R3501 Virgin train pack in stock but low stock.

 

Still same picture from Hornby library image.

[MGR Hooper!]

Hattons have R3501 Virgin train pack in stock but low stock.

 

Still same picture from Hornby library image.

Not that having a proper picture is going to help Hornby sell it. 

 

In dire need of a re-tool. I still cannot get over the cost of it. Even at the usual discounted prices of the box-shifters I still don't think it's worth it.

 

Remember reading Simon Kohler's blog regarding play value. This has none of that.

[Removed a/c]

Not that having a proper picture is going to help Hornby sell it. 

 

In dire need of a re-tool. I still cannot get over the cost of it. Even at the usual discounted prices of the box-shifters I still don't think it's worth it.

 

Remember reading Simon Kohler's blog regarding play value. This has none of that.

It is crazy, Hattons have the Hornby RR 31 on for £42. I could get 4 FOUR !!! powered locos of a similar standard for that price and still have change left. I know they are heavily discounted but seriously ?? 

[MGR Hooper!]

It is crazy, Hattons have the Hornby RR 31 on for £42. I could get 4 FOUR !!! powered locos of a similar standard for that price and still have change left. I know they are heavily discounted but seriously ?? 

Hornby has certainly over-priced it!

The Class 91 is worth £60,

the DVT is worth £25 and

the coaches are worth £20. A total of £130.

 

Some might feel I've underestimated the price. But none of these models have any modern features (except the Class 91 being DCC ready). None of them have working lights or NEM couplings. This kind of pack is just decreasing in value IMHO.

[Legend]

I quite like the set but there is no way I'm paying that. It's a nice to have but not at that price. However another disincentive is the lack of additional coaches to make a bigger rake . I'm not interested in just a 4 car one

[MGR Hooper!]

I quite like the set but there is no way I'm paying that. It's a nice to have but not at that price. However another disincentive is the lack of additional coaches to make a bigger rake . I'm not interested in just a 4 car one

Quite odd as they usually make matching coaches. I wonder who made all these decisions this time. I would gladly bought a set and probably detailed it myself using off-the-shelf parts and scratch built parts.

 

But there's no way that I'd put that much money down. There's so many RailRoad models that are better in value than this.