S&DJR Ground Signals

[RailWest]

By BR days it would appear that most of the earlier S&DJR ground signals had been replaced by the SR standard ‘half-disc’ pattern, with a few exceptions:-

1. A small number of Stevens ‘flap’ signals, some of which appeared to have survived until the very end of passenger working.
2. Those of the ‘miniature semaphore’ type which were installed specifically with ‘yellow’ arms
3 At least two (at Evercreech Jcn North) of the ‘miniature sempahore’ type with red arms
4. At least three (two at MSN and one at Highbridge) of the BR(WR) ‘full disc’ pattern.

So, two questions please:-

A. Exactly how many of the Stevens ‘flap’ type survived post-1948 until such time as either their controlling signal-box or its last ground signal was abolished, and where were they all?
B. Any other ‘exceptions’ known, and if so where?

Photo evidence especially welcome ! :-)

[geoffers]

Not quite answering your question but as far as I can remember all the ground signals at Bailey Gate were the SR discs. 

[JZ]

Best thing to do would be to examine as many S&D books as you can. Unfortunately Ivo Peters tended to photograph the train rather than the infrastructure, but a few can be picked out.

[RailWest]

That has already been done, plus many other photographic collections :-) But the problem is that signals in general, and the ground signals in particular, tended to be incidental to the main subject of the pictures. On rare occasions the odd 'gem' appears somewhere, so it is always possible that other photos exists 'out there somewhere', but often the holder of the photo doesn't consider the content of much importance until someone asks a specific question such as I am doing now.

[phil_sutters]

None of the ground signals in my Dad's S&D photos appears to be of the flap variety. If it is of interest I have tagged all the ground signals so that they can be seen at http://www.ipernity.com/tag/philsutters/keyword/4333786

[tingleytim]

I'm very ignorant about the different sorts of ground signals but the postings have prompted me to look through my S&D shots to see if any show up. Hope some of the following might be of some use Chris.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tingleytim/11929556644/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tingleytim/11929071333/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tingleytim/11929654666/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tingleytim/11775331335/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tingleytim/6120507028/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tingleytim/16302903714/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tingleytim/16737566998/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tingleytim/16302803014/

Is the raised ground signal at Templecombe in the second last unusual?

[bécasse]

 

 

Is the raised ground signal at Templecombe in the second last unusual?

Not as far as I can see, they weren't an uncommon SR feature and could be found on both lattice (as here) and rail-built posts. There were yellow-arm examples too, and presumably originally red-arm ones, although I think that the only example that I have actually seen a picture of was non-standard.

[RailWest]

Indeed not, there was also an elevated one at Radstock East, though it was in a spot rarely photographed and IIRC I've only even seen one view of it - and I've forgotten where <damn>!  And even more elevated, there were a couple up on a bracket at Templcombe (No3) Jcn.

[RailWest]

Ah now, what interests me Phil is the shot of 41307 + 41283 at Highbridge on 1-1-1966...

 

On the left at the end of the Down platform was a 2-doll bracket signal, yet the RH doll + arm seem to have vanished completely. I don't think they're just hidden by smoke, is there some sort of white-out in the top LH corner of that picture perhaps? Also, near to the bottom of that post there were two flap signals side-by-side, at least still in 1965 which is the latest close-up picture I'd seen previous to this one. The LH one seems still to be there, but the RH one is less obvious. Any possibility of an enlargement sometime perhaps please?????

[phil_sutters]

Ah now, what interests me Phil is the shot of 41307 + 41283 at Highbridge on 1-1-1966...

 

On the left at the end of the Down platform was a 2-doll bracket signal, yet the RH doll + arm seem to have vanished completely. I don't think they're just hidden by smoke, is there some sort of white-out in the top LH corner of that picture perhaps? Also, near to the bottom of that post there were two flap signals side-by-side, at least still in 1965 which is the latest close-up picture I'd seen previous to this one. The LH one seems still to be there, but the RH one is less obvious. Any possibility of an enlargement sometime perhaps please?????

I must apologise for not replying earlier Chris. I hadn't spotted that the thread had continued. I have looked closely at the shot and am fairly sure that it is steam or smoke. The further loco is almost hidden by it. I think that the right-hand signal that can be seen in a shot in 1962 - 

 

and again in 1965 from the other direction 

 

is still there. It is on a taller post than its neighbour, so disappears further into the clouds!

[phil_sutters]

By BR days it would appear that most of the earlier S&DJR ground signals had been replaced by the SR standard ‘half-disc’ pattern, with a few exceptions:-

 

1. A small number of Stevens ‘flap’ signals, some of which appeared to have survived until the very end of passenger working.

2. Those of the ‘miniature semaphore’ type which were installed specifically with ‘yellow’ arms

3 At least two (at Evercreech Jcn North) of the ‘miniature sempahore’ type with red arms

4. At least three (two at MSN and one at Highbridge) of the BR(WR) ‘full disc’ pattern.

 

So, two questions please:-

 

A. Exactly how many of the Stevens ‘flap’ type survived post-1948 until such time as either their controlling signal-box or its last ground signal was abolished, and where were they all?

B. Any other ‘exceptions’ known, and if so where?

 

Photo evidence especially welcome ! :-)

Again not answering the main question -  there is a very nice colour shot of one of the Evercreech Junction north miniature red-armed ground signals in Michael Welch's Somerset & Dorset Sunset - page 53

[phil_sutters]

While looking for something completely different - as usual - I came across two photos of what is described as 'A Steven's throw-face shunt signal' at Bridgwater. One is in a view from the north-east of the station and the other is a close-up. It is noted that this signal is/was one of the SDRT's exhibits at Washford. The photos are in Mitchell & Smith's Burnham to Evercreech Junction - Middleton Press.

[phil_sutters]

Ah now, what interests me Phil is the shot of 41307 + 41283 at Highbridge on 1-1-1966...

 

On the left at the end of the Down platform was a 2-doll bracket signal, yet the RH doll + arm seem to have vanished completely. I don't think they're just hidden by smoke, is there some sort of white-out in the top LH corner of that picture perhaps? Also, near to the bottom of that post there were two flap signals side-by-side, at least still in 1965 which is the latest close-up picture I'd seen previous to this one. The LH one seems still to be there, but the RH one is less obvious. Any possibility of an enlargement sometime perhaps please?????

Another apology - in my haste to find the right-hand doll & arm, I obviously overlooked your enquiry about the flap signals. I have looked closely at the photo in close-up and really can't make out any signals at the bottom of the post. This shot from January 66 shows a closer view and again I can't discern any signals down there.

 

http://www.ipernity.com/doc/philsutters/26460307/sizes/o

 

In Colin Maggs' The last years of the S&D there is a clear view of the back of the bracket signal the month before and again is isn't possible to make out any signals down at ground level.

[RailWest]

phil_sutters, on 19 Sept 2016 - 00:35, said:

While looking for something completely different - as usual - I came across two photos of what is described as 'A Steven's throw-face shunt signal' at Bridgwater. One is in a view from the north-east of the station and the other is a close-up. It is noted that this signal is/was one of the SDRT's exhibits at Washford. The photos are in Mitchell & Smith's Burnham to Evercreech Junction - Middleton Press.

Not quite  ....the caption notes that a signal of that type is at Washford (believed to be the former Highbridge Loco No 23, as the only such signal known on the S&DJR with slotting gear).

[Blandford1969]

I can add a small red semaphore at the Highbridge end of West Pennard. Will see what else I can find. Edit there is also one at the Evercreech end too,

[phil_sutters]

Not quite  ....the caption notes that a signal of that type is at Washford (believed to be the former Highbridge Loco No 23, as the only such signal known on the S&DJR with slotting gear).

You are, of course, quite right - sloppy of me!

[RailWest]

I can add a small red semaphore at the Highbridge end of West Pennard. Will see what else I can find. Edit there is also one at the Evercreech end too,

Interesting, I'm not sure I recall those - are there any published photos please? Are you sure you are not confusing them with the two yellow semaphore shunts which did exist there?

[Blandford1969]

Interesting, I'm not sure I recall those - are there any published photos please? Are you sure you are not confusing them with the two yellow semaphore shunts which did exist there?

I have only seen the rear of the one at the Evercreech end, but have recently scanned the other end which is a nice colour slide. Will dig it out and post.

[RailWest]

I have only seen the rear of the one at the Evercreech end, but have recently scanned the other end which is a nice colour slide. Will dig it out and post.

Thanks.....